MBNA/Restons claimform - old A+L Card **WON+COSTS**

[bazaar]

Hang on a MO, this new ****** is speaking of para 11?? I thought it was 10? So methinks maybe Bouffont has cocked up by trying this bit on.

[fairbyblue]

para 10 refers to terminating agreemnt when they want to

para 11 refers to altering the agreement

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello FB!

 

If sent via email, do a Right Click, Properties, and copy the email header to prove when this email was routed to you.

 

It'll give you the evidence to show the email/letter was sent this evening, so the lack of date on it will not matter.

 

Indeed, do the same for all emails sent at this late stage, ready to enlighten the Judge as to what games this bunch have been playing the night before Court.

 

This is intimidation of a Litigant in Person. The email headers are the proof that will time stamp the time/date of transmission.

 

You can check the sending IP address out via the web to see who owns or runs the Server concerned.

 

Welcome to RIPE.NET

 

Or use these free tools provided by Demon:

 

Internet tools

 

Cheers,

BRW

[banker_rhymes_with]

Waves at Guest!

[car2403]

You can ask for an adjournment due to the late submission of this evidence. As a LIP, you are severely disadvantaged by this, at this late, stage.

 

On the other hand, you've been given lots of good advice already, so I can't think of anything else that I can add, should you decide you want to go ahead with this tomorrow.

 

Site team aware.

[fairbyblue]

Well bugger me. The t and c they have served on me tonight only starts from para 4 so i look back to the one the produced at the strike out (where the judge said i was contending it was not the original)

the one wher it states they can termniate at will para 10 and alter the agreement para 11.

 

These are still not the original t and c cos the amount on original for late payments is £25 and on these its £12

 

So all they have done is binned para 1 to 3 of the current t and cs and said par 4 to 16 was the in the orginal.

 

Now the percentage rates are different 16.9% on the 1st and now 27.9% on the second set of t and c

 

so they have just crow barred on the current t and cs but they cannot of been on the original CCA

[fairbyblue]

heres a couple of emails from me old mate bouchers now i dont seem to understand as they do contradict, one is saying forget the termniation and they other says it didnt

 

5/8/09 at 1746

Without Prejudice

I refer to your recent telephone conversation with my colleague.

The Bank will not agree to merely accept £1601.39 in settlement of this account.

The executed credit agreement – containing the prescribed terms – is within the Court papers and it is enforceable. I am not sure why you have been advised it is not. Are you able to explain why the agreement does not comply with the CCA?

It is clearly open to the Bank as a creditor to serve a new default notice and claim the full balance. If the earlier default notice did not comply with the CCA or regulations made under it as you allege then the agreement could not have been terminated and the fact you have received correspondence indicating the contrary is immaterial. In any event termination of the account does not mean that the liability disappears.

The Bank is still prepared to reach a sensible conclusion on this matter.

Yours

today 6/8/09 at 12.30

The Bank cannot accept only £1601.93.

You will note in your terms and conditions par 10 that the Bank has the right to contractually terminate the agreement at any time - if it does so you are liable to repay the outstanding balance. In other words the Bank does not have to serve a default notice which is only required if the Bank wants to bring the agreement to an end because of a failure to pay arrears or some other breach.

Paragraph 10 allows the Bank to terminate the agreement for any reason i.e. not a reason based on a breach of the agreement.

In other words the Bank does not have to rely on the default notice.

The Bank will prepared to settle amicably by agreeing a total figure which is less than the balance but cannot accept what has been offered thus far.

 

and tonight 6/8/09 at 19.46

 

We enclose by way of service witness statement which we will ask

permission to rely on tomorrow.

Section 87 of the CCA states that a default notice is required where the

creditor wishes to terminate the agreement and claim the amount owed "by

reason of nay breach by the debtor...."

You will be aware that clause 10 of the Bank's terms and conditions

allows our client to terminate the agreement at any time and can do so

without having to demonstrate that you have breached any terms of the

agreement. It can terminate the agreement without serving a default

notice - which means that any alleged defect with the default notice is

irrelevant as it was not needed in the first place as our client will

rely on its contractual right to terminate the agreement. Your amended

defence states that the agreement is terminated.

 

[car2403]

Now the percentage rates are different 16.9% on the 1st and now 27.9% on the second set of t and c

 

so they have just crow barred on the current t and cs but they cannot of been on the original CCA

 

Oh dear indeed.

 

If the APR applied to the Account is greater than the rate stated in the agreement, then the prescribed term is misstated (in this case greater than the allowance made in the regulations for misstated APR) meaning that the prescribed term is wrong, so it's unenforceable as a result.

 

[atwozee]

S173 of the CCA 1974 would scupper their argument. To terminate the agreement at any time would be inconsistent and in conflict with the true meaning of the act anf therefore the term would be void as far as the act is concerned.

Where is the credit if a credit agreement can be unilaterally terminated by the creditor at anytime?

[supasnooper]

Hi fb,

 

Another pile of Shine your buckles with Brasso from restons !!

 

I really am amazed they try to get away with this.

 

As BRW has sagely pointed out, this is another effort by these sols to frighten you into folding before the day.

 

I can only advise you to stay calm.

 

Do NOT worry about what they have just sent ( because it is utter garbage, MBNA must follow UK law, not United States Maryland State anything goes law)

 

and look forward to smashing them to bits in court.

 

 

Further, what they have just sent will incense a Judge who will want to know why after all this time restons\MBNA have decided to file another WS so close to the hearing.

[AA99]

Is it right a LIP gets £9.25 per hour cos with 3 hearings,travelling time and 14 letters @ £12 each and 50hours preparation its upto £741.75 costs. (They wont pay that surely if it goes my way)

 

Yup, another cagger in another thread easily got £500

 

What sound advice you have got !!!!!!!!!!! Go for it FB

[Rhia]

FairbyBlue have just come hotfoot from a tip off from BRW re your case. I have just PM'd you with some info which is from a case I had against MBNA and won.

 

Car is quite correct request an adjournment they should not hit you with this stuff at this hour.

My goodness they must be very, very worried indeed to try such a lowdown tactic. PM me back if you need a bit more info.

[pompeyfaith]

Blimey what planet are they on, they must be really wobbling to be putting the frighteners on you at this hour.

 

Keep going FBB I can feel another win coming along.

 

PF

[pompeyfaith]

FBB,

 

Get there early tomorrow and make sure you see the duty solicitor.

 

PF

[fairbyblue]

Blimey what planet are they on, they must be really wobbling to be putting the frighteners on you at this hour.

 

Keep going FBB I can feel another win coming along.

 

PF

 

I keep thinking the are going to put my windows in and slash my tyres just to make sure !!!!

 

Lets see what tomorrow brings cos I wavered the other day to get this monkey off my back but now I'm 100% commited.

 

Bring it on !!!

[ifoughtthelaw]

Just read your thread FB - I can't offer much (except maybe a mop to wipe the floor with them) as just starting down the road with this lot - but some great sound advice from others on here.

 

Wishing you the very best for tomorrow - hold your nerve FB - you're almost there!

 

Nothing more than cheap tricks by a cheap outfit. It just goes to show how you can't trust 'em.

 

Good luck

 

IFTL x

[pompeyfaith]

YUP the Balls in your court by the looks of it. just be sure to hit when you fire !!!!!!!!!

 

PF

[summerbreeze]

I wish you well FBB

 

I was petrified 2 weeks ago at my SJ hearing though not with these muppets . I hope you get a great Judge who listens to you.

[diddydicky]

and as a salutory warning to others

 

NEVER use your e mail or fax to deal with your creditors

 

snail mail only!!

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello FB!

 

Was the last Witness Statement signed by the Witness? Only asking, because I was wondering just how many people they had working late on this! I have to question if the latest Witness was actually there to be a witness to their own Witness Statement?

 

It's all very strange...I think you can smell the fear, or at least you can smell something.

 

I think the key now is to raise an immediate objection to their intimidating behaviour straight away. Present the Judge with a single document containing all of their late submissions and emails, along with email header details to show sending IP, time of transmission and routing details from their Server to your PC.

 

Leave out those emails protected by a WITHOUT PREJUDICE statement, and just forget they exists for now, but do take copies of them in your rucksack of goodies, just in case the enemy elect to bend the rules and start producing copies in Court with the WITHOUT PREJUDICE bit missing.

 

See how the Judge reacts to your complaint and, if the Judge is already looking hostile towards you, then it may be an idea to request an adjournment so that you can be allowed to consider the new weight of material that has landed on your Mouse Mat this fine evening.

 

This lot don't come across as being particularly nice, organised or fair, so be on your guard for dirty tricks. Also, expect them to slither up to you outside of the Court room to try and spook you, or engage in small talk where they can mention an offer just so they can then walk into Court to say you just admitted the debt a few seconds ago outside.

 

There are only four words you want them to say to you outside of Court, and they are:

 

We wish to discontinue.

If they say anything else, make it clear you do not feel able to discuss anything now so close to Court, have a nice day.

 

Assuming the hearing does go ahead, then the key there is to stay very organised, listen carefully to anything said, and do not be afraid to raise your hand if something is not clear or cannot be heard.

 

Make notes all the time, and jot down things you want to say when your time to speak comes up. When you do get a chance to speak, do so very carefully, and very slowly if needed to grab the Judge's attention, and to make sure you get across what you want to say. Trot out key things when the opportunity presents itself, but also try to stay flexible so you can respond to anything they throw at you in an unexpected order.

 

Watch out for any Ambush attempts, such as presenting new material on the day, and new bundles of case history, legislation and Skeleton Arguments not seen beforehand. Object if they try that, and demand an adjournment if it is a significant problem and they are trying to overload you with new bumf.

 

Read Surfaceagentx20's last few Posts on the Tale of a Dodgy Default Notice - Further Discussion Thread and digest all that he says WRT serving a 2nd Default Notice after Termination.

 

Get some kip, then eat breakfast to top up your blood sugar levels and to ensure you are not dehydrated from the build up to this. Try and go for a walk to shake out the cobwebs, and then clear your mind ready for battle.

 

Best of luck.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[pompeyfaith]

i could not agree more with what BRW has said above follow that and im sure u will have a head as high as everest

[Alphageek]

There are only four words you want them to say to you outside of Court, and they are:

 

We wish to discontinue

 

 

Excellent advice from BRW - a friendly court usher said to me a while ago that "it's the only thing the government hasn't made compulsory yet."

 

I enquired of him "What's that?"

 

"Talking to the other side!" he said with a glint in his eye.

[pompeyfaith]

oh and when u are done with them it will be time to report them to the SRA just 4 good messure because even if it brings no result at least there abuse of process has been brought to the SRA attention

Edited August 6, 2009 by pompeyfaith

[Rhia]

BRW, as always, has given you sound advice and there's not much anyone can add except just breathe and keep that antennae going for shifty tricks.

And Pompeyfaith is correct, afterwards report them to the SRA. I think we do too little complaining to some of these toothless bodies. One complaint they can shelve but one after another is too many to ignore.

 

May the force be with you!

[fairbyblue]

I'm ready after a rubbish nights sleep.

 

Keep calm, dont enter into 'chats' with them, all i need to hear is 'We wish to discontinue'

 

If it does go ahead, kick off about late stage of introduction of statements then get back on track with 2 defective dN's and 'questionable cca'

 

Hope dianne from MBNA is there, if she failes to attend then they are snookered.