Locked in car park

[Patma]

TLD,

Have spoken to Fred and he's phoning the solicitor who represented him at the police station tomorrow, to ask for full information.

What he has just refers to there being a statement by the college and 3 witness statements, as well as the CCTV.

Interestingly Fred specifically asked when these witness statements would be made available to him at the directions hearing and the Lyons Davidson person said they would not be relying on them, so their disclosure was not ordered.

in their reply to Fred's cpr 18 request for "Copies of all witness statements against me by Plymouth College of Art members", Lyons Davidson's response is

"Statements will be presented upon completion."

Edited August 28, 2009 by Patma

[Patma]

Thankyou so much for your good wishes,0623. I hope everyone who reads this thread is encouraged to stand up for themselves if they too are being unfairly treated. There's is plenty of help and support here , so no-one who joins CAG need battle alone.

That makes us sound like the 3 musketeers :lol:LOL

[Toulose LeDebt]

TLD,

Have spoken to Fred and he's phoning the solicitor who represented him at the police station tomorrow, to ask for full information.

What he has just refers to there being a statement by the college and 3 witness statements, as well as the CCTV.

Interestingly Fred specifically asked when these witness statements would be made available to him at the directions hearing and the LD person said they would not be relying on them, so their disclosure was not ordered.

in their reply to Fred's cpr 18 request for "Copies of all witness statements against me by PCAD members", LD's response is

"Statements will be presented upon completion."

 

Strange why they would not want evidence which was good enough to convict Fred upon used in a related civil claim. They seem to be relying on the Judge just accepting their word that not only was the barrier damaged at all but that it was specifically damaged by Fred.

 

IMO there is nothing in evidence to prove the barrier was damaged at the time claimed or the extent of this damage as the 'quote' is challengeable on the date alone let alone whatever information is supplied by the manufacturer.

The CCTV is the only evidence that Fred damaged the barrier and we all know what it actually shows.

An invoice for a new barrier 14 days after the incident strictly speaking to me proves nothing.

A spurious quote for repair dated 19 days after the incident and 5 days after the barrier was replaced strictly speaking to me proves nothing.

 

It will be interesting to see if the Police version of the cctv is another angle, it might help shed some light on the mysterious appearing sign issue too if it was from the other side of the track.

 

(I think we need to put what was in last weekends email into action this week, I'll sharpen them up a bit tonight).

 

There is little or no attempt made by the claimant to actually prove their case, and I find that a little odd and a touch disconcerting.:eek:

 

Patma the quote and the invoice can you tell if they carry the same signature?

[Patma]

It will be interesting to see if the Police version of the cctv is another angle, it might help shed some light on the mysterious appearing sign issue too if it was from the other side of the track.

The two sides of the car park look quite different, so I don't see how they could claim their sign was in a different place, but yes maybe the police CCTV footage was taken from the other side, as Fred feels sure it was different.

Patma the quote and the invoice can you tell if they carry the same signature?

Hmmm I don't know but I'll have a look and get back to you on that. It's a good question.

(I think we need to put what was in last weekends email into action this week, I'll sharpen them up a bit tonight).

 

Ok excellent thanks TLD, Please just shout if I can help at all.

[Toulose LeDebt]

Was thinking if the other cctv camera was angled towards the intercom rather than the barrier mechanism (ie the other side of the road) it might well show the 'no parking' sign on the wall of the garage with the white door beside the intercom. That would be pretty good proof the 'contact security' sign wasn't there when they claim it was.

[Patma]

Ah yes good thinking.

[Patma]

Patma the quote and the invoice can you tell if they carry the same signature?

They seem different as far as I can tell, TLD

[Toulose LeDebt]

ta Patma it's not a case buster I was just crossing i's and dotting t's or whatever they say....:grin:

[Toulose LeDebt]

Patma you've got mail.

[Patma]

You've excelled yourself TLD, thankyou for that. It's all proceeding

Just a little update on the insurance fraud bureau issue. They are very interested after a further chat with Fred and have requested the dossier of evidence, which Fred of course is delighted to send them.

[Toulose LeDebt]

No problem was pleasantly surprised to see that some very clear case law exists on that particular matter and they can't exactly argue that it doesn't because it's lifted straight from the CPS guidance on these matters.

[Patma]

I thought that quoting the case law was the icing on the cake.

[Patma]

Just sent you a short email, TLD

[Lapchien66]

subbing

[Patma]

You have mail, TLD:D

[Toulose LeDebt]

Patma has (without disclosure from the claimant) managed to identify the manufacturer of the barrier involved in the original incident.

 

EDITED - DELETED PARAGRAPH (sorry bryan)

 

A standard supply and fit price for a complete brand new barrier of the type involved is under £2000 from a manufacturer authorised dealer.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Toulose LeDebt

[Toulose LeDebt]

{It also appears that the louvre vent was missing from the college car park barrier, this would of course permit the ingress of water and dirt to the barrier mechanism}.

Proof of poor maintenance?

[Annoying Twit]

Just when you think things can't get any more strange .....

[Patma]

What was that about truth being stranger than fiction?

I have written in length to the manufacturer, and have asked amongst other things if Universal Security (UK) Ltd are an authorised repairer or service agent for this company. It will be interesting to see the manufacturers response to the claims that the barrier was written offf because 'the motor casing had sheared due to excessive force'.

That was an excellent idea to write to the manufacturer, TLD . I must admit I didn't understand the significance of it being hydraulic until you explained it, so hopefully when you get a reply you'll be able to explain the details in words of one syllable for the technically challenged like me.

[banker_rhymes_with]

...hopefully when you get a reply you'll be able to explain the details in words of one syllable for the technically challenged like me.

 

...and don't forget the Judge!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[Patma]

That's very enlightening, thankyou for the technophobes tutorial TLD and as BRW reminded us it could come in very useful for explaining the system to the judge as well.

Now think of the quote and think of the 'engineers' explanation and justification for condemning the old barrier at Freds expense. Then run through sec 17 TFA 1968 again and you will begin to see why the Police changed their tune after 20 mins yesterday.

Yes the penny is dropping.

I guess you mean statements like " I am pleased to provide a costing to repair the damaged motor gear and linkage"?.......

and " The main problem which forced the barrier beyond economical repair was that the motor casing had sheared due to excessive force and misuse"?

couldn't possibly have applied to this type of system.....big ooops!

These statements were made in letters from Universal Security. Oh dear someone has been weaving a tangled web!

[Patma]

If it does get nasty for the claimants I can see the college pinning whatever blame they can upon USUK ltd., it will be important to establish whether the college are responsible for monitoring and producing the cctv or whether that is controlled by a 'third party security company'.

USUK do provide maintenance coverage, so it's certainly possible they are/have been responsible for the security at the college. This is from their site...

Universal Security offer 24 hour maintenance coverage of Intruder Alarms, CCTV, Access Control and Fire Systems giving you peace of mind that your security is never compromised. Whether we have installed your security system or not we can provide a cost effective solution to your servicing needs 24/7/365.

Universal Security - Home

[car2403]

If anyone insists on posting serious allegations on this thread, please contact site admin (... admin @ consumeractiongroup.co.uk ...) before posting. The site cannot carry allegations that do not have a provable basis, nor can we carry libellous comments in either case.

[Patma]

TLD spring cleaning needed:D

[Patma]

You have an email, TLD:)