Legal Notice of Breach of Contract...

[skyelet]

Ello,

 

On 16/7/08 i recieved this whilst visiting the hospital for a routine maternity scan. I was parked on double yellow lines, but ensured I was not blocking any patheways, entrances, exits, other cars etc...

 

The reason for parking on double yellow lines was because the car parks ( 2 out of 3 of them ) were full. The third, and also the largest, was out of use due to a broken barrier. Noted because of the traffic cones, tape and other regalia on the entrance to the car park. The other 2 car parks were not letting any more cars pull in, as they had red lights to indicate that they were full.

 

I did arrive to my appointment with 15mins to allow for parking and walking to the clinic, so its not like i was in a rush, you will note that the ticket was issued at 10.55am, my appointment was 10.50 and i arrived back to my car at 11.15.

 

I have already written to the appeals board once to state the reasons that I was parked on double yellows, stating the above facts, and they are now sending solicitors letters demanding payments. I have been away on holiday and returned to find this in the pile of letters.

 

I originally sent my appeal on the 21.07.08 and also gave them 14 days in which to reply otherwise I would consider the PCN withdrawn.

 

You will also note that the original PCN was issued under section 5. Vehicle parked in a space designated for registered disabled "blue badge" holders but a valid blue badge was not displayed. However, the appeal decline states that they are charging me on the basis i was parked on double yellows.

 

Thier response doesnt state a particular reason why my appeal was unsuccessful, it just states that I was on double yellows... so i feel that I shouldnt have to pay at all considering they dont even know what they are charging me for. I do have a valid point about the car park being unoperational on the day tho. Also they reduced the time to pay from 14 days to 7 days on the appeal reply...

 

What should i do now? wait for it to go to court? or reply to this letter to the solicitors?

 

 

 

 

Letter recieved in appeal ( Typed because scanner packed in )

 

Dear Mr "Skyelets OH",

 

AINTREE UNIVERSITY HOSPITALS NHS FOUNDATION TRUST v YOURSELF

AMOUNT OUTSTANDING: £50.00

 

We refer to the above matter. We can confirm that our client's Appeal Board had now met and considered your appeal. We regret to advise you that your Appeal was unsuccessful on the grounds that you were parked on double yellow lines. In the circumstances, please let us have your remittance in the sum of £25.00 made payable to Trethowans [the solicitors with which the paper is headed].

 

In the event that your remittance is not recieved within 7 days of the date of this letter, the full amount will become payable i.e. £50.00. In the absence of a response, proceedings will be prepared and issued without further reference to you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

( illegible signature and no name printed )

Edited September 27, 2008 by skyelet
inserted images

[Barnsley Boy]

You have already written to them too much. Ignore everything from them from now on. They allege a breach of contract. Do you remember signing a contract? Do you remember verbally agreeing to a contract or even realise that a contract was being proposed? Even if you did breach a contract, the trust would only be able to claim damages, based on loss. In this case it would be difficult to see that any loss has actually been incurred. The truth is that, away from actual roads, double yellow lines mean diddly squat. They are just paint - no legal significance. An NHS trust has no legal authority to fine you, they are assuming powers they simply don't have. You may get further letters but they will just contain empty threats, nothing will come of it.

 

Some background reading - in this case the NHS trust is acting as a private parking company.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/65341-private-parking-companies-charges.html

[Al27]

Remedy for breach of contract is a repayment of losses incurred.

 

You do not owe them £50 - you owe them £0.

 

This is just a private company who have used the NHS Brand Guidelines to creat an invoice which looks 'official' in a ruse to make you pay up.

 

Trethowans are well known here. Just ignore them and any further paperwork. It's a [problem].

 

The appeals procedure is also fake - no private company will turn down money.

[skyelet]

gotcha, thanks people

[MrShed]

Am I missing something obvious, but isnt parking on double yellow lines an offence dealt with by the relevant authorities, NOT a PPC?

[crem]

Am I missing something obvious, but isnt parking on double yellow lines an offence dealt with by the relevant authorities, NOT a PPC?

 

 

I believe skyelet is referring to double yellow lines painted within the confines of the hospital grounds and therefore only there as part of the PPC enforcement of the car park regs. As the DY is not therefore covered by the council it carries the same legal weight as the normal white bay markings or the yellow disabled bays painted within the private car park. i.e. None.

[MrShed]

I get it - in that case it is even less enforceable than other PPC tickets I would imagine, as I'll bet their "Terms" dont say you cannot park on double yellows...?

[crem]

I get it - in that case it is even less enforceable than other PPC tickets I would imagine.....

 

How can it be less enforceable than not enforceable at all?

[MrShed]

True but you know what I mean

 

An extra argument, if you will

[couldthisbereal2]

Regarding contracts and loss etc.

 

If I visit the hospital and it says £5 per hour to park in advance or flat charge of £80 per 24hrs if I have not prebooked .

I turn up and park my car for 1hr (unbooked).

 

If I then get a bill through the post for £80, do I have to pay it ?

[Barnsley Boy]

Privity of contract comes into this. How do the hospital know that the "I" who parked the car is the same as the "I" who gets the bill through the post. The PPCs assume that the driver is always the same as the registered keeper. This is not always the case, it is not even mostly the case.

 

The wording of the signage and the visibility is also very important. Most wording is rubbish and simply does not establish a contract. In answer to your specific question, if I got an unsolicited invoice from one of these cowboys through the post, I'd ignore it completely.

[lamma]

what is the name of the issuing "company" ? better yet post pictures of all of the invoice - suitably washed of personal details.

[skyelet]

okay im just gonna ignore it.... does this also mean that in the future i can park on douible yellows and ignore any tickets i get within the hospital grounds.... i mean for arguments sake... not that im gonna make a habit of it lol. prefer the actual carpark which is closet to the antenatal clinic itself

[skyelet]

okay today i recieved a court claim form, trethowans are now claiming £130.92 from me for unpaid breach parking reg. notice.....

 

 

50.92 amount claimed, court fees 30.00 and solicitors fees £50......

 

Thier particulars of claim are as follows...

 

Unpaid breach of parking re, notice.

 

Details

Ticket Number XXXXXXXXXX

Date : 16/7/08

Due Date: 16/7/08

Amount : £50

 

And the claimant further claim interest persuant to s.69 of the CCA 1984 at a rate of 8.00% per annum from the date of the invioce to the date herien namely the sum of £0.92 and continuing interest at a daily rate of £0.011 pernce per day until judgement or sooner payment.

 

 

Obviously i know i need to defend this now...

 

Any advice is obviously helpful, and urgently as i have 14 days to respond

[lamma]

is there a case number of the form ? first order of business is check with the court that the papers are real. while waiting for that, post up pictures of the claim - suitably washed of your personal details.

[skyelet]

yes, its a real form.... and ive typed out the details above

 

its been sealed by the bournemouth county court seal and court claim number on

[skyelet]

its a photocopy of the standard N1, with all the other relevant forms enclosed, one for admit, one for defend... etc...

[lamma]

and thats it ? "Unpaid breach of parking re, notice."

[skyelet]

yep, Particulars of Claim....

 

 

Unpaid breach of parking re, notice.

 

Details

Ticket Number XXXXXXXXXX

Date : 16/7/08

Due Date: 16/7/08

Amount : £50

 

And the claimant further claim interest persuant to s.69 of the CCA 1984 at a rate of 8.00% per annum from the date of the invioce to the date herien namely the sum of £0.92 and continuing interest at a daily rate of £0.011 pernce per day until judgement or sooner payment.

 

[Zamzara]

Regarding contracts and loss etc.

 

If I visit the hospital and it says £5 per hour to park in advance or flat charge of £80 per 24hrs if I have not prebooked .

I turn up and park my car for 1hr (unbooked).

 

If I then get a bill through the post for £80, do I have to pay it ?

 

I would say it depends on the intention of the parties. Is the person parking making an informed choice to pay £80, or is the intention to catch them out? There are also the issues of consideration, privity, and that the NHS is required to be free at the point of use.

[skyelet]

still im stuck in the same situation, if anyone could help me put together a good defence, it would be very much appreciated....

 

thanks

[skyelet]

heres the docs ive been sent...

 

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1448/page1an0.jpg

 

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6147/page2le5.jpg

 

 

along with a few forms, one to admit all, one to defend/counterclaim, and a few others....

 

a swift response would be appreciated as i have only 9 days or so to submit my defence...

[angry_driver]

It does seem to me that this is alot of hastle over the original amount of £25.00 - Have you got nothing better to do that goto court and spend all the time/hastle over such a small amount ??

 

You know that you shouldnt have parked there - This is not that you were caught out by some hidden signage at midnight ... They put double yellow lines (I know they are worthless from a legal point, but to most people they mean no parking) for reasons such as traffic management and sometimes to ensure ambulances and other emergency vehicles can pass and not for someone who couldnt be bothered to drive around a little more to find a space.

[skyelet]

seriously read my OP before you start calling me lazy. and yes, £25 is alot to me considering im living on a minus after incomings/outgoings at the moment due to pregnancy related illness and extended maternity leave...

 

i didnt ask to go to court, and there is certainly no way im travelling to bournemouth to attend...

[angry_driver]

With respect I did read you post ... you were going to a clinic got onsite to park and no spaces so instead of waiting for someone to go, or drive around a little more or park off site and walk you decided to park on the double yellow lines.

 

You were having a 'routine scan' - you're pregnant not disabled .. If you were a few mins late for your scan they would still have accomodated you (as I presume other patients would have the same trouble).

 

I do not wish to get into a slanging match, I was just pointing out that the chances are when this goes to a hearing you will probarly have just given birth and have all the hastle/time this WILL take, with a new born and all the stresses that brings .. over £25

 

I know you didnt ask for it to goto court, but if you didnt pay then they would take it to court ... its obvious - where else are they going to take it to recover the charge they beleive is due.

 

You may win / You may lose - No one on here can give you that guarentee.

 

If you win then you pay them nothing, as you will be on maternity leave so you will only be able to claim your travel to court and nothing for the time/effort you put into sending docs off / doing research (as small claims are limited to loss of earnings ONLY).

 

If you lose, it would have cost you lots more money .. the CCJ will be on you for 6yrs (as I doubt you will be able to pay the amount within 28-days for it to be removed).

 

All for £25.00 which you could have paid in instalments to them - a lot less hastle than the position you find yourself in now !