Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

What is the situation with bailiffs and cars owned by blue badge holders?


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4761 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

the simple answer is yes. but it is more complicated than that so it may be a no in this case. need details of the issue, location (town or city name), details of the parking, time line, name of council, stuff like that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To clamp or remove a disabled persons car to a pound is not only against the guidelines but also a breach of their human rights & therefore unlawful

 

They can however remove it to an easy disability accessible adjacent location where it is not causing on obstruction

 

But then we are talking about an industry which gives not one jot for the rules or regulation accept were it favours them of course

Edited by JonCris
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a theoretical question.

 

We often get disabled clients who receive PCNs and then subsequently have bailiffs chase them.

 

Chris; what guidelines?

 

I believe the Guidance quoted refers to the towing of vehicles while actually in contravention. In your 'theoretical' situation I believe it is different. i.e. if someone has failed to pay/challenge a PCN or has been rejected then it's an entirely different situation. Not sure of the answer though.

 

There is actually a case on here at the moment. I'll try and find it when I get a minute.

-

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to add to this it would appear disabled drivers are well covered by legislation.

 

It is also a breach of PSI Regulations to clamp/immobilise/remove a vehicle on private land under the 2007 PSI regulations.

The Private Security Industry Act 2001 (Licences) Regulations 2007 No. 810

 

It would appear the reality is somewhat different:mad:.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

See previous post (5) by Micheal

 

Hmmm.

 

Careful. That is not a statutory instrument. It does make reference to legislation in places. I haven't read the relevant part recently but most of the whole document is advisory.

-

Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, I stress that this is only applicable to vehicles while in contravention.

 

Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions General Regulations 2007 Part 3

 

Reg 13

 

Limitations on the power to immobilise vehicles

 

13.—(1) An immobilisation device must not be fixed to a vehicle if there is displayed on the vehicle—

 

(a)

a current disabled person’s badge; or

 

 

 

(b)

a current recognised badge.

 

 

 

(2) If, in a case in which an immobilisation device would have been fixed to a vehicle but for paragraph (1)(a), the vehicle was not being used—

 

(a)

in accordance with regulations under section 21 of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970(7); and

 

 

 

(b)

in circumstances falling within section 117(1)(b) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984(8) (use where a disabled persons’ concession would be available),

 

 

 

the person in charge of the vehicle shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

 

(3) If, in a case in which an immobilisation device would have been fixed to a vehicle but for paragraph (1)(b), the vehicle was not being used—

 

(a)

in accordance with regulations under section 21A of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970(9); and

 

 

 

(b)

in circumstances falling within section 117(1A)(b) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984(10) (use where a disabled person’s concession would be available by virtue of displaying a non-GB badge),

 

 

 

the person in charge of the vehicle shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For the circumstances you describe - where enforcement has progressed to a recovery stage by bailiffs then I actually don't personally know of any difference in the rules or particular exemptions.

 

In such cases it is far more worth to follow the correct procedure if there has been an impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority. Orders for Recovery can be overturned - with reason. If you are getting bailiff cases re parking contraventions then the facts should be discussed here apart from whatever you do in the debt forum. Better still and for more specific legal advice - err - that 'other' place.

-

Oh I wish I could find that thread I mentioned earlier.!!!!

-

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am a blue badge user and i was booked by the local authority, only to have it waived on appeal.

 

my subsequent research turned up the fact that 4.2% of "able-bodied" tickets were subseqently waived while a staggering 44% of "disabled" tickets were. ie these represent tickets which should not have been issued.

 

This indicates to me a deliberate targeting of the disabled, which is illegal.

 

I am considering my further action on this issue

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am a blue badge user and i was booked by the local authority, only to have it waived on appeal.

 

my subsequent research turned up the fact that 4.2% of "able-bodied" tickets were subseqently waived while a staggering 44% of "disabled" tickets were. ie these represent tickets which should not have been issued.

 

This indicates to me a deliberate targeting of the disabled, which is illegal.

 

I am considering my further action on this issue

 

Total rubbish!! How can you tell by looking at a PCN who it was issued to able bodied or not? There is no such thing as a disabled ticket the contravention codes are all the same. If anything more leeway is given to disabled drivers resulting in BB holders being shown greater discretion. Blue badge holders can park almost anywhere so issuing a PCN to a BB holder is far less likely. If you got 'accurate' figures to show the percentage of non BB drivers getting a PCN and compared it the the number of BB holders getting a PCN you would probably realise able bodied get far more tickets.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Total rubbish!! How can you tell by looking at a PCN who it was issued to able bodied or not? There is no such thing as a disabled ticket the contravention codes are all the same. If anything more leeway is given to disabled drivers resulting in BB holders being shown greater discretion. Blue badge holders can park almost anywhere so issuing a PCN to a BB holder is far less likely. If you got 'accurate' figures to show the percentage of non BB drivers getting a PCN and compared it the the number of BB holders getting a PCN you would probably realise able bodied get far more tickets.

 

I wrote to my local authority who informed me that out of 782 PCNs issued to BB holders (Yes, the council keep records) in the June 2007 to May 2008 period 346 were waived, or 44%

 

The local newspaper printed a story following their use of the F o I Act which showed that for the same period 987 PCNs in total were waived out of 15744 issued.

 

Take the first set of figures from the second set and you get the result you called "Rubbish".

 

Of course the able bodied get more, there are more of them! But if 44% of all PCNs were subsequently waived it would be a big story.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Given that Councils are frequently incapable, for all their resources, of writing legally compliant parking enforcement documents I certainly wouldn't take notice of any purported statistics they produce or records they claim to have.

 

In any case, what exactly are we talking about when you say "waived"?

 

Cancelled due to CEO notes and recipient advised?

 

Cancelled after receipt of an informal challenge?

 

Cancelled in response to formal representations?

 

Cancelled as a result of a ruling by the independent Adjudicator?

 

Cancelled after reconsideration of mitigating circumstances, the Adjudicator, being unable to rule on such matters, having returned the case to Council control for such reconsideration?

 

If you are going to quote statistics then quote them, not some misleading broad rubbish.

 

-

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmmmmm...

 

I do seem to have touched a sore nerve here, almost as if someone doesn't want the facts known.

 

My ticket was cancelled after I wrote direct to the council. I have no idea as to what happened in the other cases. The communication from the council said "waived" the article in the paper said 987 challenges received had been successful.

 

I don't come from a legal background but I can tell what is accurate and inaccurate, genuine from bogus, and when I'm being rubbished for less-than-obvious reasons.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was not trying to rubbish you personally. I did though want to point out that if you are going to post information on a public forum, with potentially many reading, then make sure it is accurate and definitive; Yours wasn't.

 

You can always use phrases like 'I am informed by' or 'In my opinion'. You didn't.

 

I note you have now changed the information and perhaps that is the most relevant thing for you to note?

You now say that your PCN was "waived" - normally meaning that it was cancelled for discretionary reasons rather than there being any legal basis for cancellation.

 

You earlier said that 946 PCNs were "waived". You now say that a newspaper reported these as "succesful" challenges. There is a huge difference.

Even then, the terminology used by a local newspaper, most of which are not knowledgable about the subject IME, is open to some debate: "Challenges" at what stage - shall I start adding to the list of possibilities I gave above, i.e. all the others that might apply due to procedural impropriety or postal delay/confusion where 'appeals' are still possible after County Court action?

 

You believe figures from the Council? Yes they have to give accurate info in response to FOI but - was it accurate in the first place and what, as I've said, was the breakdown?

 

Take legal action? What, from perceiving some descrimination when it is obvious to anyone, as 'mean' said, that the opposite is true.

-

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...