G E Money and Secret Commissions

[42man]

I have seen evidence of secret commissions in excess of £3,000 (which was about 5% of the total of the loan) paid to brokers on sub prime deals. That is aside to the broker fee mentioned in the agreement !!...

 

Wilson vs Hurstanger is an important case to look at. - Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd

 

And these too - House of Commons Hansard Debates for 16 Oct 2001 (pt 5)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/204597-secret-commission-case-law.html

[michellej]

hi if G E Money never had a charge on my property , is this classed as unsecured loan and eviction set for wednesday not enforcable ???,.. any helpwill be greatly appreciated as we are at court tomorrow to suspend eviction ,.. thanks in advance

[iconoclash]

hi if G E Money never had a charge on my property , is this classed as unsecured loan and eviction set for wednesday not enforcable ???,.. any helpwill be greatly appreciated as we are at court tomorrow to suspend eviction ,.. thanks in advance

Hi - I think Im right in saying that they could have put the charge on your home at a later date and therefore the monies became secured - I dont see how you could be facing eviction without their having this Charge in place already? but you would have to be notified of such a thing = they cannot do it behind your back so to speak. In court tomorrow!! - if you have doubts about what is going on make sure you let the judge know as you should be fully informed of your rights and know whats happening and why and therefore also able to defend your rights! Try to get matter put to a later date if there are issues to be looked at still and get the court usher to get the duty solicitor to speak with you urgently, before you see the judge- as it sounds like you are not represented.

[michellej]

they do not have this charge in place ,.. these took over the loan in2004 ,.. the statements I have are from 2007 ,.. so 3 years later no charge ,.. and if they needed my consent this has never been given

[lynzi79]

Hi, Im new to this forum so bare with please if i make mistakes etc. I just read your post on GE Money, i have a mortgage with them. Oh my word, i have lodged my complaint with the fao with reguards fees, comissions, broker fees etc etc the money just dsnt add up at all, i have been at my wits end. Not sure what else to right on here hope someone can shine sum light for me xx

[42man]

The idea behind challenging on secret commissions and the aim is to get the judge to agree that they had a fidiciary duty to disclose the commission in the first place or it could be argued that the broker wasn't doing it in the best interests of the customer and that they could have been swayed by a 'colluded'/unfair/backhander deal. A judge would state that, and bring the agreement back to the start of when you took the money out, he/she would negate the deal and you pay back the original amount you borrowed without interest. However let's say you borrowed £25,000 and had made £23,000 of payments then a judge would say pay the remaining £2,000...however there might also be issues with restitution and restitutionary damages in your favour also....

[42man]

The way to start the process is to issue a 31.16 request - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/swift-advances/197346-underwriting-sheet-using-cpr31.html

[Pacluc]

I am no expert Michelle, but if there is no charge on your property, the loan is unsecured, and there is no way the lender can reposess your property. Whatever next? Credit cards and club book companies will be taking peolples homes.

As Campari says, to put a charge on your house, the lender would have had to seek an order from the court, and you would have known.

Is it that GE took over the debt from an earlier company that held a charge? I have seen something about this on the net somewhere...and there is a court case history on it too......

[42man]

I agree with Pacluc....you should state that the action is vexatious and unlawful as you have no agreement with them or any notice of assignment under English law...nor any proof of securitisation under English law too...

[on*the*case]

Hi, Im new to this forum so bare with please if i make mistakes etc. I just read your post on GE Money, i have a mortgage with them. Oh my word, i have lodged my complaint with the fao with reguards fees, comissions, broker fees etc etc the money just dsnt add up at all, i have been at my wits end. Not sure what else to right on here hope someone can shine sum light for me xx

 

Hi lynzi79

 

You will probably get a better response if you start your own thread. call it something like 'GE Money claiming back unfair charges' .

 

To start a new thread, come out of this thread and back into Mortgages and secured loans. Go to the top left of the page just below the CAG announcement and click on 'New Thread'

 

The route to reclaiming unfair charges is firstly to reconstruct your account, and you do this by finding all the information right from the beginning. Request a full statement of account from GE, then a SAR, then confirm what is unfair and wrong, complain to GE and then complain to the FOS.

 

Make your own thread and people will help with the steps.

 

Good Luck

[michellej]

The only thing I have seen is the Non Status Guidelines that only seem to call into question their fitness to hold a credit license......?

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/consumer_credit/oft192v2.pdf

 

Excellent link ,.. it says it all , can see many things in this link were my lenders/broker have messed up big time , and feel I need to dispute the full amount , as in breach in many respects ,.. quite a few things to void the agreement and pay what was borrowed ,.. definately , I was at court today and had an eviction stood down for 8 weeks on sale of home ,.. but might put sale on hold whilst I look into this dispute ,.. I have had the mortgage for 7 years (thought it was 6) ,.. £31,000 advanced ,.. paid for 7 years £22,000 , today outstanding amount £44,000 ,.. only in arreas £5,700 which is in dispute ,.. monthly payment £260 ,.. missed say 10 payments max,.. thats £2,600 in my books ,.. (or they about round figures) ,.. so say I have paid £20,000 taking away the recent missed payments ,.. that means I would be entitled to £20,000 back of G E Money ,.. but I owe them £31,000 ,.. so £11,000 difference ,.. so I owe £11,000 as £20,000 paid = £31,000 total ,... mst be worth me going full out to prove void mortgage due to secret commission ,.. as £11,000 owed sounds a million times better then £44,000 still owed after paying £20,000 over the 7 years ,.. what are others thoughts on this , thanks in advance ,.. ready to fight

[42man]

Judges are supposed to look at agreements....I am amazed that seems an extortionate credit bargain !!! Any PPI on it ? I would get a claim in for those charges too !!! - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/204563-european-court-ruling.html

[michellej]

the charges that make up the total of £44,000 ?

[HomerJSimpson]

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss355/DAZZAJOJO/SCAN0005-1.jpg

 

Hello again,my latest letter from GE (after getting accused of being on a fishing expedition!).

 

Do I have anywhere to go or shall I give up on this one?

 

Thanks in advance x

 

 

I got similar letters from Mr T Simpson. He wanted £150 + VAT for copies of the underwriting sheet. I sent a tenner to Bernard Elliston, Sandler & Co and asked for all data they had. They didn't want to send it but after reminding them that they were a legal firm and should comply with the law, they finally sent me what I wanted.

 

Letters attached, details removed obviously...

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/itshomer/IgrouptoBesInstructionsafe.jpg?t=1259859138

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/itshomer/bestoalabastersafe.jpg?t=1259859207

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/itshomer/bestoalabaster2safe.jpg?t=1259859263

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/itshomer/underwritingsheetsafe.jpg?t=1259859309

 

 

Strange as the letter from Igroup / GEMoney tells BES&Co there are no commissions payable to Alabaster (Ocean Finance).

 

GEMoney think they are above the law. Their solicitors know that they are not.

 

Think this may be the only way you will find out the secret commissions.

 

HomerJ

 

 

 

Also funny that if "You would have been provided with disclosure of any commissions prior to entering into your loan agreement", GEMoney always seem to be unable to include a copy of this letter you would have received. Surely it forms part of your data subject access request.

Edited December 3, 2009 by HomerJSimpson

[on*the*case]

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss355/DAZZAJOJO/SCAN0005-1.jpg

Hello again,my latest letter from GE (after getting accused of being on a fishing expedition!). Do I have anywhere to go or shall I give up on this one?

Thanks in advance x

 

and to add to the advice from andrew1

 

6yrs statute barred begins from the time you were made of the issue you now raised...so if you have only recently been made aware then the clock begins then, not when the agreement is dated. ....... Go for it.

 

The Court will allocate the track not GE, and allocation is not always dependent on the claim value. They are being obstructive, have a look at CPR 27.2(3) 'The court of its own initiative may order a party to provide further information if it considers it appropriate to do so'. This does apply to small claims and means the Judge can order disclosure, particularly if it is of importance to your case.

 

A terse reply is called for

[Pacluc]

It seems the original theme of the thread has gone missing a little......we were exploring the possibilities of agreements being unenforceable where secret commissions have been paid. Trouble is, no law exists, and we dont have any case law or precedent to quote.

Have a click on this link, it's a step in the right direction.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8282264.stm

[michellej]

my letter is sent off to G E Money ,.. 31.16 which will hopefully supply me with a copy of original credit agreement ,.. just 21 days wait now ,..

[michellej]

Morning all ,... well had another thought , if I used a no win no fee property solicitor , to fight my case and I happen to win ,.. would I be able to claim them fees off G E Money ? ,.. as if so then surely must be worth bring an expert along to put your case forward ,.. I know we get to know lots through this forum , but I think a professional spokesman would be great and oly strengthen our cases and show we mean business ,.. well all thoughts on this will be great

[on*the*case]

michellej, its still early days for reclaiming unfair mortgage charges. Its like the position a couple of years ago with Bank Charges. We have the advantage of the GMAC ruling by the FSA to set a sort of bench mark. At the moment the route is via a complaint to the FOS, its after that route has been explored that Court action will start, and thats when legal heavies will become involved. I am looking forward to American style group actions against the lenders (assuming the current legislation goes through).

[johannab]

Hello HomerJ ,thanks for all that , looks like you have been successful.

 

Were Bernard Elliston their solicitors at the time? or yours? I already asked my solicitors for any details they have and they said they have nothing from the transaction. The solicitors mentioned on my SAR details are SIMPLY LAW. These were obviously involved from GE's end...? The broker is no longer working and can't be tracked down,so GE's solicitors would be my only option now. Should I just Subject access request them with a tenner ? I have found a solicitors called 'simply law' based in Watford...this has got to be them!

[johannab]

hello on*the *case,

I have had a look at the Part you mentioned.I am so unfamiliar with court proceedings and terms though . How terse should I get in my response to them? Obviously I will mention that the 6 year rule doesn't apply in this case (as yourself and Andrew1 have kindly pointed out to me).

As I have said above, I will SAR the solicitors mentioned following HomerJ's lead.

[michellej]

michellej, its still early days for reclaiming unfair mortgage charges. Its like the position a couple of years ago with Bank Charges. We have the advantage of the GMAC ruling by the FSA to set a sort of bench mark. At the moment the route is via a complaint to the FOS, its after that route has been explored that Court action will start, and thats when legal heavies will become involved. I am looking forward to American style group actions against the lenders (assuming the current legislation goes through).

 

Hi on*the*case , I will not be going down the road of claiming unfair charges ,.. regarding the fees I mention , these would be solicitors fees ,.. as I can get a solicitor on No win No fee ,.. if we win would G E be expected to compenstate my costs to solicitor? ,.. as solicitor fees are 25% of claim , and as the account says £44k owed ,.. original loan £31k ,.. paid £22k over the years ,.. void agreement equals lenders owed £9k,... obviously my solicitor will expect 25% of £35k,.. as if we win debt will move from £44k to £9k

Edited December 4, 2009 by michellej

[on*the*case]

The simple answer is probably but not definitely.

 

Your solicitor will advise, listen carefully to what they say about fees & costs.

[michellej]

thanks for reply ,.. yes will ask , and definately listen carefully ,.. Well it will be costs you would not otherwise have if not part of a inflated agreement which in the eyes of the law is void and not enforcable ,.. and as it is the claiment who has recieved the injustice , then surely fees should be cover , and if not ,then possible another courtcase to claim these as money owed

[beachcomber60]

Sorry to butt in, I am being taken to court by Link in connection to an unseured home improvement loan, as part of my request for disclosure of documents Link sent an A4 sheet titled 'Payout Signoff Sheet', on this sheet its stated the following :-

 

Commissions Due -

 

Advance £****.**

PPP Premium £ ***.**

Additional £ ***.**

 

Until now I had no knowledge of 'commissions' paid in setting up this account, its not in the agreement & not mentioned anywhere in the SAR we made.

 

Have we got something here in which to fight back with? Companies involved were Pinnacle Insurance (PPP)/GE Money/Europlas

 

I would be most greatful for any advice.

 

Apologies to the OP.