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    • "We suffer more in imagination than in reality" - really pleased this all happened. Settled by TO, full amount save as to costs and without interest claimed. I consider this a success but feel free to move this thread to wherever it's appropriate. I say it's a success because when I started this journey I was in a position of looking to pay interest on all these accounts, allowing them to default stopped that and so even though I am paying the full amount, it is without a doubt reduced from my position 3 years ago and I feel knowing this outcome was possible, happy to gotten this far, defended myself in person and left with a loan with terms I could only dream of, written into law as interest free! I will make better decisions in the future on other accounts, knowing key stages of this whole process. We had the opportunity to speak in court, Judge (feels like just before a ruling) was clear in such that he 'had all the relevant paperwork to make a judgement'. He wasn't pleased I hadn't settled before Court.. but then stated due to WS and verbal arguments on why I haven't settled, from my WS conclusion as follows: "11. The Defendant was not given ample evidence to prove the debt and therefore was not required to enter settlement negotiations. Should the debt be proved in the future, the Defendant is willing to enter such negotiations with the Claimant. "  He offered to stand down the case to give us chance to settle and that that was for my benefit specifically - their Sols didn't want to, he asked me whether I wanted to proceed to judgement or be given the opportunity to settle. Naturally, I snapped his hand off and we entered negotiations (took about 45 minutes). He added I should get legal advice for matters such as these. They were unwilling to agree to a TO unless it was full amount claimed, plus costs, plus interest. Which I rejected as I felt that was unfair in light of the circumstances and the judges comments, I then countered with full amount minus all costs and interest over 84 months. They accepted that. I believe the Judge wouldn't have been happy if they didn't accept a payment plan for the full amount, at this late stage. The judge was very impressed by my articulate defence and WS (Thanks CAG!) he respected that I was wiling to engage with the process but commented only I  can know whether this debt is mine, but stated that Civil cases were based on balance of probabilities, not without shadow of a doubt, and all he needs to determine is whether the account existed. Verbal arguments aside; he has enough evidence in paperwork for that. He clarified that a copy of a DN and NOA is sufficient proof based on balance of probabilities that they were served. I still disagree, but hey, I'm just me.. It's definitely not strict proof as basically I have to prove the negative (I didn't receive them/they were not served), which is impossible. Overall, a great result I think! BT  
    • Seeking further advice now. The 33 days in which the defendant has to submit a defence expires at 16:00 tomorrow. The defendant has submitted an acknowledgement of service but looking to get the claim awarded by default in failure to submit the defence. This is MoneyClaim Online and can see an option to request a default judgement but believe that is for failure to acknowledge the claim within 14 days??  So being MoneyClaim Online, how do I request the claim be awarded in my favour?
    • Have to agree with the above Health and safety legislation is specific in that the service provider in so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees and those not in the employ of the business. You claim is like saying you slipped in the swimming pool area while taking a dip. As rightly stated by by the leisure centre, a sports hall has dedicated equipment and you yourself personally have a legal obligation in mitigating danger or injury to yourself by taking account of your immediate surroundings. Where your claim will fail is if it is reasonable and proportionate to impose liability of the Leisure Centre? The answer has to be no.
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CL Finance taking me to court for bank account made up of charges!!! HELP!!!


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Someone help me!!

I had a bank account with smile that has gone more and more overdrawn and which i have written to them to refund the charges- this account was passed to incasso who I wrote to and advised of situation.

On 9th July I received a letter from Lewis debt recovery acting for CL Finance to advise they they now owned the debt and that if it was not paid by 19th July, they would take further action.

Today I have received Court claim forms from CL Finance for this account plus a credit card I had with Smile of which I attatch CCA which is completely unreadable and have since requested all statements, and deed of assignment from incasso.

I dont know what to do any help anyone PLEASE!!!!!!?????

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x...era/SMILE1.jpg

 

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x...era/Smile2.jpg

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Hi PT

Thanks for your speedy reply

Credit Card:

The Claimant's claimis for the sum of XXX.XX being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under a regulated credit agreement made in writing between the Dfendant and Claimant under reference XXXXXX.

 

The Defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served upon the defendant pursuant to section 87 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Claimant claims the sum of XXXX.XX

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Bank account:

"The Claimants claim is for the sum of XXX.XX being monies due from the defendant to the Claimant under an overdrawn bank account originated with the Co-operative Bank PLC under reference XXXXXXXXX and assigned to the Claimant on the 28 May 2008 notice of which has been given to the Defendant.

 

The account was maintained without sufficient funds to meet withdrawals made by the defendant.

 

The Claimant claims the sum of XXX.XX"

 

 

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated I feel I am out of my depth.

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Right, but its CL who are taking you to court?

 

so this would be a assigned debt and i note a distinct lack of the word "Assigned" from the POCs relating to the Credit Card

 

that could cause them a few probs

Edited by pt2537
too slow at typing
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Claimant: CL finance.

Adress for sending documents: Howard Cohen and Co Solicitors.

 

On the last letter from Lewis debt recovery there is a small box which states:

 

"Notice of assignment

(Then an incorrect name)

We hereby give you notice that the Co-Op bank of 101 Baloon Street M60 0AL have by an Assignment dated 28 May , 2008 and made between The Co Op bank PLC and CL Finance Limited assigned to CL Finance Limited absolutely a debt in the sum of XXX.XX due and owing by you to them for the balance due under account reference XXXXXXXX and you are required to pay the same to the benefit of CL Finance Limited accordingly.

Dated 9th July, 2008.

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Thanks so much PT was involved in a car accident this afternoon and then came home to this.

?have been stressing big time!!

Going to try to get some sleep now safe in the knowledge that I can depend on my CAG freinds when I need them.

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I in tend to defend the current account as they owe me more back in charges, however could someone look at the cca for the card to see if I have a leg to stand on if not thinking may make them an offer- or is it too late for that?

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Hi, Vine,

 

I think the cca is enforceable, as it appears to have the prescribed terms, i.e. credit limit, interest rate, ways to make payments. (I presume you blanked out your signature, by the way!).

 

There will be other ways to defend this claim, though, don't get stressed!

 

You've already pointed out that the NOA is incorrect and that they haven't sent a default notice, so their claim is flawed for starters.

 

Your claim for the refund of unlawful charges is obviously a strong part of your defence. I would concentrate on getting your figures correct and ready. Don't forget to add the interest you will have paid on the charges, (at extortionate interest rates, no doubt), and I would add CCI, which will bring the amount THEY owe you up quite markedly.

 

Can you give us some idea of the amounts involved? eg

Bank A/C claim = £xxxxx, CC claim = £xxxxxx, Amount of charges =£xxx

 

I was also sued recently by CL and they gave up at the Allocation Questionnaire stage - they didn't send theirs in so the claim was struck out!

 

So take heart from their dreadful reputation for dropping and mismanaging claims. They're not a bright bunch, are they. . .

 

BAE :)

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Oh Thank you so much blossom, dont know what CCI is. My figure are as follows:

 

Bank accout:

655.50 Account

55.00 Court fee

70.00 solicitors costs

780.50 total

 

Credit Card:

1133.56

65.00 Court fee

80.00 Solicitors costs

 

They owe in charges

 

1034.42 from 12/09/2006 without interest

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I in tend to defend the current account as they owe me more back in charges, however could someone look at the cca for the card to see if I have a leg to stand on if not thinking may make them an offer- or is it too late for that?

 

Its never too late to make an offer.

How ever i am not saying you should offer them any thing. YOU SAY YOU HAVE NOT HAD DEFAULT NOTICE FOR CC OR TEMINATION NOTICE FOR CURRENT ACC., if they are not forthcomming or not in the correct form then that's a defence. If they don't produce them before your defence then you would put them to strict proof they were sent to you, and if they do show up they may well have errors.

Its always worth defending, if the defence fails you can always offer to make a settlement then, I would see what transpires before you have thoughts of making offers, at least you know you can at any stage, even once litigation has commenced.

Blossemandebony has said the CA looks enforceable, I must say from what I see I can hardly read any of it, and thats with my glasses on. I'm sure you know that an illegible CA is unenforceable. You say in your first post I think, that its unreadable. I can't comment on that as I don't have the best eye sight, very poor eyesight actually, dreadfull thing when your eye sight is failing. :-(

Hope you are ok after your car accident, you sound like you are having a rough time at the moment. keep your chin up. Good luck. :)

Just seen your figures, you can counter claim, doesn't seem worth them pursuing you. The claim for bank charges to be refunded would be stayed at the moment. If the claim was just for OD then it would be pretty easy to defend but as the cc is on there that has to be addressed too, which makes it a bit trickier (meaning how to draft the defence with the two different claims,) I have the same thing going on at the moment. Take a look at my thread it may help you.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/148863-joint-account-bank-charges.html#post1573435

Edited by questioning
typos as usual
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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/145027-interest-tutorial.html

 

Hi,Vine,

 

Sorry - CCI = Compound contractual Interest! Rather than me explaining (badly) what it means , have a look at the link above . . .

 

I agree with Questioning that the claims are worth defending. Once your defences are in, they may discontinue or come to you with an offer to settle at a lower amount, so what's to lose . . .

 

With the Bank a/c claim, if you put in a defence mostly based on unlawful charges, I think the claim will be stayed, (suspended),pending the outcome of the OFT Test case.

 

Personally - and this is only my opinion - I would use the unlawful charges argument in the credit card claim too. It is the SAME company, so the bank charges are related to both claims. If you do defend this way, this claim may be stayed too. By the time the OFT case is resolved, it could be 2 years time, by then you will have racked up another few hundred in interest on the charges, and they will probably owe you more than you owe them!

 

BAE :)

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/145027-interest-tutorial.html

 

Hi,Vine,

 

Sorry - CCI = Compound contractual Interest! Rather than me explaining (badly) what it means , have a look at the link above . . .

 

I agree with Questioning that the claims are worth defending. Once your defences are in, they may discontinue or come to you with an offer to settle at a lower amount, so what's to lose . . .

 

With the Bank a/c claim, if you put in a defence mostly based on unlawful charges, I think the claim will be stayed, (suspended),pending the outcome of the OFT Test case.

 

Personally - and this is only my opinion - I would use the unlawful charges argument in the credit card claim too. It is the SAME company, so the bank charges are related to both claims. If you do defend this way, this claim may be stayed too. By the time the OFT case is resolved, it could be 2 years time, by then you will have racked up another few hundred in interest on the charges, and they will probably owe you more than you owe them!

 

BAE :)

 

Well done you have put that loads better than i did, I tried.

 

Vinegarvera,

I've looked at the CA again and with cleaned glasses, I can make out the more important bits, so I don't know if its worth going down the road of illegible, Perhaps you could show it around at home to see what people thought.

i think what blossom has posted is sound advice, thats the way I would go. If every ones claims are stayed then why shouldn't yours be. :cool:

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Thanks for that, If I intend to do this how would i put in a defence as both claims are under different numbers?

 

If you mean you have 2 seperate claims ( I mean court claims)then even better defend each seperately, as they are.

 

I thought they had been amalgamated which is why I directed you to my thread and said it was trickier.

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Doesn't actually make alot of difference now when it came. As soon as they produce a CCA they can resume collection.

the question is, if it is enforceable. Blossom is able to read it so if she can then I assume a judge would be able to.

 

As i said earlier, on a second look i could read some of it, but as my eyes are bad I am not a good person to give an opinion.

If you think it is not eligible then that is a defence to a court enforcing it.

It may be a case of what the judges eye sight is like.

 

Did you see my earlier post RE. have you got two different court claims?

If so it will be easier to defend IMHO as you can use defences posted on the forum and quite easily edit to suit your circumstances for each claim.

my case was alot more complicated as to how to word the defence because they had amalgamated the claims, with very vague POC.

 

Again this is just my opinion, but I think You need to find all the faults in their claims and defend using them and including what Blossom has already posted regarding the penalty charges.

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