Re: Distressing phone call from MBNA

[car2403]

I was wondering if what to do next? Should i just leave it for now Or should i write to them again if i dont get a response soon?

 

If they haven't replied, it's time to get even more technical on their asses and try to force their hand.

 

What you want is a letter saying the agreement is unenforceable and won't be collected on and that any information recorded at the credit reference agencies will be removed as a result. This is our ultimate goal.

 

So, send them this;

 

 

[YOUR NAME]

 

[YOUR ADDRESS]

 

 

 

[DATE]

 

 

THE DATA PROTECTION OFFICER OR DATA CONTROLLER

MBNA

STANSFIELD HOUSE

CHESTER BUSINESS PARK

CHESTER

CHESHIRE

CH4 9QQ

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re: MBNA Account number ****

 

 

Failure to disclose under the Consumer Credit Act &

 

Formal notice to desist from processing or disclosing personal subject data under the Data Protection Act

 

 

I refer to my letter dated ***, which was delivered to you, via Royal Mail Recorded Delivery, on ***.

 

I have recently conducted an audit of my personal credit reports supplied by Experian, Equifax and CallCredit. It is noted that there exists, within all three files, 2 entries referenced as “MBNA” agreements, these being recorded in “Default”.

 

In my letter, I made a request for a copies of the signed, executed credit agreements and true, certified copies of the original signed default notices for the above accounts under s.77(1) & s.78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, as amended. In addition, statements of the accounts should have been sent along with any other document referenced in the credit agreement. You have failed to fully substantiate information relating to any of the questions put to you in the original letter.

 

S.77(4) Consumer Credit Act 1974, as amended, allows a lender 12 working days to deliver on this request before classing the lender as being “in default” of that request. As such you had until 28 August 2007 to reply to my request with the information required. To date, I have not received this information as requested – therefore, I hold you in “default” under s.77(4) Act;

 

“If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;”

 

As such, I contest that these alleged agreements are regulated agreements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, as amended, as you have failed to provide a signed, properly executed, copy of the alleged agreement and the agreement provided does not meet the requirements of the Act in that it doesn’t include details of terms and conditions under which you can add default charges to the account. (As I requested a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to, I must assume that you have sent such an agreement as an enclosure)

 

I now contend that these debts are “unenforceable”, and the alleged contracts between us are now “void” at law. As such, I will not be sending further payments in relation to these accounts and I will consider any further attempt to collect the outstanding balance from you an act of harassment. I also contend that the “Defaults” recorded are unwarranted and unlawful, as there is no regulated agreement under the CCA. Only a properly executed, regulated agreement can be “defaulted” and “terminated” within the terms of the Act. As no such agreement is in existence, no “Default” under the Act can exist.

 

Finally, in relation to these accounts, I now contend that the Default registered is unlawful and illegal as it isn’t supported by either;

 

§ An agreement, regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 – (as amended) therefore, no Default can exist. Any reliance on the CCA to “Default” me in this way will therefore fail.

 

§ A prescribed “Default” or “Termination”, regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 – (as amended) as there is no regulated agreement, you can not rely on the Act’s terms to “Default” or “Terminate” the account.

 

I will now also contest that MBNA's continued processing of my data is an unwarranted act and I enclose a Statutory Notice to that effect, which is deemed served as of the date noted on the Royal Mail's Recorded Delivery service audit.

My written permission, regarding account number ****, allowing MBNA to continue processing, or disclosing, my personal subject data, does not exist. I also dispute MBNA's “Defaulting” of this account, which is visible on my Credit Reference files, for the reasons outlined above. I, therefore, consider that any default appearing on my credit files in relation to these alleged agreements to be wholly unwarranted and unlawful. With regards to account number ****, my permission to continue processing, or disclosing, my personal subject data was revoked upon termination of that original contract and I hereby reiterate that revocation. I also do not recall receiving any such Notice of Default being served on me, as required by the conditions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I consider that any default entry on my credit files to be wholly unwarranted. However, if you can supply the copies, then I also contest MBNA's continued processing on the following grounds.

 

As you are aware, I am afforded principled rights under the Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act), Schedule 1, Part 1 ("The Principles") in relation to the manner in which my data is collated, stored and processed. Of particular note, are Principles 3, 4 and 5:

 

“3. Personal data shall be adequate, relevant and not excessive in relation to the purpose or purposes for which they are processed.

 

4. Personal data shall be accurate and, where necessary, kept up to date.

 

5. Personal data processed for any purpose or purposes shall not be kept for longer than is necessary for that purpose or those purposes.”

 

In my case, MBNA is processing data without my consent. Consent in this case meaning the lawful right to process my data, with my permission, with the Credit Reference Agencies – that information being “publicly available”.

 

This is confirmed in Principle 2 of the Data Protection Act, which states:

 

"2. Personal data shall be obtained only for one or more specified and lawful purposes, and shall not be further processed in any manner incompatible with that purpose or those purposes."

 

I emphasise the term "specified and lawful purposes" as in ‘those specified within the contract’, and no more. I also emphasise the term "shall not be further processed".

After seeing other cases such as mine being handled, by viewing online consumer action group forums, I am aware that the Credit Reference Agencies are claiming that they have a “legal right” to maintain this type of adverse entry for up to six years. When challenged, they are unable to quote the exact Statute that includes this so-called “legal right” - they in fact remain remarkably quiet when questioned about this. Only after insistence of disclosure do they eventually concede that, whilst they have no statutory right, it is “standard industry practice” but they added that they are “allowed to by Law”. After further challenges, they finally admitted that unless this was a County Court issue, their term actually referred to contractual Law, but continued to emphasise that it was “standard industry practice to record default entries for six years.”

 

After scrutiny of all the relevant legislation, including the Consumer Credit Act (As Amended), the various Financial Services Acts and the Data Protection Act, etc., it is clear that there is absolutely no legislation that allows a lender or supplier (e.g. MBNA) to collate, process or distribute any other information unless there is express written permission from the data subject.

 

In fact, Section 10 of the Data Protection Act awards the real authority, regarding privacy of data, to the data subject, not the Data Controller. The Act is also very clear as to the rights of the data subject in respect of withdrawing permission to continue data processing and disclosure:

 

“10. - (1) Subject to subsection (2), an individual is entitled at any time by notice in writing to a data controller to require the data controller at the end of such period as is reasonable in the circumstances to cease, or not to begin, processing, or processing for a specified purpose or in a specified manner, any personal data in respect of which he is the data subject, on the ground that, for specified reasons-

(a) the processing of those data or their processing for that purpose or in that manner is causing or is likely to cause substantial damage or substantial distress to him or to another, and

(b) that damage or distress is or would be unwarranted.”

However, there is some exclusion provisions for Data Controllers, and Section 10 does continue with various exceptions to subsection (1) above, and these are quoted, in full, below:

 

“10. - (2) Subsection (1) does not apply-

(a)in a case where any of the conditions in paragraphs 1 to 4 of Schedule 2 is met,

or;

(b)in such other cases as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State by order.”

 

To paragraph (b), I can only presume that MBNA has not applied to HM Secretary of State for an order allowing you an exclusion, which leaves MBNA with the only remaining possibility of requesting an exemption under paragraph (a).

 

So, we must turn to the exemptions permitted in paragraph (a) to find where MBNA’s Data Controller may invoke his perceived exemption to the Data Protection Act, namely, those listed in paragraphs 1 to 4 of Schedule 2. I have reproduced these exemption paragraphs, in full, below:

 

“1. The data subject has given his consent to the processing.

2. The processing is necessary-

(a) for the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party, or

(b) for the taking of steps at the request of the data subject with a view to entering into a contract.

3. The processing is necessary for compliance with any legal obligation to which the data controller is subject, other than an obligation imposed by contract.

4. The processing is necessary in order to protect the vital interests of the data subject.”

 

It is my contention that MBNA's supposed right of obtaining an exemption is not contained within any of these paragraphs. I have followed each in turn with my notation to give a clearer explanation, should there be any lack of clarity.

 

1. The data subject has given his consent to the processing.

 

That consent, as no legal agreement exists, therefore, also does not exist.

 

2. The processing is necessary-

(a) for the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party, or

(b) for the taking of steps at the request of the data subject with a view to entering

into a contract.

 

For both (a) and (b), there is no contract in existence.

 

3. The processing is necessary for compliance with any legal obligation to which the data controller is subject, other than an obligation imposed by contract.

 

According to the Information Commissioners Office (I.C.O.), exemption 3 includes all other statutory obligations for which the interests of national security and welfare override personal privacy.

 

These obligations allow for the provision of data to Official agencies and organisations, e.g. disclosure to crime prevention agencies (Police, Intelligence Services, etc), official Government agencies (DVLA, DSS, Passport Agency, etc.) and health authorities, etc., and for any other purpose not agreed within a civil contract.

 

We know that the three major credit reference agencies are not Government bodies, nor official agencies, but are “for-profit” companies - even though they like to think they are official. None of these three agencies are listed in the appropriate Data Protection Act Schedule that names the specific organisations that are permitted any such exemption rights.

 

4. The processing is necessary in order to protect the vital interests of the data subject.”

 

With reference to the I.C.O. again, this is interpreted as “anything that affects the data subject as a matter of life and death”. This clause is included in the Data Protection Act to permit data, like medical records or contact details, being disclosed in emergency situations. I do not believe that this case could be described as anything like a matter of life or death.

 

So, it is clear to see that there is neither statutory provision permitting MBNA's Data Controller to assume continued processing rights of my data at his discretion, nor any exemption. I can then only assume that MBNA is relying on the Common Law – as already discussed, above, no such contract is in existence.

 

In summary, in relation to this query, I am formally instructing you, as an authorised officer of MBNA, from this day onwards, to:

 

1) Cease to continue storing, processing or communicating my data; (s.10 Data Protection Act)

 

2) Remove all such data from automated process systems, as per the provisions of Part II, Section 12 (1) of the Data Protection Act, namely: (s.12 Data Protection Act)

a. “An individual is entitled at any time, by notice in writing to any data controller, to require the data controller to ensure that no decision taken by or on behalf of the data controller which significantly affects that individual is based solely on the processing by automatic means of personal data in respect of which that individual is the data subject for the purpose of evaluating matters relating to him such as, for example, his performance at work, his creditworthiness, his reliability or his conduct.”

 

Of particular note is the Acts own term “his creditworthiness”;

 

3) Cease to disclose any data relating to the agreements in question, or any other data relating to the Data Subject, to any third party including, but not restricted to, Equifax plc, Experian Ltd and Callcredit plc; and

 

4) Instruct Equifax plc, Experian Ltd and Callcredit plc to remove all data pertaining to your records on me, to the extent that no data entry in relation to MBNA will exist on my credit files.

 

You should be aware that you have, by statute, twenty-one days in which to either comply with my Notice, or give written notice stating your reasons and why you consider the Notice unjustified.

 

Any failure on your part to adhere to these statutory timescales will automatically be interpreted as your non-compliance with the legal procedure. In that case, you will be expected to unconditionally comply with my Statutory Notice or I shall have no alternative but to refer the matter to Information Commissioners’ Office, or the Court to seek an Order to that effect. Should it become necessary to refer the matter to the Court, then I shall also apply for Court fees and legal costs against MBNA. I shall also reserve the right to seek redress for damages as per the remit of the Data Protection Act, this including (but not being limited to) damage as a result of defamation of my character and damage as a result of having to pay higher rates of interest on loans and mortgages as a direct result of incorrectly recorded financial information due to MBNA negligence.

 

I trust that I have made my position clear, and that MBNA will now make a serious effort to understand its legal obligations and effect the changes I requested, within the timescales provided.

 

In any event, I shall expect a written confirmation from you acknowledging the contents of this letter within 5 working days, as per the Banking Code.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

Mr. C A Robinson

 

Then, on a new page, include this;

 

 

 

 

Statutory Notice pursuant to s.10 and s.12 of the

 

Data Protection Act 1998.

 

 

 

Data Subject Notice;

 

 

To: The Data Protection Officer or Data Controller, MBNA

 

Data Subject: [YOUR NAME]

 

Address: [YOUR ADDRESS].

 

Subject data: "Default” showing on Credit File and processing of information relating to the Data Subject with third parties, both without consent, relating to the Data Subject - account number ****

 

The recording of “Default” information by MBNA, without my consent, against my credit file without having an agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, (as amended) or a legal contract, or any processing by you of that data, in any manner, which would be unfair or inaccurate or which in any way, would breach The Data Protection Act 1998.

 

Therefore, take notice that I require that you cease from processing within twenty one days of the receipt by you of this Statutory Notice, or else that you do not begin to process any personal data of which I am the subject insofar as that processing involves the communication or passing of personal data of which I am the subject to any third party and insofar as the said data relates wholly or in part to the implementation by you of alleged defaults or contractual breaches or breaches contrary to The Common Law.

 

This Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which has been caused to date. And that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this Notice would violate both the Principles and Data Subject’s rights of The Data Protection Act 1998, to do so would be both unwarranted and unlawful.

 

Signed,

 

 

 

 

 

 

[YOUR NAME]

 

Dated this, the ****th day of ****, in the year two thousand and ****.

 

 

There's more on what this letter means in this thread; (it isn't my letter!)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/24013-defaults-proposed-method-removal.html

 

Also, have you sent them a DPA SAR? Now may be the time to do this;

 

 

[YOUR NAME]

 

 

 

[YOUR ADDRESS]

 

 

[DATE]

 

THE DATA PROTECTION OFFICER OR DATA CONTROLLER

MBNA

STANSFIELD HOUSE

CHESTER BUSINESS PARK

CHESTER

CHESHIRE

CH4 9QQ

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re: MBNA Account number ****

 

s.7 DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998 (AS AMENDED) – DATA SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST

 

I request that MBNA provides me with all details held regarding my accounts, including;

 

§ Details of all default charges for unpaid items and fees charged for managing the above account, which I have paid in the last six years

§ Copies of all original Consumer Credit Act agreements for each account held in my name

§ True and certified copies of all original Default Notices and Terminations in relation to each account held, or previously held.

§ Details of all manual intervention that has taken place on accounts held in my name, with documentary evidence of such.

§ Details of logic involved in any automated decisions you made about me, or my accounts with you.

 

Please note that this is not an exclusive list, as I require access to all information held by MBNA regarding me, as a Data Subject under the Data Protection Act 1998.

I understand that MBNA is obliged to provide this information under the Data Protection Act 1998. I have enclosed a postal order for £10 to cover the statutory fee that can be charged for this service.

 

I look forward to hearing from you within 40 days from the date of this letter.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

[YOUR NAME]

 

Send this with a postal order - not a cheque - for £10. This is because we do not want MBNA to hold your signature. See here;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/110578-digital-signature-guide.html

[Gazza112]

Hi car2403

 

Great letters you posted up, i wonder if this is somethink i should send MBNA also is it possable to addopt and send to other creditors the letter you have posted.

 

Gaz

[sunflower99]

Hi car! Thanks for comeing to rescue again with advice about next letters to write.Again you have been very helpful!So i will get them typed out and sent soon!The only thing is i have not requested any reports from credit reference agencies so though i am aware there will propably be quite a few adverse comments from MBNA i would not know how many!i dont think i have been properly defaulted by MBNA The nearest ive got to a default is a couple of letters letter saying i have a restriction on account but no mention of a formal default just that they may in future!so in the part of letter that specifys how many adverse entries they have on me should i miss out putting a number on the entries and just say i note there are entries from MBNA being recorded as a default? and not specify a number?I suppose i ought to request a credit report from one of the organisations you mentioned to see what MBNA and other fiancial organisations have written about me which may come in very useful .I suppose if i request my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) i will see how many defaults have been entered by MBNA in this dispute?sorry i am a bit of a dunce about all this but eveything a bit new and i am not even sure how to go about seeing credit reports about me!

Edited November 2, 2008 by sunflower99

[sunflower99]

Hi Gazza ! It is a brilliant letter Car put up on this thread!It sounds very legal and impresive!LOL Car has been incredibly helpful ! and given me some hope !Very nice helpful people on here,I am very impressed with consumer forums!Yes MBNA must be getting short of pink printer ink!I have not received any of their pink threatograms either!How dissapointing and you were hopeing to get som pink decorations in your room! What a shame! Hope you having a nice sunday and still enjoying the peace from the DCAS!

[car2403]

Hi car2403

 

Great letters you posted up, i wonder if this is somethink i should send MBNA also is it possable to addopt and send to other creditors the letter you have posted.

 

Gaz

 

They can be amended for any creditor, yes.

 

Hi car! Thanks for comeing to rescue again with advice about next letters to write.Again you have been very helpful!So i will get them typed out and sent soon!The only thing is i have not requested any reports from credit reference agencies so though i am aware there will propably me quite a few adverse comments from MBNA i would not know how many!i dont think i have been properly defaulted by MBNA The nearest ive got to a default is a couple of letters letter saying i have a restriction on account but no mention of a formal default just that they may in future!so in the part of letter that specifys how many adverse entries they have on me should i miss out putting a number on the entries and just say i note there are entries from MBNA being recorded as a default? and not specify a number?I suppose i ought to request a credit report from one of the organisations you mentioned to see what MBNA and other fiancial organisations have written about me which may come in very useful .I suppose if i request my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) i will see how many defaults have been entered by MBNA in this dispute?sorry i am a bit of a dunce about all this but eveything a bit new and i am not even sure how to go about seeing credit reports about me!

 

I would request your CRA files, just to see what is on there, but I'd still send the letter off anyway. I don't think they will comply with the request, in which case you'll have received your CRA files by the time they either reply or fail to comply with the timescales allowed to reply.

 

Incidentally, make sure you request your statutory credit file from those companies - there's no need to sign up to any monthly payments, IMHO. (Unless you really want to, that is...)

[sunflower99]

Hi Car! I looked at the thread about credit reference agencies and data protection and explaining about the letter you advised me to write!It did prove interesting reading! It is amazing how much new information about the law and our rights i am getting from this forum!so now i understand more about the letter!Only thing is that it seems to suggest that i sign it in pen but as you say not a good idea to keep signing things ffor banks now as another thing ive learnt from this site is always to avoid my signature on things but would i be able to get away without signing letters or do i need to make up a digital signature to put on the letter that it is suggested i sign?sorry to keep pestering you with questions! You must think i am a pain!LOL but after this message i am going to drag myself away from computer and get some fresh air giving our dog a game in the garden!so i will leave you in peace for a while! Thanks again for all your advice and help!

[car2403]

Hi Car! I looked at the thread about credit reference agencies and data protection and explaining about the letter you advised me to write!It did prove interesting reading! It is amazing how much new information about the law and our rights i am getting from this forum!so now i understand more about the letter!Only thing is that it seems to suggest that i sign it in pen but as you say not a good idea to keep signing things ffor banks now as another thing ive learnt from this site is always to avoid my signature on things but would i be able to get away without signing letters or do i need to make up a digital signature to put on the letter that it is suggested i sign?sorry to keep pestering you with questions! You must think i am a pain!LOL but after this message i am going to drag myself away from computer and get some fresh air giving our dog a game in the garden!so i will leave you in peace for a while! Thanks again for all your advice and help!

 

Not a pain... Maybe a pest, but never a pain...

 

Use a digital signature, IMO.

[Gazza112]

Hi Car2403

 

Yes, i'll get that letter in the post on the beginning of your letter you addressed it to the credit controller. Is there a website where i can retrive the addresses for other creditors, or do i just send to the addresses i've been posting to and head it Credit Controller.

Yes, did you see the Capital 1 thread where they have set up a £1 payment plan. Considering i never asked fo one and all i ask them was for my CCA in the first place which i'm still waiting for.

I'll get a letter of for my CRA files tomorrow.

 

Once again thanks car for your help and info.

 

Gaz

[car2403]

Hi Car2403

 

Yes, i'll get that letter in the post on the beginning of your letter you addressed it to the credit controller. Is there a website where i can retrive the addresses for other creditors, or do i just send to the addresses i've been posting to and head it Credit Controller.

 

That letter should go to the DPA Data Controller for the company you are complaining to - the Act specifically requires it sent to that role to take effect. Sending it elsewhere would still work, but you'd have to allow extra time for compliance to be reasonable. All the more reason to send it to the right role/address in the first place.

 

There's the search on the ICO website;

 

Register of Data Controllers & their roles - Information Commissioner's Office - ICO

[sunflower99]

Hi Car ! Thanks for advice ! Sorry for being a pest! LOL As you have probably gathered ! i am a worrier!but thats why i like this site it always makes me feel better when i get reassurance and help about these worries and usually come away from site feeling a lot better and ready to take DCAS on!Thanks again!

Edited November 2, 2008 by sunflower99

[sunflower99]

Hi Gazza! I am so glad that Cars advice and letter he put up on this thread are going to be a help to you as well.The only thing i was worried about was the digital signature thing and was hopeing i could get away with just typeing out name as i am a bit of a dunce when it comes to computer programs though i usually get there in the end! I managed to master photobucket so should be able to mange this eventually hopefully!

[Gazza112]

Hi Sunflower99

 

Yes, cars info and letter was of great help.

If you have to sign the letter, the only thing i can surgest is sign it uyour sing your other hand and scan it and keep it in a safe place.

I've not done this myself at them moment, but probably will do this soon.

 

Gaz

[sunflower99]

Hi Gazza! I think that why it is best to use the digital signature programme that Car put a link to on one of the post Maz has told me about it as well! and she uses it!Apparently it is best to do this as very difficult for someone else to use it if it is a digital one though not sure yet exactly how it works! but will look into it soon !Have you looked at link as i think car thinks it is the best way to do signature,!

[Gazza112]

Hi Sunflower99

 

I'll have to have a look at the digital link, and give it a go.

Will hunt for the link for that.

 

Gaz

[car2403]

Hi Gazza! I think that why it is best to use the digital signature programme that Car put a link to on one of the post Maz has told me about it as well! and she uses it!Apparently it is best to do this as very difficult for someone else to use it if it is a digital one though not sure yet exactly how it works! but will look into it soon !Have you looked at link as i think car thinks it is the best way to do signature,!

 

Either that or just make sure the signature you do use is easily recognisable, such as putting extra lines through the signature or adding a "squiggle" that you don't usually use.

 

Basically, if you see this signatur again, you need to be able to recognise it instantly and prove the source of it.

[AA99]

Hi Sunflower99

 

Yes, come to mention it there's no over the limit or late charges on mine either. Unless its in the printing that i can't read for being to small .

Pleased you've got some extra work before christmas. Weekend not been too bad, Still trying to shake of this virus i've got at the moment other than that i'm fine.

 

Gaz

The only time that's happened to me was once the debt had been handed over to the DCA who will be the next to appear with a nasty letter and MBNA's charges plus their own charges making your debt look twice as bad!

[sunflower99]

Hi Car! Thanks for giving me and Gazza help with what to do about signatures !and another thanks for ealier advice about letters,

[sunflower99]

Hi Gazza

It is great that Car has given us some ideas about signature business,!i hope you feel better now ,It is not very nice when you feeling off colour,I hope it not spoiled your weekend to much,I think i have acquired quite a few extra grey hairs over all this worry over debt! My hubby was saying i have gone quite grey over last few months !What a nice man he is! That remark really made my weekend!LOL I suppose id better tip some more hair colour on me soon when i can drag mysellf away from this forum and facebook! LOL

Edited November 2, 2008 by sunflower99

[Gazza112]

Hi Sunflower99

 

Yes, its going to be hard trying to change my signature.

I'll have to stop putting X on the letters, and try another letter that way they would never find out lol.

 

Gaz

[sunflower99]

Hi AA99

so the charges get worse! I think MBNA are one of the worse banks for interest rates,They certainly know how to kick a person when they are down,If they had not been so aggressive and made my life a misery by constantly phonning me at work as well as at home just after a first missed paymnent and i even made quite a large payment to them after that though not enough to catch up on arrears they still bombarded me with phone calls i would not have come across this site in first place as it was pure desperation that made me do a search on MBNA bullying tactics and the first link was to the consumer action forums!so it is their own fault !they broughtit on themselvesthat they are getting all these letters and cca disputes from me! Good on Car ! he is getting us matching MBNA in their own game of trying to intimidate people!I couldent beleive it before i had this major arrear problem with them they even bombarded my work place and phoned my superviser at 8am in morning over an unintentional underpayment of i think if i remember rightly 40 pence!It was unbeleivable!

[sunflower99]

Hi everyone!

I just wanted to ask your advice about MBNAs latest letter they sent me in response to Cars letter challeging the validity of their CCA! if anyone wants to see CCA it is put up in an earlier post on this same thread!Basically MBNA sent me a strange CCA in several bits.The front of it was on a very short scrap of paper and there was not much information on front of it!There was another seperate piece of paper which has terms and conditions on it which i think MBNA are implying is on back of signed bit!It is only on MBNAs say so that the bit they alledge they sent me with ts and cs on it is actually on the back of it!They also sent another bundle of seperate papers which we now know to be probably all current ts and cs on it as the late payment and over the limit charges are set at £12! These charges Hellhasnofury told me were not the correct charges that were in force when i took out card in 2002!They were in that year well over that!about £25 i think! so that seperate bundls of papers are current!On the paper MBNA allege is on back of signed bit i can see no mention of over the limit charges or late charges when i went through it carefully with a strong pair of glasses as the print is so small to read it is almost ineligible!Without asking MBNA to confirm it in writing that the other bit with some ts and cs on it is actually on the back of signed bit which i an sure theywill not as theuy said in this last letter that they were not prepared to correspond with me further about their CCA!and if it went to court and i demanded they show original it may be worrying for them !However even it it did turn out that the short piece of paper with all the ts and cs on it was attached to it would the fact that they did not display the original late charges and over the limit charges in force at the time ! make it unenforceable?anyway?I am going to download letter on my next post! Any advice and opinions would be very welcome! as i am still very new to all this!

[sunflower99]

[Fred Bassett]

 

 

Looks familiar! They are also 'confident' with mine. So confident they've passed it over to IQOR.

 

Fre

[sunflower99]

Hi Fred!

Yes i strongly suspect that it is not an enforceable CCA and that there is in fact nothing on back of that signed bit! Just MBNA trying to impy there is by sending me a piece of paper which just happens to be the same size of the signed bit! LOL,They do not say in writing that those two papers are attached but by sending them like this are hopeing to make people believe they are attached.If it ever went to court i would have to cpr them to make them bring original copies into court. After that they sent me another threatogram saying please help us to help you repay all the money you spent! and you have a legal and moral duty to repay it! No mention of the fact that the majority of money on that account is not actually money i spent but the result of their horrific interest rates and charges as i suspect i probably paid a lot of what i originally spent on their card when i was attempting to cough up well over a £100 a month in minimum repayments most of which was not paying the amont off but just paying interest!

Edited November 15, 2008 by sunflower99

[car2403]

They've been very clever in the wording of their letter.

 

It's up to you how you proceed. You can either go to Court for an order the debt is unenforceable, or you can continue not making payments and see if they take action against you. (They won't - they will sell the debt, continue chasing payments through DCA's and continue recording this inaccurate data with CRA's)

 

Personally, I would (and have done, many times!) take this to Court and force their hand with Civil Procedure Rules.

 

Your call...