Couriers and damaged items

[becausewecan]

Hi there.

 

I sent an item by TNT a couple of days ago - it arrived today and i've been informed that the item was damaged in transit.

 

After speaking to TNT they tell me that unless the goods are signed for as damaged or rejected, then i dont stand a chance of getting anything back and still have to pay for the privielge of sending the goods through their service.

 

Are they legally able to do this?

 

How many times would you even think to open a package in front of the courier (especially if you are signing on behalf of another person) and inspect every aspect of it, and how many couriers would stand and wait while you do it?!

 

Can anyone help me out with this?

 

thanks

[fbnts]

Hi,

 

We had a similar problem the other week - sent a large parcel (valued at £2500) with insurance.

 

They damaged it but claimed it had been signed for so no claim.

 

We found out that the driver left the parcel and forged the slip as they business they delivered to didn't open til 9am (it was 7.30am)

 

To cut a long story short, with a lot of persistance they paid up!

 

As far as I know, the signature is to confirm that the parcel had been received, but they can't say a sealed package is in good condition.

 

Tom

[becausewecan]

Hi Tom,

 

Thanks for that.. the recipients girlfriend singed for the parcel, sureley it is a criminal offence to open something addressed to another person (which is essentially what they are saying the recipients girlfriend should have done). The item was reported as arriving damaged within 5 minutes of being opened.

 

Unfortunately, the signature had not been forged or anything, it was genuinely signed for. But i`m wondering now whether,

 

A) Someone other than the intended recipient should be allowed to sign for an item

 

B) if someone other than the recipient does sign, are they responsible for opening and checking the item?

 

 

Im really unsure as to where i stand here, though it's good to hear that they pay up with a fight

[Conniff]

How many times would you even think to open a package in front of the courier (especially if you are signing on behalf of another person) and inspect every aspect of it, and how many couriers would stand and wait while you do it?!

 

You don't have to open and inspect it, you sign for it 'unchecked' and then you are covered.

[fbnts]

Hi,

 

Firstly I would ask them for a copy of the delivery slip that you signed. Once in receipt check to see if there are any terms on there relating to signing is confirming that the parcel is undamaged and in good condition.

 

Also, I would ask for a claim form anyhow - you should be covered for about £15 per Kg.

 

Tom

[becausewecan]

I dont think it was even signed as unchecked, but the guy on the phone said that even if it was i still dont have a claim.

 

Apparantly any signature is deemed as checked an ok unless stated otherwise and the driver is under no obligation to inform the person signing of this.

 

They say that they will provide me with the delivery slip tomorrow and will discuss it further, but it sounds like i don't have a leg to stand on

[Conniff]

Tnt terms and conditions:

 

 

17. CLAIMS PROCEDURE

 

If you wish to claim for a lost, damaged or delayed shipment you must comply with the following procedure otherwise we reserve the right to reject your claim:

a) you must notify us in writing about the loss, damage or delay within 21 days after delivery of the shipment or within 21 days of the date the shipment should have been delivered and then within the next 21 days you must document your claim by sending us all relevant information about the shipment and the loss, damage or delay suffered. We are not obliged to act on any claim until our carriage charges have been paid nor are you entitled to deduct the amount of your claim from our carriage charges;

b) we will assume the shipment was delivered in good condition unless the receiver has noted any damage on our delivery record when he or she accepted the shipment. In order for us to consider a claim for damage the contents of your shipment and the original packaging must be made available to us for inspection;

c) your right to claim damages against us shall be extinguished unless an action is brought in a court of law within 2 years from the date of delivery of the shipment or from the date on which the shipment should have been delivered or from the date on which the carriage stopped.

 

I would say that is an unfair term

 

Unfair Terms

5. - (1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

 

(2) A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term.

 

I believe though that the contract is between the supplier and the courier.

 

I would get a claim in by writing (recorded) within the 21 days, disputed or not and then once that is in then you can argue the point without them saying you did not set out your claim in writing.

[becausewecan]

Tnt terms and conditions:

 

 

 

 

I would say that is an unfair term

 

 

 

I believe though that the contract is between the supplier and the courier.

 

That's a fantastic post, thank you so much, I am the supplier - i sold an item on ebay and used TNT as the courier as we use them at my office, so at the moment i need to refund the buyer, recover the item and attempt to recover my loss, all because they cannot be careful with a package

[Conniff]

Then get that letter in asap, even before you have recovered the parcel from the buyer.

 

What was the value of the sale?

[becausewecan]

The value was only £90 and brand new replacement would be around £200, the postage cost has not been billed to me as yet but i imagine around £15.

 

I will write to them tomorrow, thanks again for the advice

[Conniff]

My pleasure - keep us informed of how it goes.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

The contract term is not only unfair it is also ambiguous.

Firstly they say you have 21 days to notify damage, then they say they will assume it is undamaged if not notified at the time of delivery.

Any ambiguous contractual term is construed against the drafter (ie TNT) undre the contra proferentum rule.

But then is it really ambiguous?

It only says they will assume. They can assume all they like, it matters not one jot to the facts.

Get the letter in and if the response is unsatisfactory send a letter before the action for the full replacement cost.

[barracad]

As an aside, the reason they expect you to sign for the item as 'damaged' is quite simple - if there are no visible signs of damage to the outside of the item, but the contents are damaged, then it means the internal packaging was insufficient to protect it during transit.

[fbnts]

Hey, further to the above - After they claimed it was signed for as ok we were persistant and they sent a claim form.

 

One thing though, isn't UTCC applicable to consumer contracts and not business contract? (I think TNT only deal with businesses nowadays) however like Bernie says, its rather ambiguous.

 

Our packaging was adequate (It was on the same boxing/bubble wrap that the item had come all the way from South Africa and through Heathrow airport with! But they must have dropped the end of the box which smashed the end of the item.

 

One annoying thing though - they agreed to pay the repair costs but not refund the shipping charge! so its ok for them to charge us to damage the package!?

 

Tom

[becausewecan]

Hi,

 

I've just had tnt on the phone, they said that the claim has been rejected because the goods were not signed as damaged.

 

I've asked for proof of delivery and the rejection letter to be sent to me.

 

This is technically a business transaction as i`m doing it through my office

[fbnts]

Hi,

 

I would still keep pushing - check the delivery slip doesn't state anything about you are signing to confirm that they have receieve the goods in perfect condition.

 

I had them email me a copy of their terms of carriage:

http://www.multiplix.co.uk/terms.pdf

 

Hope this is usful.

 

Tom

[moggieb]

The company I work for deal with TNT on a daily basis. We have no end of problems with them with regard to losing consignments. Providing the claim is submitted correctly we have no problem claiming for loss but damage is a different matter. If its not signed for as 'damaged' they will not pay up. BTW-regarding loss-I heard they once lost an aeroplane:D

[Weird Al Yankovic]

I'm afraid you will have an uphill struggle here.

 

Had you signed 'unchecked' at the point of delivery, with the courier's knowledge, then liability can still be with the carrier.

 

If the courier doesn't want to hang around while you check the contents then tough-either refuse the item or sign for it or tell them to wait while you check.

 

If you sign then you accept it. Even if it's busted up.

 

Why should the carrier be responsible after they have fulfilled their part, ie delivering the item?

[wendies]

hi, I arranged collection from an ebay seller and it was damaged in transit. the carrier has said because it wasnt flat packed as per t's and c's i have no rights to claim, mya rguement is that they shouldnt have collected it if it wasnt packaged correctly and the fault is theirs, any dieas if i'm fighting a losing battle?