versus cabot....almost won i think !!

[scatooony71]

Hi,

 

I have been using this forum to fight a claim by Cabot that i owed them about £700. I was adamant with them from the start that they had the wrong person and i had never had a barclaycard as they claimed.

I bought a copy of my credit file and noticed two defaults on it, one from Cabot one from barclaycard, both filed on the same date and for the same amount!!

 

Having used this excellent site to try and get them to listen i have received the following letter after i asked them for a copy of a credit agreement to prove the debt was mine.

 

 

So now i need the last bit of help.

 

If this is a kind of admission that they can not provide a copy of the credit agreement then what are my options now. My initial goal was to get the defaults removed from my credit file (they have been on for four years without me knowing !!) so where do i go now to achieve this?

 

I cant thank you all enough for the help getting to this point, we almost paid up after getting threatened with court.

 

look forward to reading any replies with help.

 

Thanks again

Scatooony71

[havinastella]

Hi Scatooony,

 

Sorry to **** on your parade but its a standard reply, they'll send you another one saying they will need more time etc etc and when they have no copy whatsoever, they'll still hound you.

 

Jogs

[maroondevo52]

Yup, I've had three of these letters from Cabot, that was about 3 months ago, the only good thing about it is the lack of hassle from them since.

 

I'll have to take things further

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[scatooony71]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies.

 

I am confused now, What is the point of the 14 working days then 30 calender days time period for a cca request if they can just ignore it and write saying they need more time?

 

I don't want to give them more time, i have already given them the time i thought they were allowed, they cant comply, so they should take the default of my credit history surely. The debt is not mine, its not just an attempt at avoiding paying.

 

Would it be worth getting in touch with equifax and asking them what i can do?, What about the financial ombudsman? cant they force them to stop the letters and get the defaults removed?

 

Thanks again for the help.

 

Scatooony71

[maroondevo52]

Hi, Scatooony.

 

I know what you mean.

 

You could try sending them this.........

 

 

 

 

Formal Complaint

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

With reference to my previous letters, I wish to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

You have failed to comply with request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law. Furthermore, if this non-compliance continues for a further month then a summary, criminal offence is committed.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party.

* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

 

 

Not sure if they would respond.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[scatooony71]

Hi,

 

Thanks maroondevo, its got to be worth a try.

 

I might add on that because they can not provide a signed copy of any agreement then they must not have my permission to share information with third parties etc so the should remove any defaults listed with credit reference agencies.

 

Thanks for the template.

[IdaInFife]

Wehn they do default - complaing to OFT as they are chasing you for a debt that is not yours, remeber to adv OFT they have placed defaults on your credit file etc

 

In fact, on scond thoughts, I would complain now as this debt is not yours

 

ida

[scatooony71]

Hi,

 

Thanks again for the template maroondevo, I have made a couple of small changes to make it more in line with my situation and would appreciate any feedback.

 

 

 

 

22nd June 2008

 

 

 

 

Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited,

P.O. Box No. 241,

West Mailing,

Kent,

ME19 4NE

REF: xxxxxxxx

 

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to you or anyone you represent.

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of 05/06/08, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On the 25/04/08 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 15/05/08.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days your client commits a summary criminal offence.

 

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

And

 

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore this alleged account has become unenforceable at law.

 

You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

From the first contact between myself and your company I have strongly denied that this alleged debt is, or has ever belonged to myself

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

Mr xxxxx

[pt2537]

Hi

 

i would rethink the S10 /12 Notice part

 

a s10 notice requires that you outline the damage / distress that you are likely to suffer due to their continued processing, i have personally see this kind of thing fail because of it, and on one occasion the person sought to enforce the S10 notice in court and was thrown out

 

i personally would serve them a notice seperately via recorded delivery

 

regards

 

Paul

[scatooony71]

Hi pt2537,

 

Thanks for the advice,

 

The goal i am trying to achieve is that they remove a default from my credit file. The debt is not mine and this is backed up by the fact they can not provide any information that i ask for.

 

I am struggling to find a way to achieve this, i Know for a fact that i have suffered because of the default notice, the reason i know about it was my mortgage company contacted me about it when i was buying my house, it caused loads of hassle and I'm sure i could have gotten a better deal if it wasn't on my file,

 

I think its unbelievable they can ruin my credit file without making sure they have the right person.

 

If this letter isn't the correct way to getting the default removed then how can i do it?

 

Thanks again for the advice.

[pt2537]

Hi Scatooony,

 

ok, well quite simply if the debt is not yours nor do you have any links with it or know where its come from then you should be on the attack from that point of view

 

what i mean is that they should ensure that they have the correct person and that the data they are sharing is accurate, now quite simply in this case from what you are saying it is not.

 

so i would raise a formal complaint with the Credit Reference Agencies , i would send them a S10/12 Notice demanding that they cease processing your data on the grounds that you are not the debtor nor have they provided any information to the contrary , the grounds for damage is clear, the processing is damaging your ability to obtain credit or a mortgage and it is incorrect data that they are sharing with the credit reference agencies

 

i would write to Cabsnot with a covering letter as well as the S10/12 notice,

 

in the covering letter i would oputline that you are not the debtor, they have failed to provide any supporting evidence to the contrary and they should remove all data they have added to your credit file within the time frame set out in the S10 notice, if they fail to do so, then you may take the matter before the court

 

in addition you will make a formal complaint to Trading Standards, the OFT, your MP and anyone else who will listen

[scatooony71]

Hi,

 

Its took a while but i can now post an update!

 

I took your advice (thanks again) and sent Cabot a letter which roughly followed the template and basically said they had the wrong debtor and that i wanted them to remove any info they held on me and stop processing my data etc.

 

I got this letter in response:

 

 

 

 

 

 

sorry about the images quality. it is all one letter and the same size text in the original !!!

 

Now the way i read this they are saying that they are allowed to keep my data because i have given my consent (condition 1), I presume the are refering to a signed credit agreement. They do not have one because one does not exist!

 

They also seem to be using Condition 2 which again talks about a contract, Without a credit agreement what contract could there be?

 

Am i missing something here or are they saying we can not provide any evidence of a contract but because we THINK there is one then we will keep hounding you and processing your data?

 

Any ideas of where to go with this or is it time to go straight to the regulators?

 

Thanks again.

[Thebhoy]

Hi scatoooney71

 

good luck with your case.

 

I have been in a similar position for 7 years with different DCA harassing me for payments for someone elses debts and know the grief it will be causing you.

 

I have also had defaults and CCJ's linked to me via links created on my credit files by the various dca and creditors.

 

I have also been refused credit because of this

 

If you haven't already contacted the OFT I would suggest doing so asap just to have the problem and DCA logged. - it is very important that you complain to the OFT even if it just means the company name is listed

 

Contact your MP - just to show you are trying every avenue to have it resolved.

 

Contact the CRA's - request your files -then write to them again clearly stating which aspects are wrong and demanded these are addressed.

Also demand they send you copies to confirm that the changes have been made.

If it is not done then write again and send a copy of the letters and complaints to John Hutton secretary of state for BERR and request his department take up your case with the CRA's - in my case it was his under secretary who chased them - even this was screwed up by the CRA'S and I sent a them a 'blunt' letter which resulted in my case being actioned - my files have now been cleaned up (at least they were to June).

 

For the last five months I have been harassed by and agent acting for Cabot and I was unfortunate to have been caught on the phone by them recently - usual threats about bankruptcy and papers being served on me this week.

Told them to send them and let's go to court and get it settled once and for all and that I would be claiming damages, compensation and costs.

 

I contacted the police and also went through what was happening and how stressful it had been - told them I could understand how so many people have taken their lives as a consequence of the DCA's actions - when I said I was at breaking point and didn't know how much more I could take this caused them alarm -I had to laugh when I said I didn't mean I would harm myself but more along the lines of going knocking 'someones' door and adding to the crime statistics and then ending up in a cell.

 

I was given some good advice and they also agreed I should let them take me to court so it would cost them etc.

Also to see CAB about a lawyer who will provide the service I need at better rates than I had been quoted by solicitors I have contacted and to get legal letters sent.

 

Have also re-contacted OFT, will be re-contacting my MP and have just received paperwork through from the FOS to requesting additional information so they can take up my case.

 

I am sure you have found it difficult to find sources of help as you are not the actual debtor - that had been my problem and the members of this site have been fantastic.

 

Keep up the fight and don't let the Barstewards get you down!!!

 

 

Thebhoy

[scatooony71]

Hi,

 

Just been reading the letters again, Does anyone know if this will be a personal response to my letter or if it could be a standard generated letter they send to everyone who asks for them to stop processing their data?

 

Its just the more i read it the more it doesnt make sense for them to keep mentioning a contract when thats the one thing they can not provide me a copy of ?

 

 

Thanks

David.

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

More than likely standard, they've got a big pile on a desk with some letter sending monkey overworked

[scatooony71]

Hi,

While i write my response to the last letter from cabot i have a question i need answered!

 

If a DCA is unable to provide a C.C.A within 12 days they then default and can not demand any payments while the account is in dispute, Correct?

 

They are then allowed another 30 calender days to provide the CCA but what does it mean if they dont?

 

If you read through my posts you willl see that cabot can not provide a CCA and are well over the 30 days now but they dont seem that bothered so what is the point of the 30 days? what does it actually mean to them if they cant provide it?.

 

ps. Any help in composing a response letter to the last cabot letter i had would be appreciated.

 

Thanks as always.

[scatooony71]

Hi,

I have just quickly jotted down a response to cabots last letter. I am not the best letter writer in the world so some constructive critisism or some pointers would be very welcome[/font]

 

 

Thanks as always

 

 

 

 

 

30th July 2008

 

 

Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited,

P.O. Box No. 241,

West Mailing

Kent,

ME19 4NE

 

REF: xxxxxxxx

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to you or anyone you represent.

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of 22/07/08, the contents of which have been noted.

 

On the 25/04/08 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. As you readily admit you have failed to provide me with said agreement.

In your letter (dated 22/07/08) you draw my attention to paragraphs 1 and 2 of schedule 2 of the Data Protection Act which states that:

1) The data subject has given his consent to the processing of any personal data.

2) The processing is necessary for the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party.

Can I draw your attention to the fact that both of these conditions would only be valid if a true signed copy of an agreement was available? Without out this agreement I cannot understand how you can claim to have my consent to process my data.

 

I would also like to point out that the true signed copy of the agreement is needed by yourselves before you can make any claim to a contract between me and your company.

As a result of your reply I now feel your company has no interest in helping me resolve this complaint and you are leaving me no option but to end communication with you and your company and contact the relevant authorities, including but not exclusive to, the financial ombudsman service and the information commissioner’s office.

However, to reciprocate your gestures of goodwill, I will allow you 7 days from receipt of this letter to re assess your position. I would ask that you read through my letter (dated 06/07/08) and act on my request. If I do not receive a satisfactory response within 7 days I will assume that you stand by your original response and I will make an official complaint to the relevant authorities.

Edited July 31, 2008 by scatooony71

[scatooony71]

why is it putting all the font info into the reply?????

 

Copy and pasting from ms word!!!

[stikky62]

It does that with MS word for some reason. Just go back and edit the font tags out ;-)

 

Subbing

[scatooony71]

Hi,

 

Ok, I have edited the letter and removed all the stuff that ms word added. It still is putting smileys instead of 8's but i think you can get the idea of the letter.

 

 

Thanks again.

[NailPost]

Before taking your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman (FOS) and the Info Commissioner you need to have exhausted the debt collector's complaints procedure.

 

As far as I can see you have made contact with them but not yet invoked this procedure. Most of the letter you have prepared is great but instead of telling them I'm closing my file on you ask them for this complaints procedure. they must have one as a condition of their consumer credit licence and must send it out on request.

 

They have eight weeks from receipt of the complaint to resolve the situation to your satisfaction. If they don't then you can take it further.

 

If Cabot play dumb and don't send you the complaints procedure details then you can interpret that as a refusal and go straight to the FOS adding their failure to provide you with this documentation into their list of misdemeanours.

[scatooony71]

Hi,

 

Good advice as usual.

 

If you look back at post number 8 the last part of the letter states that it is now a formal complaint, Should they have sent out their complaints procedure then or do i have to specifically ask for it?

 

 

Cheers.

[scatooony71]

Hi all,

 

Its been a while since i last updated because i thought it had all been sorted.....but !!!

 

I recieved a pack through the post today from cabot, inside was the following bits.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This hasnt been doctored by me, this is exactly how it came !

 

 

 

 

also in the pack were some statements from 2001 till 2003 showing they last recieved a payment on 16/07/03 (the credit card company not cabot).

 

They also sent two sheets of photo copied terms and conditions for a monument credit card.

 

Now from the start i have said i know nothing of the debt, i still stand by that. The first picture that shows the signed part of the " agreement" does look like my handwriting and my signature (i have deleted them off before posting on here) but it looks like an application for credit, in fact it is stamped by them with "subject to approval". It also isnt attatched to anything so could relate to anything surely. Now i cant remember in 2001 if i applied for a credit card of them or not.

 

My other problem is that the terms and conditions they have sent me are for a monument credit card and the signed application is for providian credit card. monument took over providian in January 2004 but the signature of mine is dated 23/09/01 so its impossible for this to be the correct terms and conditions at the time of the signature.

 

The statements worry me also, They have my name and address on but i have never owned a providian credit card and as such have never made any payments to them. how could this happen???

 

Where do i stand legally now, have they really provided what they needed to under CCA rules or are they trying to bluff me?

 

Your help is always appreciated, thanks.

[pt2537]

Hi all,

 

Its been a while since i last updated because i thought it had all been sorted.....but !!!

 

I recieved a pack through the post today from cabot, inside was the following bits.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This hasnt been doctored by me, this is exactly how it came !

 

 

 

 

also in the pack were some statements from 2001 till 2003 showing they last recieved a payment on 16/07/03 (the credit card company not cabot).

 

They also sent two sheets of photo copied terms and conditions for a monument credit card.

 

Now from the start i have said i know nothing of the debt, i still stand by that. The first picture that shows the signed part of the " agreement" does look like my handwriting and my signature (i have deleted them off before posting on here) but it looks like an application for credit, in fact it is stamped by them with "subject to approval". It also isnt attatched to anything so could relate to anything surely. Now i cant remember in 2001 if i applied for a credit card of them or not.

 

My other problem is that the terms and conditions they have sent me are for a monument credit card and the signed application is for providian credit card. monument took over providian in January 2004 but the signature of mine is dated 23/09/01 so its impossible for this to be the correct terms and conditions at the time of the signature.

 

The statements worry me also, They have my name and address on but i have never owned a providian credit card and as such have never made any payments to them. how could this happen???

 

Where do i stand legally now, have they really provided what they needed to under CCA rules or are they trying to bluff me?

 

Your help is always appreciated, thanks.

Hi

 

Quite simply what you have been provided is an improperly executed agreement ( see s65(1) CCA)

 

now that document is not enforceable save for an order of the court

 

turning to s127(3) CCA you will see that the court is prohibited from making such an order if the document fails to contain the prescribed terms, which this document does;)

 

so it is very possible that Cabsnot have brought a duff one

[scatooony71]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the quick response PT.

 

Qoute "Quite simply what you have been provided is an improperly executed agreement ( see s65(1) CCA)

 

now that document is not enforceable save for an order of the court

 

turning to s127(3) CCA you will see that the court is prohibited from making such an order if the document fails to contain the prescribed terms, which this document does:wink:

 

so it is very possible that Cabsnot have brought a duff one"

 

 

What would my next move be? Do i just ignore them now as they cant enforce the alleged debt or do i need to write them a letter stateing that they still have not complied with my CCA request and therefore make a formal complaint?

 

Thanks again.