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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Welcome Finance Investigation


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dipply

 

ive had another result against welcome today

another cager has also won, they did not even turn up in court

two in one day, not bad

 

seriouse now

 

this biz ref insurance tax has welcome very worried

 

they just dont want to answer those questions in court do they

 

cattles share price now at 12 pence

 

looking good { not }

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interesting bit of news has come my way

 

been to a forum where all the hooray henrys {stock brokers} debate companies, buy or sell

 

looked up cattles and there i am, postggj and animal lover,

cag gets a plug to

 

they are all worried about buying shares as they expect a flood of claims ref lousy agreements and ppi claims.

 

cattles have not told the share holders if they have put funds asside to meet these claims

 

it seems indirectly ime responsable for the volatility of the share price

 

SHAME

 

 

CATTLES SHARE PRICE 11P

 

Re: muppet| Discussion| CTT| CTT.L| GB0001803666 | Cattles PLC - Interactive Investor

Edited by postggj
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Hi all, so sorry for the absence, have had some troubles. I see I missed some fun then!

 

Postggj, I see you are causing them all sorts of mayhem :D, well done lol.

 

Right, the tax. animal lover, I have went over the figures they sent you in that statement of price and there are big questions to ask now. I have dug up as much as I can on this IPT and:

 

To get the amount of IPT incurred simply divide your premium by 21.

Check the £175 premium for the '1st person PAP' - IPT incurred £8.33.

That works out fine.

Now check your PPI premium....IPT incurred should be £29.76 - not £25.02.

So something doesn't add up, how much was actually paid to the insurer then and how much was commission? Why is there no breakdown of that?

Even then the commission is taxable anway!

 

Here's what I really want clarified by HMRC - they state that the interest charged for paying up the premium is also taxable EXCEPT where the charge is made under a separate contract, for example, a contract regulated by the Consumer Credit Act.

 

They key word there is seperate - there is nothing seperate on your agreement. The PPI, interest, loan etc is all lumped together. There is not even a breakdown showing the seperate interest charge for the PPI. This could mean they should be paying tax on the interest also.....

 

As for there pathetic letter? They have said to ask Direct Group about the actual payment of IPT, except Direct Group claim to only be an admin call centre that deals with the claims etc.

 

So have Welcome just admitted to you that they have not paid Norwich Union, or the tax man, anything? Direct Group say they don't even deal with that......so how is Norwich Union and the tax man getting paid then :confused:

 

Am going to go and amend the letters I have been working on now for this ;)

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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Just a thought, has anyone SAR'd Direct Group? There has to be an audit trail here to follow:

 

Welcome charge premium and interest - all on same contract

Welcome calculate tax on less than the full premium - why?

Welcome claim to pay the premium to Direct Group - do they really and how much is actually paid?

Direct Group then do what with the money? Pay who, how much and what documentation is there to prove this? (Underwriting sheet etc?)

Does the insurer pay the tax man - if so, how much? the amount due on the premium they receive or the amount due on what Welcome actually charged?

 

Thinking out loud, hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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I've recieved letter from C.A.B on behalf of Trading Standards.

 

It says that the Welcome Agreement(first one recieved posted on the first page of theisthread) is unenforceable as it's not a valid agreement. It does not contain all the prescribed terms and is not validly signed.

 

However, neither, CAB or Trading Standards can predict with certain authority what decision a court would take.

 

It also says i have two options i can either write to the creditors stating that i feel the agreement is unenforceable and make no payments. they will either do nothing or issue court proceedings for the amount due under the contract terms.

 

Dipply (I'm also updating my work problem thread if you wish to take a look at it :)

 

AL

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Just a little update.

 

Recieved letter from FOS to say that my complaint is waiting to be passed to an adjudicator. I recieved it a couple of days after i sent the update letter regarding the IPT etc.... and nothing was mentioned about it just that they have everything they need.

 

Do you think it includes the recent letter or should i contact them to let them know i have sent another letter to be added to my original complaint and to not pass it to an adjudicator yet?

 

Also i sent a dispute letter to all three CRA'S regarding the default on all three of my files that Welcome have put on explaining that i never recieved a default notice and they wont send me a copy of it blabla

 

Anyway recieved letter from Welcome today from there English Legal Department saying

 

Final Response to your complaint

 

Thank You for bringing it to our attention the enquiry regrding the default record on this account. (I haven't sent anything to Welcome regarding my default since my SAR request must of been a CRA that informed then Nice to know they still do something that you kindly ask them too).

I have know reviewed all outstanding issues and thank you for remaining patient while this matter was under investigation.(Didn't know the matter was under investigation i sent the letter to the CRA'S on the 21st Jan this is the first thing i've heard from them about it.)

After looking into your complaint I have found that we have not recieved a payment on this account since the 29th December 2006. please find enclosed a copy of the statement of account to show my findings(All true but that's only because they added PPI without knowlegde so couldn't keep up with payments also was out of work sick a few months later which i explained to them)

Here's the best bit

We are pleased to advise that we can accept a short settlement on this account as full and final payment to clear the debt. This offer is valid for 21 days from the date of this letter. This offer is to clear the amount with one payment of £xxxx.xx.(they must be hard up)

I hope you are satisfied with the outcome of our investigations

 

Yours sincerely bla bla

 

I also noticed on the envelope it doesn't say Welcome anymore it says Cattles. Don't know if it means anything.

 

They also still haven't supplied me with the default notice and i've spoe to ICO today it's gonna be at least another 2/3 months till they get to my complaint regarding Welcome.

 

Please can anyone give me any pointers as to what to put in my letter back to them about this.

 

Thanks

 

AL

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I guess the only way to know about uneforceability for sure is to consult a solicitor.

'rise like lions after slumber, in unvanquishable number, shake your chains to the earth like dew, which in sleep had fall'n on you, ye are many, they are few.' Percy Byshse Shelly 1819

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great! I know not all their agreements are the same but the older ones seem to be. A barrister stated -UNENFORCEABLE!!

'rise like lions after slumber, in unvanquishable number, shake your chains to the earth like dew, which in sleep had fall'n on you, ye are many, they are few.' Percy Byshse Shelly 1819

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Just a thought, has anyone SAR'd Direct Group? There has to be an audit trail here to follow:

 

Dipply75 I SAR'd Direct Group - No response however I do have in writing confirmation from them that they are an insurance adminstrator and they go on to say basically they process claims for a number of different companies - they are really an insurance claim call centre. The do not hold, sell nor underwrite any insurance policies.

 

Norwich Union on the other hand have been extremely helpful and have given me plenty of information without the need for a SAR they have tracked every policy I have held that has been underwritten and provided by them. I had a car insurance policy with them directly in 2004-2005 and I had a policy underwritten by them sold by Asds in 2005-2007 however I do not now or have ever had PPI, Life Assurance and Accident Cover that I am told by Welcome Norwich Union underwrite - I also have written correspondance from the section supervisor that they have no record of my bar the 2 car insurances policies I have had. The correspondance also confirms any policy on an individual they underwrite but don't sell directly they should still have a record of.

 

Extremely funny....again like you thinking out loud, can't wait to get Welcome back in court roll on March!

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Hey Animal Lover, got some interesting reading for you and a few more people to pester for info :)

 

Check out the Direct Group website - especially the "services" section and "premium collection". They claim to be the middle man, including taking the payments, accounting for them, dishing out to the insurer and keeping all the records for this to FSA standards...according to this they should have full records of everything! I wonder whythey are not being up front about this hten?

 

Direct Group - Where Insurance and Innovation Combine - Home Page

 

You could start by e-mailing the guy listed on the FSA register as their complaints/insurance contact:

 

FSA Register

 

Try sending him your letter with all the IPT questions and enclose a copy of Welcomes response lol, see what happens!

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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Very interesting thread i hope your progressing well AL! I have had 3 accounts with Welcome and will be starting a thread for help getting PPI back as they added it to every loan never gave me option and never asked about medical history, i could be due a small fortune! lol.

 

Best of luck

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Hi folks

I have followed this whole saga through and feel compelled to say a big 'well done' to all of tha caggers(especially postggl and Dipply75).

I am glad that someone is looking into this bunch of cowboys,i am having some fun with them at the moment (postggl-thanks for your input).My issues with welcome seemtrivial compared to some but now i feel a real moral crusade coming on just to give them someone else to deal with.

Dipply75 and postggl very interesting news on Welcome and Cattles being in trouble (am going to do further homework on that one).

It would be poetic justice for a company that systematically preyed on financially vulnerable people to go under!!.

Also on a personal note, i was most amused with your handling of formerwelcomeemployee!! although it did sound like he was an office drone reading from a prearranged script (probably looking for brownie points)

 

Once again well done everyone

 

Malakorah ( or just plain Mal !!)

 

:D

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Hey animal Lover, how are you getting on :), any news from anyone?

 

I am gonna have to update my thread soon, have just left it hanging! I think you should send an e-mail to that contact at Direct Group with your premium, insurer and tax questions and include that letter from Welcome stating that Direct Group can advise. You could also ask for a ref or policy number to help Norwich Union trace the premium and policy as they cannot find any record of it, they obviously need it to investigate your complaint to them about Welcomes behaviour in selling this policy on their behalf.

 

If they cannot (or will not) give then I would update the fsa that you are concerned you were sold something which may not even exist and no-one is able to give you basic proof of.

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi everyone

 

Sooooooo sorry for the long delay in replying firstly i was on holiday and then a day after i came back i was omitted to hospital but i'm alot better know.

 

I'll get right onto contacting the guy on the FSA register and Direct group i'm having a few problems with my internet at the moment aswell - it only comes on when it feels like it.

 

Once i recieve a reply from anyone i will update the thread

 

AL

 

Also i sent a complaint to all 3 CRA's as i mentioned in one of the above post about my Default with Welcome have told them that it's accurate and not to move it even though they have no copy/proof of the default being added.

 

Is there anything else i can do to get them to remove it

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Yes you can write back (special delivery) & tell that you don't care that they believe their 'paying' client, as it was to be expected, but you reiterate that the data is inaccurate & if they continue to record it you will, in addition to reporting them to the ICO, take legal advice with a view to seeking compensation for defamation

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Animal Lover,

 

I had an interesting conversation with DG re these policies and was even clever enough to the send another SAR to get a transcript of the phone conversation :)

Basically it went along the lines of, they are insisting they are insurance administrators so hold policy details but do not sell, underwrite them etc and any complaints about the policies have to be dealt with by WF - I asked who got the money for the policies then did DG get it - the answer NO!!!

Hmmmmm mind in overdrive now.......

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey Animal Lover, things are getting interesting again.

 

Let us know how you are, hope you are well :)

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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Hi Dipply.

 

What's happening know?

 

I'm ok i'm not too well at the moment - it comes and goes.Thanks for asking

 

I've not had chance to contact the man on the FSA register also the page keeps going blank when i click on it.

 

Do you remember his name and i'll see if i can find out another way.

 

Thanks

 

AL

Edited by animal_lover
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Hiya, we were missing you! Sorry to hear you are feeling poorly, really hope it passes quickly :)

 

Will post a link, you should read if you get time, its all went a bit Eastenders lol, plots everywhere!

 

The groundwork you have done is invaluable, the response from Direct Group and Welcome recently on the tax etc. Postggj is ready to expose quite a lot, so may help you get some money back from them hopefully.

 

Another cagger, Andie303, is fighting them at court just now and that outcome can prove very good for you.....hoping we can get some good news to cheer you up with ;)

 

Oh, and you will probably notice a lot more 'guests' on your thread watching...evening welcome.

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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