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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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Questions from : Have you received threatening demands for debts older than 6 years?


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Quotes from the Daily Hansard Parliamentary Debate regarding Debt Collection and the Consumer Credit Act on 22 April 2009 beginning at column 338.

 

At column 341 Mr Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock) (Lab) states:

 

The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” [my emphasis added]

 

At column 342 The Minister for Trade, Development and Consumer Affairs (Mr. Gareth Thomas) states:

 

“The OFT would expect the debt collection agency concerned to have checked the accuracy of the client data details that it received from the creditor or agency, and, where possible, to have obtained a copy of the original consumer credit agreement.” [my emphasis added]

 

See the original Hansard publication on the link below:

 

House of Commons Hansard Debates for 22 Apr 2009 (pt 0019)

 

HTH

 

Regards – Richard.

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Have you received threats of legal action in respect of debts older than 6 years?

 

Although if you are in debt, you will continue to owe the money until it is paid off, after 6 years the debt is probably statute barred which means that the creditor will have lost his right to sue for the money.

 

Despite this, debt collectors frequently rely on people's ignorance of the law or their fear by making threats of legal action to recover debts even though these threats are unenforceable.

 

The making of a threat is dishonest.

 

Now, the new CPUT Regulations 2008 (Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations) may make such unprofessional behaviour unlawful.

 

If you have received such threats, you should not respond to the debt collector but you should write a letter of complaint to the OFT who are obliged to investigate your complaint and to take enforcement action of some kind if they agree with you.

 

See the new explanatory notes on the 2008 CPUT regs at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/146460-consumer-protection-unfair-trading.html

 

Please do let us know if you are taking any action under CPUT as we would like to keep ourselves updated on how useful it is.

 

Anyone been successful with this? I have so far identified breaches under Regulations 5, 6 and 7, together with 3 of the banned practices in schedule 1.

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Hi all,

 

I think this maybe the place to find someone to kindly answer a few a questions in my thread regarding statute? Please help.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/193541-hfo-services-hassle-4.html

 

All the information is at the link above, i've had some great advice so far and learned so much I did not know until coming to this site. Just need to clear up if this debt of mine would be classed as statute barred even though I have made payments AFTER the statute barred period. Last payment to the OC 15/3/00, Default date (HFO have said this date) 15/12/00. DD set up 27/11/06, first paid DD 15/12/06

Basically would this be a statute barred if I had no contact between these dates?

Edited by HFwho?
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hi guys,just joined, i used to have a mortgage with the halifax,joint with g/f at the time,we split up and i left her with the flat in 1994 she gave the flat back to them witch they sold and she had to pay a 1,300 short fall which she did, i have never heard from the halifax since i left in 1994,i now have merrils ede solicitors sending me letters asking for £13013.31 re- -shortfall, i have not talked or written back, they now are sending letters saying they will take me to court and make me bankrupt and so on,now had two phone calls,one today saying if they dont hear back today then thats what they will do,what do i do help,can they make me pay after all this time?hoping u good people can stop me from shaking.thanks.

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Hi Masterfullone,

 

Firstly don't worry and stop shaking! You have come to the right place for help.

 

I am sure that it is 12 years on mortgages for it to be statute barred and either way that you look at it, you are well within the timescales. Do a quick search on this website or I'm hoping that one of the site team will chip in too.

 

In doing the search on the site, I'm hoping that you will find a template letter to send to their solicitors that is similar to the 6 years statued barred letters but obviously changed for mortgages.

 

Whatever you do, don't call them - companies like this prey on peoples ignorance of the law.

 

When you do write back to them, also quote the recent ruling from the OFT re Mackenzie Hall which specifically mentions statute barred agreements.

 

Hope this helps for now but don't forget, it is not as bad as it seems!

 

Good luck,

 

BB

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Loans secured by deed (mortgages) must be enforced within 12 years from the last payment/default otherwise they are time barred under the Limitations Act & can no longer be enforced. - Tell them this & remind them it is a breach of the OFT guidelines to attempt to enforce the unenforceble - Furthermore for a solicitor to do so, as they should know better, it could be argued that they are guilty of a criminal act as per the 2006 Fraud Act

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Thanks JonCris, i have amended the 6 year template,now at the bottom it says Yours faithfully now should i type my full name ,i know not to sign it,or should i leave it blank,,and await there reply,many thanks guys i will sleep easy tonight.

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Hi there,

 

I have an outstanding amount with T-mobile for £248.00, they wrote to me around last July time saying they'd sent the debt to Fredricksons but then when i went to pay it Fredricksons said they had returned the debt to T-mobile. when my circumstances changed i automatically wrote to T-mobile who informed me it had again been passed back to Fredricksons, which i was informed that it hadn't...

 

Obviously somewhere communication between these have gone to poop but the debt is from about 2003, does this mean that i could actually get this debt wiped off or would i have to write to them again and see what is actually going on?

 

thank you for any help! :)

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Can somebody just advise me on one point.

 

“Under the Limitation Act 1980, which applies to England and Wales, a debt is considered to be statute barred when no payments have been made against it or where it has not been acknowledged for six years. A statute barred debt cannot be legally recovered. Whilst the OFT accepts that the debt still exists, the OFT considers that it can be unfair to pursue the debt in the circumstances set out in our Debt Collection Guidance

 

 

When its says OFT accepts the debt exists , what does this actually mean to somebody with a statue debt? if it cannot be legally recovered, then how does it still exist ?? Just thought that bit was a bit odd and wanted to query it.

 

Thanks

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Basically the debt still exists because they say u had the money and because no attempt has been made to pay the money back. The law states that they cant legally be recovered meaning nothing can be done threw the courts.

 

The company can ask u to pay the money back but u are under no obligation to do so.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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I would just add that the 6 or 12 year periods can begin running again upon the admission of a debt by the debtor i.e. by offering to pay an instalment or, indeed, declining to pay an instalment due to not having the wherewithal. It is prudent to be very careful not to unwittingly admit a debt, particularly towards the end of the initial 6/12 year period as some creditors attempt this or even attribute phantom payments to accounts in order to claim a payment has been made and thus running the clock again.

 

HTH – Richard

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not really richard if you admitt the debt in writing or you make payment after the initial 6 years then they are classed as token payments towards the debt. If it is done before the 6 years is up then the clock starts ticking again.

 

Just so others dont get confused there are different rules on Statue barred for different type of items.

 

unsecured money, eg Credit cards, loans, catalogues etc

 

the statue of limitations states 6 years of non payment non admittance and non contact.

 

Morgages

there are 2 parts of Statue barred for morgages if they have not contacted you within 6 years of the house being repossessed then after 6 years they can not claim intrest on the debt, but they can claim the first 6 years just not any more. After 12 years of no contact they cannot claim anything from you.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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Fraid GM is correct Richard a payment AFTER 6 years is only a token payment & does not make the debt enforceable. In fact you could if so inclined demand reimbursement of such monies.

 

However you are correct when you refer to phantom payments appearing on an account within the 6 years causing the clock to start ticking all over again. Also whilst it shouldn't be if they understood the law it's important NOT to admit a debt in court. If asked direct the question away by pointing out, repeatedly if necessary, that you maintain that any such debt would & is time barred

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Richard is correct, you are both reading his post as covering all situations. He has only referred to contact and the clock within the first 6 years for CCA or 12 years for mortgage.

 

To expand upon the declining payment, an example is writing within the Limitation period acknowledging the debt but stating you cannot afford to pay.

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make them activ runners is absolutely correct, any acknowledgement of the debt is unwise, be it over the phone or through writing. If you have any debts coming up for 6 years, avoid discussing them at all costs! Worked for my student overdraft :D

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not really richard ... If it is done before the 6 years is up then the clock starts ticking again.

 

 

"Not really"? I concur with your assertion that the clock begins again upon admission during either the 6 or 12 year limitation period - as I stated previously.

 

 

Fraid GM is correct Richard a payment AFTER 6 years is only a token payment & does not make the debt enforceable.

 

 

A concur JonCris; I did not suggest anything otherwise!

 

 

Richard is correct, you are both reading his post as covering all situations. He has only referred to contact and the clock within the first 6 years for CCA or 12 years for mortgage.

 

 

Thank you for your comment MTAR.

 

In conclusion; I apologise if my clumsy interjection caused any misunderstanding. Off course my opinion should not be relied upon. Nevertheless, simply put it is my understanding that under English law the basic premiss is that a simple contract is actionable up to a period of 6 years from the date of default or one of the parties cease performance or the admission of said default or cessation and a contact under seal is actionable up to 12 years.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Richard.

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i hope i am wrong but i think my point might be worth noting on this thread

 

although there are clearly more than 12 years since you last had any contact with the mortgagor, i presume the mortgage was in joint names

 

now if your EX has had dealings with the bank within the last 12 years

she may have "dropped you in it"

 

i say this because you are both jointly and severally liable for the debt and i have this feeling that if ONE OF YOU admits or makes payments to the debt then it probably will be a joint and several liability

 

perhaps might be worth getting legal advice on this point unless someone has a definative answer from a legal background

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  • 2 weeks later...

In Ferguson -v- British Gas [2009]. Mrs Ferguson was chased by BG for a non existent debt. The Court of Appeal awarded her £10,000 plus costs for harrasment by BG, by virtue of the Protection from Harrasment Act 1997.

 

The case is interesting because it is about erroneous debt collection practices and referrals to credit reference agencies.

 

You can download the case from the British & Irish Legal Institute's (BAILI) website. A link to the case is below.

Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009)

 

There is also another case which name I do not know whereby the harasser was ordered to pay the "debtor" over £100,000 because he had been forced into a mortgage at exhorbitant rates because of referrals to credit reference agencies. As soon as I have the case I shall post its location here.

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Hi Lawtcrav,

 

What you have posted is very interesting not only on statute barred accounts but also there may be some use when arguing against non existant CCA's.

 

I would be interested to see the case history from the mortgage case when you have it.

 

Is digging up info like this a hobby, vocation or living for you?

 

BB

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it seems to be a popular case on here the British gas one. I have seen it in at lease 3/4 different places.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

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