anything we can do

[amandaf]

hi there,

firstly a big hello to everyone i am writing this on behalf of my partner.On the 22/12/07 my husband took our children to the pictures and parked in robin leisure park and parked in a disabled parking space(i know,tut,tut).May i add he drives a company vehicle wich is a citroen van,he came out to discover the parking ticket,came home found your very informative website and decided to do nothing till they contacted him obviously via work,he informed his brotherto pass any letters to him, the said company it is family run business.Then on the 20th recieved a letter from cms uk ltd informing if we did not pay £80 within 7 days then it would be £130 the reason being for not displaying a valid disabled badge.My husbands brother recieved the letter totally forgot and gave my husbands name and address as the driver.Do you think we should pay this obviously by the 27/05/08 otherwise we would have to pay the £130.From what i have read his brother as already told them he was the driver,my husband does usually have sole access to this vehicle he his the delivery driver, but anyone within the company can use it,any help template letters etc,would be greatly appreciated,thankyou in advance and the kindest of regards

amanda

[spiritgirl59]

Hi amanda

 

As the van was parked in a disabled bay and the driver is not disabled and therefore doesn't possess a disabled badge, I doubt if there is any defence.

 

If it was me personally I would pay up as the costs of not doing so will just escalate.

 

Just my personal opinion, others may have different advice.

 

Best wishes

SG x

[patdavies]

However, leaving the moral issue aside and dealing with the legal side of this,

 

On a private car park, a disabled bay has no legal standing - the markings are effectively graffiti. A Blue Badge is not issued for use on private car parks - it's function is to allow use of marked disabled parking (or otherwise) on the public highway or council parking. I will not be entering into any debate about the propriety or the moral issues of someone using a disabled bay when not disabled.

 

As this is private property, it is a private parking company that has issued this ticket - it is, in fact, nothing more than an invoice - it has no validity as a parking ticket.

 

Read the stickies at the top of the forum about private parking tickets. DO not pay and post back if you have further questions.

 

Were there noticeable signs around that he could not miss saying that there would be a charge for parking as he did?

Edited May 23, 2008 by patdavies

[amandaf]

thankyou for your replies on the moral issue i would like to apologise obviously i could say the van was to large for an ordinary parking bay or that most people either moral or legal have at one time done something after all we are not perfect,so my apologies in advance.My question would be that my husband as already been named as the driver,although no communication so far between my husband and cms,would this not change the playing field obviously they have been given proof that it was my husbad,will not pay and see what happens as to the signs not to sure my husband will probably post when he as finished work,thankyou for your replies and help with this matter

amanda

[amandaf]

hi pat, so sorry have just read the stickies with template letters will send one of these and keep you informed

kind regards

amanda

[neil24103]

hi pat, so sorry have just read the stickies with template letters will send one of these and keep you informed

kind regards

amanda

do not write or contact them it is upto them to prove who the driver was not you.and you dont have to tell them anything.you will get many letters threatening alsorts of bad things will happen.trust me ive been there its all a load of bolxxxks just file all letters and get on with your life. ITS JUST A CON TO GET YOU TO PAY UP ITS JUST AN UNENFORCEABLE INVIOCE THATS ALL IT IS

[patdavies]

do not write or contact them it is upto them to prove who the driver was not you.and you dont have to tell them anything.you will get many letters threatening alsorts of bad things will happen.trust me ive been there its all a load of bolxxxks just file all letters and get on with your life. ITS JUST A CON TO GET YOU TO PAY UP ITS JUST AN UNENFORCEABLE INVIOCE THATS ALL IT IS

 

However, I would recommend using the template letters rather than simply ignoring them

 

If, and it's a very big if, this was taken to county court, then all parties are expected to have attempted to resolve the issue before court proceedings/hearings. A judge may take a dim view of there having been no response to the PPC's demands.

[amandaf]

hi pat,

long time since i was on i sent the template on behalf of my husband the one asking what points of law sent it the 25th of may and this morning recieved this

 

thankyou for your letter dated 25th of may 2008 and your comments regarding how we can issue parking notice.We operate on behalf of the landowner,your name has been forwarded as the driver on the day in question by(name of company).Please forward payment to avoid further costs and possible court action.

 

youts sincerely

on behalf of the appeals dept

 

could you please direct me to a suitable template to send back,thankyou in advance

 

amanda

[lamma]

1 Which PPC is this ?

2) Hubby needs to verify with his company that someone did give his name - and straighten out his company about these invoices.

3) Operating on behalf of the landowner and actually having landowner rights are two very different things. It is a good bet that the contract with the PPC does not give landowner rights - who would be daft enough to do that ?

4) It is the landowner who can get their losses back. what is the loss ? the price of a ticket

5) they are trying to enforce a penalty and so are stuffed.

 

6) get a copy of the V888/2 request made by the PPC to the DVLA - the company may have to request this.

 

To get a nailed down response we would need to see pictures of ALL the paperwork involved. By all means post up links to them - suitably washed of your personal details.

[amandaf]

hi it is cms,this is the letter wich was sent to them on the 25th of may,my husband as got the other correspondance will post this when he get's in,basically it is a family run business and his brother:x forwarde them our address and husbands name,tbh i thought we would not hear from them again 9 weeks since letter was sent,thanks for your reply

amanda

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Re: Vehicle Reg No: [#]

 

On [dd mmmm yyyy] you issued a parking ticket to the above mentioned vehicle that I had parked in [state location].

 

Could you please advise the basis in law that you feel enables you to issue a parking ticket that appears to mimic those issued by the police, traffic wardens and/or local authorities and to levy penalties

 

In the meantime I absolutely deny your claim that the amount claimed, or any amount at all, is due to you from me.

 

Yours faithfully

[crem]

it is a family run business and his brother forwarde them our address and husbands name

 

 

Is his brother for real!!! Why on earth would he give his brothers name to a PPC without speaking to your hubby first?

[amandaf]

 

 

 

 

just a slight amendment to the letter my husband wrote were it says i had parked he put that had parked put our home address but omitted name,i don't know why but there you go and his brother that's a whole different story something along the lines of thinks he knows everything when in fact knows nothing,thanks in advance

amanda

[Al27]

CMS from Lytham.

 

Jokers.

 

You have an unenforceable invoice from a private company.

 

Private companies cannot issue fines, only claim back actual losses in court. As they have not suffered any losses, they won't get any money in court. So they have to send lots of threatening letters to scare you into paying.

 

The sign probably says "If you do x or don't do x, you agree to pay £75". The law does not work like that.

 

It's a [problem].

 

So:

 

• do not pay

• ignore any letters you receive, no matter how threatening

• do not reply

• they will go away after 4 or 5 letters

• ignore lies about CCJs, court costs or owner liability - they are made up to scare you into paying

• don't worry and get on with your life - they will not take you to court and they will go away if you don't respond.

 

I hope you haven't sent the letter yet. It's no big deal, but if you respond you will go on the 'hooked fish list' and be pestered for longer. There is no 'appeals process' - no private company will turn away the chance to make a profit. It's a con.

 

Hi amanda

 

As the van was parked in a disabled bay and the driver is not disabled and therefore doesn't possess a disabled badge, I doubt if there is any defence.

 

If it was me personally I would pay up as the costs of not doing so will just escalate.

 

Just my personal opinion, others may have different advice.

 

Best wishes

SG x

 

With respect to SpiritGirl, this is a load of nonsense. Please ignore and do not pay this unenforceable invoice.

[amandaf]

hi al27,my husband did send the first template asking what there basis of law was but that was over 9 weeks ago.To be honest 2 of my friends had just done exactly the same thing on sainsburys car park and obviously paid.I did a search on google and found this site best thing i ever did:-),it just makes you wonder how many people get hooked by these companies.I certainly thought it looked legal and binding,will take your advise and not reply to anymore letters if we do recieve anymore will post them,thanks for your quick reply

 

amanda

[amandaf]

hi again,

last post july this morning reccieved a letter off solicitor basically saying

 

we are instructed to act on behalf of our above named client in connection with a parking charge notice,a copy of which is attached for your convenient reference.The amount due and owing to our client in accordance with the aforesaid notice is £130 as the notice has not been paid within seven days.Our client has clear photographic evidence that you parked on private land in breach of parking conditions then in force.These parking restrictions were notified to you in the form of an obvious sign and markings and by parking on the on the private land referred to you have parked in acceptance of these conditions and restrictions and are therefore liable for the parking charge now being pursued by our client as agent on behalf of the relevant land owner.We are instructed within seven days of this letter to issue court proceedings to recover this outstanding debt.Our client has a contractual obligation to it's own customer to effect recovery of parking fines and for this reason our client has a strict policy of pursuing outstanding charges through the courts if so required.Payment can be made direct to our client.details are provided on the attached copy notice which has previously been delivered to you by our client.So that we are notified promptly that payment has been made you are also required within seven days to notify us by letter or by e-mail that payment has been made or will be made shortly

yours faithfully

apfel carter

solicitors

 

anyone any ideas,please

 

amanda

Edited October 17, 2008 by amandaf

[p.s.]

I've had this one and many more like it

 

I just ignore them

 

[angela-27]

subscribing

[amandaf]

not a collection service

 

APFEL CARTER SOLICITORS

28-30 PARK ROAD

ST ANNES

LANCASHIRE

FY8 1PA

 

help:-(

[lamma]

did you get (all) the V888/2 information from the DVLA ?

 

Solicitor calls it a fine !

 

If you wish to then post photographs of ALL the paperwork (sent and received) - suitably washed of personal details. (useTinypic).

Pictures of the location and signage also.

[amandaf]

no did'nt get the v888/2 am i correct that the company would have to ask for this all other correpondance posted in this thread just going to post this

[lamma]

see the form itself on the DVLA website - After a PPC makes a V888/2 request to the DVLA you have rights to request a copy of the V888/2 request itself (if electronic that won't exist but thats okay PLUS evidence of contract, Data Protection Register registration number used, real address of PPC (p.O boxes not allowed on V888/2 requests) etc etc How to request information from DVLA records : Directgov - Motoring http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/AdviceOnKeepingYourVehicle/DG_4022067?IdcService=GET_FILE&dID=100351&Rendition=Web http://www.dvla.gov.uk/media/company_curriculum_vitae_1.pdf You will not be making a FOI request or a DPA request- so no fee is involved. Vehicles Fee Paying Enquiry Section DVLA Swansea SA99 1AJ Month Day, yyyy Release of Information, Fee Paying Enquiries Section, DVLA, Swansea SA99 1AJ. Dear Sir/Madam, This letter is not requesting personal information and so is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection legislation therefore I believe no fees are involved. etc etc