Unions

[Allwood]

What are you paying your subs for then?I have had to ask this question myself, as I am a union member, but when I needed the support, there was no one available to help.. so whats the point?In point of fact, they cost me more than they helped me, and I have lodged a complaint with the branch, but they have not responded to it, now there is a shock.They seem only answerable to themselves and then they back each other up to the hilt - I have cancelled my subs now though, but still intend to follow through the complaint.

 

Cellbar - what are the results of your complaint regarding your union not giving you the support that you have paid. Are you claiming your subs back or is that possible.

[twoofus]

What union is this, i've never experienced anything like this in 18 years as a union member. My union have always supported me and my colleagues at work without any problems at all.

 

How many work at your company?

How many Union members are there?

 

Allwood, you speak very negatively of Unions, you aren't a Manager are you???

 

Lets not forget what Union means, it is a union of people,, joined together to fight for better together and is only as strong as the members in it.

[Allwood]

twoofus, I am certainly not a manager, I speak negatively about unions becasue I have never got any positive support from them despite asking for it many times and my request were completely ignored by the union.

 

For 11 years I was in NALGO before it before it amalgamated and became unison they were completely useless for me. When I needed them for support, I could never get anyone to help or support me. From what I saw in the workplace people became rep becasue it helped them in their own careers and it was there own careers that was their first and foremost concern.

 

Last year I joined a union becasue I was suffering from the incompetent managers at my workplace ie discrimination, bullying and victimization and indeed my employer was completely ignoring the DDA and they completely ignored their own OHA recommendation concerning my disability.

 

Regrettable the union I joined was also completely incompetent or just do not care, my rep knew the the head Manager at my workplace and it was obvious that union was looking after them more than their member that was paying for their services.

 

Also I work for a while in a union office of Unison and I saw at first hand how they used positive discrimination towards their members.

 

There is no recognized union at my work place, but they do allowed employees to join unions.

[twoofus]

My apologies Allwood, you came across bitter but with your explination I can see why. I've been a union member for 18 years and a shop steward for 2 years and it infuriates me when I hear these stories.

 

I maintain a relationship with my manager because I have known him for such a long time but, I know and he knows if there is a problem our friendship goes on hold and we battle things out. I can't see why people become Reps to further their career is there no way you can put a vote of no confidence in??

[mortlake]

Lets not forget what Union means, it is a union of people,, joined together to fight for better together and is only as strong as the members in it.

 

I'd love to agree but the free accounts at Certoffice.org don't add-up for my T&G section of Unite. There is a big heading for legal costs, but in an interview their legal director seemed to admit it was no-win no-fee so that's a black hole in the accounts. Then I saw somewhere they have 400 staff for 750,000 working members, so the money isn't going on staff - no wonder they are too busy to help members.

 

In theory the union is democratic but they seem to keep to a legal minimum of proper votes. Recent election results from Electoral Reform Services published by DearUnite.com show less than 10% turnout and an Executive Council member (or some such) on the Urban75 message board mentioned that nearly all the elected are members of an internal political party: those who protested about let-downs like the Swissport branch have lost their seats.

 

I quite agree with the good intentions of those who write to say that most unions are efficient and exceptions are rare, but wish they'd set-up a new union or find the existing ones that are any good. Maybe we should have a survey on this site: who has used a union legal service for employment, which union, and was it a last-minute no-win no-fee [problem]?

[Cellbar]

Hiya - I will have to let you know about getting my subs back as I am currently taking legal advice on the matter (and not through the Union!!). I am now a Steward myself, but only becuase I would not want anyone to go through what I have been through with them - my issue is similar to Allwood - failure to make reasonable adjustments and bullying/harrassment. Everything has been recorded and documented, but I just could not get hold of the Regional Rep to assist me - I asked for anotehr Rep to be allocated to no avail, so when I took the reins myself and acted, they withdrew support! Its laughable - I even asked them what support and lodged a complaint but nothing has ever been responded to, hence the legal advice. Funnily enough though, the Union have taken on my Personal Injury Claim through a Solicitor that they advertise and recommend. In all honesty, people, members of the Union, are only interested in the Union when they need its support and thats why many are only mediocre, as the Reps have limited interest too and some to take on the positions to help their own career, especially where training is concerned, not right I feel, but you can understand why some people do it.

[gmail]

Funnily enough though, the Union have taken on my Personal Injury Claim through a Solicitor that they advertise and recommend.

 

That sounds familiar...

 

 

Another thing to add from my experiences is that you will get legal advice from day 1 if it involves a personal injury claim, why? because unlike employment cases they will be able claim their fees/costs back and probably get a kick back from the solicitors for the business. Try getting an employment solicitor, almost impossible.

A lot of these so called special union member offers that come through the door (insurances, discounts etc) are nothing more that an affiliate/commission earner for the unions.

 

Both yours and Allwoods cases sound very very similar to mine, i thought i was the only one :o

[Allwood]

I wounder if we are all in the same union working for greedy supermarkets.... say no more.

[Allwood]

Hiya - I will have to let you know about getting my subs back as I am currently taking legal advice on the matter (and not through the Union!!). I am now a Steward myself, but only becuase I would not want anyone to go through what I have been through with them - my issue is similar to Allwood - failure to make reasonable adjustments and bullying/harrassment. Everything has been recorded and documented, but I just could not get hold of the Regional Rep to assist me - I asked for anotehr Rep to be allocated to no avail, so when I took the reins myself and acted, they withdrew support! Its laughable - I even asked them what support and lodged a complaint but nothing has ever been responded to, hence the legal advice. Funnily enough though, the Union have taken on my Personal Injury Claim through a Solicitor that they advertise and recommend. In all honesty, people, members of the Union, are only interested in the Union when they need its support and thats why many are only mediocre, as the Reps have limited interest too and some to take on the positions to help their own career, especially where training is concerned, not right I feel, but you can understand why some people do it.

 

Hi Cellbar, I have been in a Union before for 11years and they were just as bad, no support whatsoever. I have highlighted the above quote because I feel that statement should not apply to unions and none of them should be mediocre as this would mean that Unions are taking people money on the basis that they are not going to support them, which there is a name for that. Unions were created because people needed support and help during their employment from bad employers.

 

Your Union taking on the Personal Injury Claim because they are likely to win that thus making money for themselves as well or one of their panel solicitors.

 

I wonder if your union first charter in its name starts with a U and ends in a W.

[gmail]

Ahh, there a difference now. Mine Starts with a G and ends with B

[Cellbar]

Which just goes to show - they are all the same!

[paulgmb]

Absolute rubbish, like employers are all the same?

Gmail sent me a PM months ago asking about their Union and I offered to help anyway I could......Still no reply!!

[tiglet]

Certainly not all unions (or union reps) are the same.

 

I have seen many people on the forum who have stated that their union has been very helpful - unfortunately, people do have bad experiences from "good" bodies such as unions - it certainly does not mean that the experience will be the same for everyone.

[gmail]

I agree that all union workers are not all the same, it's just people's experiences with the hopeless one's that tend to tar the rest of them with a bad name.

 

Paul, i'll send you a PM m8. Sorry for not replying but my head has been up my backside with all the counselling i've been having and with having to do all the leg work myself to try to do everything correct. It's been and still is a real struggle

[Allwood]

Unfortunately, Paul most employers nowadays are bad, not very good to their employees. It is profit that they have in mind and they do not mind how they get it. It seems that Tesco are not very good to their employees today unlike years ago when people used to like working for them but today sadly people has to stay with bad employers becasue they have no alternative. If the leave on their own accord without other employment to go to then they will be penalized by the government, they will not quslified for any kind of benefit, employers know this and they will exploit wherever possible. All employers are concerned with is their shareholders and how to keep them happy.

 

Look at Tesco they do care how chickens are raised all that matters to them is profit.

Edited June 27, 2008 by Allwood

[djgordyp]

Unfortunately, Paul most employers nowadays are bad, not very good to their employees. It is profit that they have in mind and they do not mind how they get it. It seems that Tesco are not very good to their employees today unlike years ago when people used to like working for them but today sadly people has to stay with bad employers becasue they have no alternative. If the leave on their own accord without other employment to go to then they will be penalized by the government, they will not quslified for any kind of benefit, employers know this and they will exploit wherever possible. All employers are concerned with is their shareholders and how to keep them happy.

 

Look at Tesco they do care how chickens are raised all that matters to them is profit.

Whilst My experience is not as bad as some on here I totally agree with the above comments. The influx of migrant workers has only made the situation worse over the last few years. For example, some of us travelled to work on a susidised bus and this has now been removed and they weren't even interested in any compromise we or our driver put forward. Just this week 6 foreign emplyees were laid off in our retail departmet. I heard from one of the line mamgers that the company is paying their rent for the next three months. Just this week 9 Foreign workers arrived and are being put up in a local hotel until they find accomadation. These jobs weren't even advertised locally. Two freinds of a co-worker applied for a job where I work and were not even given an inerview. I could go on but would be taking the thread way off topic

I have already mentioned, on another thread, how little help we had from our union (same as gmails) over pay and conditions.

[Allwood]

Who brought that wonderful piece of legislation in was it 'New Labour by any change!! Labour MP'S are suppose to be working for us the working people (not for themselve like taking tax payers money for their own expenses without producing receipts for the money therefore no wonder John Precott has a eating disorder he had to used up his food shopping allowance before the end of each year) Labout MP's are worse than any Tory - come back Tories! we forgive MT. Labours MP's are suppose to be funded by unions ie our money that we pay by way of subs what are we getting from unions is more of the 'New Labour. We can do without that thank you very much.

Edited June 29, 2008 by Allwood

[Spectralis]

I believe that unions are important and necessary in the fight to defend worker rights but I'd like to agree with those who are critical of union support.

 

I had a breakdown due to stress at work and my GP signed me off sick. After 9 months of trying to negotiate with my employer I was dismissed. During that time I struggled to get help from the union. I was accompanied to meetings by a union rep but received no help or advice defending my case. My employer claimed that the dismissal was fair because I do not fall within the remit of the DDA. The advice I have received from MIND and Disability Law Service was that my case does fall within this remit.

 

Eventually, after going through a stressful appeal (which I received no advice or help from my union rep beforehand) it was agreed by the regional rep to refer my case to employment tribunal. The union solicitors have now decided after all this time that they can't win the case and my union have dropped me. The solicitors will only take on case they are 100% guaranteed to win. I've now received letters from my ex-employer demanding fees for specialist advisors.

 

Right from the start I had to work really hard to get help from my union and was told by my rep that as the person involved in the case I should know best how to proceed. At no time, even though I requested it, was my rep willing to sit down and advise me over how to proceed with my case. At our last meeting with the regional rep where it was agreed to refer the case to tribunal he taped our conversation. As far as I'm concerned, I did not receive proper advice and support. There was no discussion about strategy and tactics to counter the lies that were used by my employer to justify my dismissal.

 

Perhaps all those reps on this forum who aren't willing to acknowledge that some union support is absolutely shoddy need to go back and rethink whether their union is actually listening to and providing the support for their members needs rather than placing the responsibility for building cases on the sick and disabled members the union is meant to represent.

[Allwood]

I totally agree with you Spectralis and sorry that you had to go through so much without support although you were paying for it by way of your subs.

 

I have found being in a union has no benefit whatsoever, in fact, I have found them to have more sympathy with the employer that the employee.

This I have found twice they were not on my side and to get any recognition from them was such a struggle. I am seriously thinking of leaving my union as I do not thing they deserve any more money from me why should I pay them every month and not giving support when it is desperately needed.

[mortlake]

I'd like a thread which was specifically for discussion of bad unions, with the union's fault taken for granted, like the threads for discussing banks. At the moment it seems that only those who have been ripped off by a big union know how bad they are, and we're unlikely to be MPs, lawyers, or news editors who depend on each other to make the laws.

 

Also, if there could be something like a facebook group for people interested in joining a good union then maybe one would come-along and sign us up!

 

Spectralis: good luck recovering. From experience I doubt there's a slower way to do it than to suffer the same messing-about from another organisation. In contrast, self employment on lower pay doing simpler work is great, but I still rant and get suddenly angry sometimes, just thinking about a face or an injustice. Thanks for putting your experience in public where it might make a difference.