parking charge in free car park in scotland

[leantientice]

hiya

we got a ticket from a private company today for Obstructive Parking, as we were parked over 2 spaces in a free car park, initial charge of £60, rising to £90, then £135 with bailiffs and the threat of getting our details from the DVLA.

 

It was 9.35 and the retail park shops had just opened, and there was hardly any other cars in the car park.

 

We had parked at the far end of the car park due to the fact we had previously had our car damaged.

 

Do we ignore it and let them send us a letter or do we send them a letter and what would we say?:eek:

 

thank you

[Conniff]

You can certainly ignore the bailiff part as only courts can authorise bailiffs and then only on conviction.

 

If you want to write to them, ask who you were obstructing.

[Barnsley Boy]

Yawn, Yawn - Clifford Tanner is a troll, I suggest we don't feed

[Barnsley Boy]

Certainly don't initiate correspondance. Best & easiest option is to simply ignore - it will go away in time.

[Mossycat]

There is absolutely nothing wrong nor illegal about parking a car that covers two bays, providing that you are not being inconsiderate when you did it. From your post you say the car park was fairly empty therefore you didn't inconvenience anyone.

 

Some private parking companies (well most actually) look for the slightest infraction of an unenforceable rule and then send you inane amounts of drivel in the vain hope you will pay up.

 

Don't pay it!

[scottish_mark]

I am sure that even with the scots case I posted a few days ago, that NO sheriff would order you to pay, I would ignore and complain about the company that ticketed you.

 

I have often parked over 2 bays mainly because someone else has and its a knockon effect .. Also if they didnt mark bays so tight that most 2 door cars can't open easy then this problem wouldn't happen anyway.

 

I would not pay and ask them to take me to court

[leantientice]

thanks everyone, who should i complain to about this company. Would it be the landlord of the carpark or the police as this company is issuing tickets that resemble one that a local authority or traffic police would?

[emsgeorge]

Scan and Wash your ticket, then post it up here for all to see. Some of these 'tickets' look very much like police or local authority tickets.

[lamma]

yes please. lets have a look.

[nero12]

thanks everyone, who should i complain to about this company. Would it be the landlord of the carpark or the police as this company is issuing tickets that resemble one that a local authority or traffic police would?

 

just thought id post this

 

paul adams

 

read this The Today Network UK travel news & information

 

he pm'ed me the letter he sent regarding what purports to be a pcn which he sent to the ppc.

 

worth a read . will post the letter if it helps.

[lamma]

yes please.

[nero12]

yes please.

 

here is the letter he used. Hope it helps

 

 

Dear Mrs Squires,

 

I was extremely disappointed with your response to my letter of 23rd November. Whilst I was aware that the car park at the front was for retail shoppers, I naturally assumed that the car park under the railway arches was associated with the adjacent station. I had no reason to believe otherwise, having used it without incident over the last four years.

You appear to claim that I entered into a binding contract with you.

Please provide evidence that your purported contractual terms were communicated to me in a way that I read, understood and accepted them prior to leaving my vehicle. Please be aware that I have photographic evidence which proves that your signs are inadequate, unclear, badly sited and in fact, hard to spot and impossible to read, from a vehicle entering the rear access road.

 

From a legal standpoint, I understand that private charges can only be based on contract. You will have to prove in court that I agreed to a contract, agreed to park under the terms of the contract, that I agreed to pay a charge if I breached the contract, that I actually did breach the

contract and that the charge is both fair and not an unenforceable penalty charge which is in no way a reasonable estimate of your loss. Under the aforementioned circumstances I deny that such a contract ever existed and I believe this is an unenforceable charge.

 

Could you please also advise the basis in law that you feel enables you to issue a parking ticket that appears to mimic those issued by the police, traffic wardens and/or local authorities and to levy penalties.

In the meantime I absolutely deny your claim that the amount claimed, or any amount at all, is due to you from me.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Paul F. Adams

 

 

this is exeter - news, entertainment, jobs, homes and cars

[scottish_mark]

I think thats a great letter, it is direct to the point and states all the reasons it was wrong to be given the ticket.

if they take you to court without answering all the points fully then the case would fail, my understanding court should be a last resort after everything else had failed

You have listed all your points there, rather than ignoring or being defensive and it reads you feel it is wrong and now upto them to answer.

[PPC Buster]

here is the letter he used. Hope it helps

 

 

Dear Mrs Squires,

 

I was extremely disappointed with your response to my letter of 23rd November. Whilst I was aware that the car park at the front was for retail shoppers, I naturally assumed that the car park under the railway arches was associated with the adjacent station. I had no reason to believe otherwise, having used it without incident over the last four years.

You appear to claim that I entered into a binding contract with you.

Please provide evidence that your purported contractual terms were communicated to me in a way that I read, understood and accepted them prior to leaving my vehicle. Please be aware that I have photographic evidence which proves that your signs are inadequate, unclear, badly sited and in fact, hard to spot and impossible to read, from a vehicle entering the rear access road.

 

From a legal standpoint, I understand that private charges can only be based on contract. You will have to prove in court that I agreed to a contract, agreed to park under the terms of the contract, that I agreed to pay a charge if I breached the contract, that I actually did breach the

contract and that the charge is both fair and not an unenforceable penalty charge which is in no way a reasonable estimate of your loss. Under the aforementioned circumstances I deny that such a contract ever existed and I believe this is an unenforceable charge.

 

Could you please also advise the basis in law that you feel enables you to issue a parking ticket that appears to mimic those issued by the police, traffic wardens and/or local authorities and to levy penalties.

In the meantime I absolutely deny your claim that the amount claimed, or any amount at all, is due to you from me.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Paul F. Adams

 

 

this is exeter - news, entertainment, jobs, homes and cars

You would be better advised to completely ignore then than take part in any sham appeals processes.

[scottish_mark]

why is it better to ignore ?

1 letter let's them know you know its wrong and will fight it if necessary on the grounds mentioned

If it does goto court the poster cannot be accused of being obstructive and pointed out their issues at the outset and the company has acted unreasonably by going to court.. A case in Scotland can be thrown out on those grounds alone

[PPC Buster]

Sounds like you are quoting a certain well known website.

[nero12]

ppc buster

 

if you read the piece in the link, a letter of appeal had already been sent to apcoa

 

unfortunately mr Adams didnt know how to fight these crookes untill that is he found the relevant info on the web.

 

The letter I posted ,which he pm'd to me was the one he sent which blew these tossers away.

 

It made the mainstream tabliods as far away as denmark and germany if I remember right.

 

I agree, ignore the monkies and their antics first off

 

However bear in mind this letter worked on the second go ,so if you were unfortunate and entered into an appeals process this may help.

[PPC Buster]

Fair point.

[nero12]

Fair point. [/quote

 

 

no problem mate:)

 

by the way, if the mods are seeing this look down the bottom of the letter

 

i think you will find a finishing salvo from berni the bolt sticky.So it is famous in more ways than one.

 

Inspiration from here!!

[lamma]

I reckon don't engage and most of them go away. Lets face it every single PPC knows that their game is 'false' - that is why we get so many (very obvious) troll's posts here from PPCs saying its 'payable' or suggesting you do engage. With no engagement there is no way any information about who was actually driving the vehicle can be obtained or adduced. This leave a major hurdle in place for the PPC - and thats besides all the other hurdles.

And of course why would they start with RK when clearly any alleged contract will be with the driver - this is a two edged sword and both of them cut the PPC - hence their keenness to overcome it.

 

If you are going to communicate then I reckon you should not bother with laughable 'appeals process' which in reality only exists to glean information as described above.

If communicating with a PPC just 'deny and nuke' - many good examples on here. Then request the full information from the DVLA re the landowner and evidence of contract etc behind the request for RK details and give serious headaches to the landowner.

[leantientice]

hiya, thanks for all your advice, i have decided to ignore for now and file the letters as they come in without any response back.

 

We paid a visit to the car park tonight to check out their signs which dont actually mention anything about being 'fined' for taking up 2 spaces or parking outwith marked bays. The main message they had was about overstaying more than 4 hours. So i am guessing that they dont have a leg to stand on as this wasnt part of their 'contract' with us??? Even though their tickets dont appear to be legal and imitating official tickets anyway. feeling a bit more clued up thanks to everyone. Had a conversation at work today about the whole fiasco and someone had a similar situation at a hospital car park, but they happened to know someone on security and was told to ignore the ticket as they would never be chased or made to pay up.

[JonCris]

Yeah most threads only have to put up with 1 troll here we have 2!!

To the OP don't worry they ain't got any power to do anything.

[HSBCrusher]

off topic stuff moved to the bear garden where it belongs!