H.O.L Test case appeal. Judgement Declared. ***See Announcements***

[Rhia]

This is quite interesting too. Banks are socially useless - by Adair Turner Head of the FSA.

 

Head of FSA backs tax on transactions to combat swollen city bonuses | Mail Online

[InformedSearcher]

There is of course the 'intriguing' twists to all this if we get everything back. I can imagine the CRA's and DCA's probably making potential fortunes. I can also imagine the financial institutions with their automatic systems not quite geared up for reversal information as that's always done manually investing more so they can be automatically reveresed - Probably hive that all off to some 3rd world country. Of course the consequential claims by consumers on things they were refused because of CRA's (false entries). The time to come will be most interesting to say the least. Maybe if we are lucky, see images of banking management groups crying with their heads bowed in shame - well we can always live in the world of wish.

Michael

[car2403]

Is there a rabbit off?

 

I've had new T&C's from LTSB, Halifax and NatWest come through this week?

 

Beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning?

 

I can't really see what's changed, but they are good at hiding the changes by not highlighting them - then I don't have time to read 30-odd pages of small print, do I, which is part of the original problem!

[the_shadow]

Is there a rabbit off?

 

I've had new T&C's from LTSB, Halifax and NatWest come through this week?

 

Beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning?

 

I can't really see what's changed, but they are good at hiding the changes by not highlighting them - then I don't have time to read 30-odd pages of small print, do I, which is part of the original problem!

 

aint that the truth

 

I've had Barclaycard and HSBC new ones, Barclaycard refer to some sort of payment regulations for EU made payments in Euros and blah blah blah

 

Filed for future use of course....

 

S.

[lenny100]

i just got mine also but i dont understand themits not clear at all from lloyds , the best thing a almost identical pack came through for my 14 year old son for his child account!

[InformedSearcher]

Is there a rabbit off?

 

I've had new T&C's from LTSB, Halifax and NatWest come through this week?

 

Beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning?

 

I can't really see what's changed, but they are good at hiding the changes by not highlighting them - then I don't have time to read 30-odd pages of small print, do I, which is part of the original problem!

 

Any chance of a copy of one of them. I'm happy to wade through.

I'd love to have a glimpse of the legal bills so far too!

Michael

[yourbank]

Is there a rabbit off?

 

I've had new T&C's from LTSB, Halifax and NatWest come through this week?

 

Beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning?

 

I can't really see what's changed, but they are good at hiding the changes by not highlighting them - then I don't have time to read 30-odd pages of small print, do I, which is part of the original problem!

 

Payment Services Directive is coming into force which is why the whole stuff is being sent out

 

Link to FSA page about it: http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/About/What/International/psd/

[fergal71]

any dates in october for HOL result?????

[Conniff]

Is there a rabbit off?

 

I've had new T&C's from LTSB, Halifax and NatWest come through this week?

 

Beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning?

 

I can't really see what's changed, but they are good at hiding the changes by not highlighting them - then I don't have time to read 30-odd pages of small print, do I, which is part of the original problem!

 

 

Payment Services Directive is coming into force which is why the whole stuff is being sent out

 

Link to FSA page about it:

Payment Services Directive

 

You can bet your life that the new conditions are to their benefit. Even if it says charges are reduced to 50p, they will have wangled it so you end up paying more each month.

[noomill060]

RBS and Natwest have just reduced their charges to £5...

 

Yay, I was first! Remember that!

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8242144.stm

 

 

RBS-NatWest slash overdraft fees

 

 

The new Supreme Court will rule on overdraft fees later this autumn

 

Banking group RBS-NatWest - majority owned by the taxpayer - has broken ranks with the rest of the industry and decided to slash its overdraft charges. The move comes ahead of a decision of the new Supreme Court on whether or not the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) can regulate these charges.

From 1 October, RBS and NatWest customers will be charged only £5 for having a cheque bounced, down from £38.

The fee for paying an item on an overdrawn account falls in half to £15.

"This is good news for customers, not least because the fees for unarranged borrowing have been an area of ongoing concern for them," said the chief executive of the bank's UK operations, Brian Hartzer.

"As we look ahead there are many issues to consider, but we thought it was time to move this particular customer concern forward by cutting our charges.

"As it relates to past charges we are awaiting the outcome of the industry-wide bank charges test case ," he added

[the_shadow]

RBS and Natwest have just reduced their charges to £5...

 

Yay, I was first! Remember that!

 

haha well done newshound

 

Call me cynical but is it beyond the realms or realism that they all reduce their charges from here on in but past charges are given an amnesty?

 

S.

[noomill060]

I really cant them being allowed to keep their ill gotten gains...

[InformedSearcher]

Call me cynical too but I love the bit, 'Between them, the RBS and NatWest have 12.5 million current account holders, of whom only a minority go overdrawn without permission each year'. Erm to me even the £15 is an excessive charge.

Having seen some IMHO 'cunning' schemes from say Barclay's with their 'Reserve' accounts and others with their 'Daily Charge' overdrafts one wonders how many people are employed within banks t think up the Governments equivelant of 'Stealth Taxes'?

 

What amused me from the Halifax site was, 'Following further hearings, the Court also decided that HBOS’ and Lloyds TSB’s historic terms and conditions can’t be penalties, but like the banks’ current charges they can be assessed for fairness'. Deliberate wording to confuse as I see it.

Michael

[Bookworm]

RBS and Natwest have just reduced their charges to £5...

 

Yay, I was first! Remember that!

 

Sorry hun, you weren't:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/218674-rbs-natwest-reduce-charges.html

 

Beaten by a few mns by AFD.

[noomill060]

[alanfromderby]

Sorry hun, you weren't:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/218674-rbs-natwest-reduce-charges.html

 

Beaten by a few mns by AFD.

 

 

...and it was a phone call from BankFodder that drew my attention to it. LOL

[jclancy]

I have just written a blog on the Birmingham Post website in response to the RBS/NatWest decision and a provocative new definition of 'Free Banking'.

 

Fellow CAG-ers piled in with great comments on a blog on bank charges I did there earlier this year and promoted here.

 

Comments would be great! You don't need to register to comment.

 

You'll find it here:

 

http://blogs.birminghampost.net/busi...please-ho.html

 

Hope you agree with me. By the way, I'm happy still to call them penalty charges - if it walks like a duck .....etc.

 

John Clancy

[InformedSearcher]

I have just written a blog on the Birmingham Post website in response to the RBS/NatWest decision and a provocative new definition of 'Free Banking'.

 

Fellow CAG-ers piled in with great comments on a blog on bank charges I did there earlier this year and promoted here.

 

Comments would be great! You don't need to register to comment.

 

You'll find it here:

 

http://blogs.birminghampost.net/busi...please-ho.html

 

Hope you agree with me. By the way, I'm happy still to call them penalty charges - if it walks like a duck .....etc.

 

John Clancy

 

 

Well that's a good link to a 'quality' blog. How would the banks react to it? 'Water off a ducks back' I'd say but there you go. - Banks = power and the consumer = lucky peasant (unless they have substantial funds)!

 

Bear in mind that the higher up the service level / pecking order you are also decides on who calls you and from what country! LOL I'm sadly in the Malaysian/Indian/Phillipines level these days.

Michael

[jclancy]

Thanks, Michael.

 

Of course I don't really give a stuff what the Banks themselves think. It's a provocative and rhetorical piece but is designed to give the consumer some rhetorical ammo. We have to stop ordinary consumers being lulled into bankerspeak.

 

Caggers are already well in the know about these things, but as we all know non-cagger consumers are surprisingly ready to adopt 'banker speak'. "It was my fault, I shouldn't have set that direct debit up, shouldn't have written that cheque. They do look after my money very well. I love their debit card. Do you know they give me 2% interest on my current account?; I never used to get that. Free banking will end if we stop the bank charges....etc"

 

Wittgenstein tells us that the words we use define our experience of the world itself and change it (er...I think so, anyway).

 

You sometimes have to change the words of the debate to change the debate to change things.

 

John

[kennyh]

JC, Well put

If caught driving three times over the alcohol limit, it is hardly a defence to say that you thought you were only twice over the limit.

 

Good analogy

 

They remain exorbitant and unlawful

Partly confirmed by their own QC

Don't care if OFT set a fiver - I'll still go after them until they 'fess up to actual cost, THEN, I suppose, I retire.

See I got demoted - must have peeed someone off!

Edited September 9, 2009 by kennyh
late observation

[jclancy]

You're absolutely right, kennyh.

 

Mind you, I think we should assert that the actual cost is nothing.

 

If there's no money in the account, the direct debit and the cheque are simply not paid. They are only creating manual interventions and letters in order to make the charge and make a profit. That's the only motivation.

 

By definition the intervention and the letter must cost them very little because they wouldn't make a profit otherwise. Why would the bank do anything except in order to make a profit? Take out the manual intervention and physical letter and it costs nothing. Automated e-mails could deal with the matter. We could opt in to have a manual intervention and letter (at cost price - less than £2, or the even just the price of the stamp/franking!) We know it's a moneyspinner dressed up in lily-livered lies.

 

If I go to my online account and try to pay out when there's no money in the account, it doesn't cost me anything. Do they try to charge me for trying to do that? Perhaps we better not give them ideas. In reality, on the basis of their historical arguments for charging, they ought to. Shouldn't a flashing blue alert go off in the bank HQ when I try to pay a bill online when there's no money in my account, so someone can come and have a look, power up a computer and write me a letter that they have to walk to the post room with?

 

I say we don't retire until it is accepted legally and otherwise that it costs them nothing!

 

John Clancy

Edited September 9, 2009 by jclancy
later thought

[kennyh]

Don't the French operate a 'no cash no pay' regime?

[jclancy]

I understand that a cheque is treated like cash there (there's no such thing as a cheque guarantee card there - just ID). However it's a criminal offence in France to write a cheque when there's no money in the account to cover it!

 

You can also choose to have all debit transactions from your card (carte bleue -CB) to come out at the end of the month or on a specific date, as I understand it, though not for cash withdrawals. Now wouldn't that help financial planning? Er...perhaps not.

 

In reality I think overdrafts do not exist in France. They are effectively illegal.

[simonjohn]

I think Its all a blatent con from the RBS group and a smokescreen.

 

£5 for a bounced cheque, down from £38, who nare they kidding.

 

Who uses cheques these days, most retailers have stopped accepting them.

 

The only cheques I have written over the past 12 months have been to relatives, ie birthday money etc.. you are hardley going to bounce a cheque to them are you.

 

The banks know the foregoing, hence the drop to £5...

[Conniff]

you are hardley going to bounce a cheque to them are you.

 

Thanks Simon, you have just given me an idea for the MILs birthday.