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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Help Please re: CCA decision


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We are fine thank you babybear :)

 

thank you for replying, will do!

 

Thank you citizenB :)

 

No postmark on 1st Crud's envelope unfortunately!

 

I must admit I haven't even started the complaint yet to the OFT etc.

 

I will, I will honestly!!!!:p

 

Thank you so much for the wording, that should do nicely :)

 

TBH, this latest letter and your post has given me the kick up the backside that I needed!!!

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Thanks BB, I think I have cobbled it together from other letters so the credit isnt all mine. :D

 

Mrs Z, take a look at this thread before making your complaint to the FOS or TS. It is primarily geared towards the FOS, but with a bit of tweaking you could use quite a bit of it for a complaint to TS. RMW, has shared her experiences and it is well put together and very easy to follow. As BB has advised, duplicate the complaint to both your own and the TS in the area of 1st Credit/Citi FInancial :D A pincer movement :p

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/136654-complaining-financial-ombudsman-service.html

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Good morning all, Mrs Z here :)

 

I am today typing up said letters for 1st cretins, Citi, complaint to Trading Standards (ours and theirs) and the Office of Fair Trading.

 

I have just re-read the letter sent to Citi on Monday, in that letter I stipulated that Mr Z requests a copy of their complaints procedure as he intends to take it further.

 

What I am asking is, should we wait until Citi responds with their complaints procedure prior to contacting TS etc? Or should I save that for if it has to go to the FOS, I do believe that the FOS will only deal if one has had a final response from the Creditor. Mind you, the Notice of Assignment allegedly from Citi ;) could be deemed as their "last Response" couldn't it?

 

I am sorry if this sounds confusing - I've bl**dy well confused myself :D

 

Any opinions on this gratefully received - if you can work out what the hell I've been waffling about!!!

 

I have to get this sorted today, my master has spoken (he likes to think he has anyway:p)

 

Thank you, Mrs Z :)

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This is true, well spotted Mrs Z. FOS do prefer you to have a final response letter before they will investigate. However, at the same time one could assume that the NOA could be construed as such. What time did you give Citi to respond with their complaints procedure ?. Wait that amount of time before making a complaint to the FOS, but shove one in to TS straight away.

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4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

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1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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To be honest, I wouldn't wait until you've had a final response from Citi to go to FOS, just tick yes you have had it on the form because it's taking FOS so long to deal with complaints (over 6 months) that by the time they get to you, you will have had your final response months before.

[COLOR=blue][B]Defaultless since 2012 :)[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=green][/COLOR]

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knoxvillain' response makes much more sense. :D

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

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1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks for your quick response citizenB :)

 

See, I told you that my brain is like mush didn't I? :p

 

How stupid am I?? (don't answer that!!) I failed to give them a time span for Citi to respond!!!!

 

Thanks knoxvillian :) I see your point, but I would prefer to wait until Citi tell Mr Z they will not correspond anymore (much like with the Amex fiasco) so I am able to include a copy of their "final response" to the FOS.

 

 

 

 

Ok, think my foggy brain can just about take in that I should get the complaint done to TS and the OFT anyway.

 

I will be the one to have to deal with the FOS and the like as Mr Z is working, that scares me :eek:

 

Although Mr Z is up to speed on developments, as it's me that's actually dealing with the correspondance, it makes much more sense to speak to me. If they rang one day and Mr Z answered, TBH, he wouldn't have a clue, (he has an awful memory :D) therefore he has given his permission for them to liase with me further should they need to.

 

Thank you, Mrs Z :)

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Mrs Z, on the forms you send in to FOS (when you get to that stage) it has a section asking if someone else is acting on your behalf you just put your details in. Mr Z will of course have to sign the original complaint form after that all correspondence will actually be sent in your name with the reference "Regarding Mr Z's account".

 

To Trading standards, just include a short note which Mr Z will again, saying that you are his representative in this matter. :)

 

BTW, 10-14 days is sufficient time for a company to reply with their complaints procedure. That is from the date on your letter.. not from when they receive it.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Just send your final response to FOS once you get it, you can add to your complaint after you've submitted it, I personally have been bombarding them with letters for months adding stuff to my complaint as I've learned new angles of attack. Up to you though.

[COLOR=blue][B]Defaultless since 2012 :)[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=green][/COLOR]

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Thanks citizenB :)

 

The complaint that is already with the FOS (Amex) has been signed by Mr Z and I am the named contact on his behalf. Sorry, should have made myself clearer, any future official bodies will be told that I will be the contact on Mr Z's behalf - like I said, Mr Z has an awful memory!!

 

Thanks again :)

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Ummm, I cant remember Mrs Z. I think I usually put my initials in the rep:) that isnt to say that I didnt:confused:

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi all, Mrs Z here, it seems the DCA's are working overtime of late!!

 

This post is regarding Amex (this complaint was sent towards the end of July to the FOS and is awaiting an adjudicator).

 

This morning a letter has arrived from Moorcroft Debt Recovery Limited - Pre-Court Division concerning Mr Z's Amex account.

 

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/Misterzeus/Moorcroft1done.jpg

 

Any advice on how to respond please?

 

Thanks, Mrs Z :)

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Hiya Mrs Z,

 

I was going to advise the same as BB.. however, you can probably see them off with something along the lines of the following.

 

WARNING:

THIS IS A REQUEST UNDER THE CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES.

PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE.

Your letter dated XX XXXX 2008 regarding the above account, was received today, giving me a response date of XX XXXX 2008. I would advise you that this matter is already subject to a formal complaint to the Financial Ombudsman under reference number XXXXXX. Perhaps you werent advised of this by your client.

 

However, as you have indicated that legal action is to be taken if I dont respond by the 4th October I would advise the following.

Given that this matter is now subject to a potential legal proceeding, you are obliged to provide, under the Civil Procedures Rules, information to ensure that all parties are on an equal footing, and also to ensure the claim is dealt with expediently and fairly, avoiding an unnecessary burden to the court's resources.

 

Under the Pre-action Practice Directions - Protocols 4.6 of the Civil Procedures Rules, I request that you supply copies of the following documents:

 

1] A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. Please note that a "true copy" as defined by the Consumer Credit Act will not be acceptable in this case, and a copy of the actual executed agreement, including signature, is required.

 

 

2] All records you/ Halifax hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, payments and both the amounts of credit and any repayments made to the account.

 

Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations.

 

Where there has been any event in the account history over this period that has required manual intervention by any person, disclosure of any indication or notes that have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to the account.

 

True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you/ Halifax sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

 

Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

 

Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

A list of third party agencies to whom you/ Halifax have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you/they have disclosed.

 

Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

This information is required within fourteen days from the date of this letter. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to deny me the opportunity to review my position in relation to your claim of alleged breach of agreement and any possible counter-claim.

 

Please note that, as you have initiated this action, failure to respond to this letter will place this account in clear dispute and as such you may not:

demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

add any further interest or charges to the account.

pass/sell the account or outstanding balance to any third party.

register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencies.

issue a default notice related to the account.

Should you ignore any of the above I reserve the right for legal action for redress, and will show the court this letter. I will also report your actions to any authority that I see fit.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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