Housing benefits... advice needed

[batty_uk]

Hi,

This is probably a very unusual one...???

I own my house.....I will try and cut it short....

I lived with my 17 yr old daughter.......my partner moved in with me........in oct 2006 my son's ex girlfriend (H) and my 2 grand children were illegally evicted from their rented house.......no where to live so moved in with me on a temp basis. In april 07 her 3rd child arrived......we live in a 3 bed semi............so now there were 4 adults 3 children..........in aug 07 my partner and i decided to rent a small flat as there appeared to be no council accommodation for H. Tempers were getting fraught.....over crowded, on top of each other........... etc.

In aug 2007 H applied for Housing benefit to pay to me for rent......(amount did not even cover mortgage payments). HB refused because they dont believe i am a "commercial" land lord............H went to the housing office and stated she had to find other accommodation and was told I am her landlord and as such have to take her to court to evict her! .......this is still going round in circles..............I can not afford to keep payments on flat and house as my partner lost his job........any ythoughts? (other than how stupid I am!)

[Invasive_Frost]

Ok just so I can get this straight before I start looking into regs etc to try and help. You have moved into a rented flat and your daughter is living in the house you own?

[batty_uk]

sorry, my daughter moved out the same time i did. My son'd ex and my 3 grandchildren stayed in my house and are still there now.

[Invasive_Frost]

Ok sorry it was late when I was reading. Unfortunately I don't think that there is any way for your son's ex to get housing benefit at the house you own, it's very unlikely even at appeal that anyone would see it as a commercial rent. They have a duty in law to check that it is a commercial rent, but I believe it is down to them what criteria they use to decide this. Things they are likely to look at include:

• Is there a valid tenancy agreement.
  
• Has the property been rented out on a commercial basis in the past.
  
• If the rent is paid will the tenant be evicted.
  
• Is the rent charged at a commercial level (i.e could you get another place of the same size, in the same area for a similar amount)

There will also be many other criteria but that gives you the general idea of why her original claim was turned down.

 

If you can afford it the best solution all around is to lend her the money for a deposit on a new place I'm afraid. If she is on benefits there is a new way of working out how much she will get and there is a calculator here: https://lha-direct.therentservice.gov.uk/Secure/LHASearchIntro.aspx which will tell you how many bedrooms she will be entitled to and how much rent she could get (this is a maximum which she will get if she is on income support.)

The other thing you could do is give her notice to quit. The local authority has a duty in law to re-home people who are in danger of homelessness but, in almost all cases I have heard of, initially try to fob you off and tell you that they don't have to re-home you and even when they do it will likely to be into B&B accommodation.

Additionally if you were to move back into the house you would almost certainly be overcrowded according to the terms in the Housing Acts and H should be re-homed due to that, however being that they have somewhere that is warm and dry they are not going to be a priority.

The best people to get in touch with about this (who will help you (or rather H) with the local authority etc) are probably Shelter, you can find your nearest advice centre on this link Shelter: Advice services directory or perhaps even the CAB.

Sorry I can't be of more help!

[batty_uk]

Don't be sorry, the info isvery helpful however.....

Housing benefits state I am not her landlord and therefore wont pay housing benefits.......the housing section state i am her landlord and therefore need to evict her formally through court proceedings! She had signed a tenancy agreement which HB stated did not count.......?? there are many people who rent properties to family members however i am renting(???) to H who is not legally a family member..I am not renting to my grandchildren.

 

The sad thing is if the house belonged to anyone else there would be no problem........i dont understand why they think it is my responsibility to pay up

[Zamzara]

Housing benefit will not be paid to a close relative who lives with the landlord. If H is not living with you and is not related to you, the council is liable to pay HB. She should appeal the decision.

[Invasive_Frost]

Zamzara: The argument from the council is not about the relationship or otherwise of batty and H, it is about whether the property is commercially let. Whether a property is commercially let is an area which does come down to the criteria that individual councils have to decide upon themselves. (I suspected as much when I first posted to this thread and have confirmed it by looking at the regs).

There is no legal reason not to appeal as far as I know (IANAL), but i suspect that they wouldn't win, although I do not have all the info about the tenency agreement etc so may be wrong.

Batty_UK maybe if I knew which local authority it was you applied to I could do a little digging to see what their criteria are and whether you did in fact satisfy them? (PM if you don't want to give where you live away!)

[389shell]

Is there no way she could take over your tenancy and then put in a claim?

[AwakeNow]

I was interested when I read this and hope that what I have found might help in finding a solution to the problem. If you let out a property there are legal obligations to be fulfilled before it becomes a ‘commercial’ let.

Maybe this is why your son's ex has been refused housing benefit – is this a legal let?

The law requires the safety and maintenance of the rented accommodation and its contents to prevent injury or damage to the tenant, neighbours and members of the public.

The legal responsibilities of the Landlord for an Assured Short hold tenancy (Landlord & Tenants Act 1985) will include having a Safety Check done on all gas appliances from a Corgi registered tradesman and supplying the tenant with a copy of the Safety Certificate. If the property is furnished then it has to comply with the government’s flammability standards.

There are other conditions to be met which may include:

legal provisions

 

section 17 Public Health Act 1961

 

section 4 Defective Premises Act 1972

 

sections 1, 11, 17, 48 Landlord and Tenant Act 1985

 

sections 190 - 193, 198, 264 - 265, 604, 606 Housing Act 1985

 

sections 79 - 82 Environmental Protection Act 1990

Other factors involve landlord insurance, pay-to- let mortgage, having permission from the mortgagees to let out the building and so on.

This is a useful site which may help to clarify your position:

Landlord's Legal Briefing - LandlordZONE

 

 

As she was illegally evicted then the local authority have to re-house her, she should go see them a.s.a.p.

[The GodMother]

Depands on the councils now. If they are illegally evicted the council my decided the reason for the illegal eviction my not be a reason they can rehouse her and as a result she has to re occupy the property she was evicted from and then they need to legally evict her.

 

This may result in her having to go to court for the landlord to be forced to take her back into the property then apply for the legal eviction.

 

This has been done by my council as when a friends husband drowned they landlord told her to move out and she did.

He had no right to move her out without a court order even tho her husband had died because she was joint tenant. The coucil helped her get back in to the property, which the landlord had relet and the court ordered they had to be moved into a different property which the landlord owned, then he tired to legally evict the wife and kids but the judge turned the landlord down due to the fact that her husband had died was not a evictable reason.

 

Just because the couple have split then i dont think the landlord and leagally evict the one who has the kids and expect a single person to live in the property.

[batty_uk]

Thank you for all your help and advice, however I need to clarify a couple of things.........H was evicted illegally from a private tenancy.....the landlord let himself into the house one day when she had gone to collect the children.......he took the locks off the doors and smashed all his furniture (fully furnished). H and I arrived with the children to find broken chairs, tables, carpets up etc. She went to housing who stated she had to stay there regardless of mess and no locks or she would be classed as making herself homeless!!!!!

[batty_uk]

The reason she was evicted was not because she split with her partner, it was because the landlord wanted to sell the house.........oh and also she was behind with her rent (due to housing benefits!!!!)

[batty_uk]

2 bedroomed flat is too small for her and the landlord will not take DSS which is why I couldn't even pay a deposit for her to move to a private property which was affordable in the area...... none would accept a single mum with 3 kids.

[batty_uk]

"There is no legal reason not to appeal as far as I know (IANAL), but i suspect that they wouldn't win, "

 

 

Sadly they did not win the appeal. The reason was not given in the letter, nor did she have an invite to attend even though H did request it.

 

She has now sent a letter to the MP however I wont hold my breath.

[The GodMother]

you could ask the council why she did not win the appeal.

 

I would have thought that if the property did not have locks on it and was not safe to live in then the council would have had to move her at least that is what our council has to do.

[BADGER 69]

It looks to me as though someone has a good cause to complain about mal administration to the Local Government Ombudsman. Tell your council that you're going to do this. It may make them jump. It did mine.

[The GodMother]

good idea

[batty_uk]

ooooooooh thats a good idea! I didnt think about that.......will have a look

[redsonja]

Batty

 

In simpler terms regarding a commercial let, the council will look at the way this has developed and have to consider the following:

 

Was the tenancy created to take advantage of the benefit system?

 

In their eyes you were quite happily living in your own property and someone has joined you...subsequently you have moved out (admittedly you thought you were doing the right thing to help her) and the girl is now trying to claim Housing Benefit (HB).

 

The council will be looking at this that you have purposely moved out of the house to enable housing benefit to pay your mortgage.

 

Even though in your eyes this is not the case, the onus is on you to prove this.

 

There are also 2 stages of review at HB level.

 

When the original decision is made you have the right to ask for a redetermination. If the redetermination is also denied you then have the right to appeal to an appeals tribunal.

 

An appeals tribunal is an independant panel that look at the case. The claimant HAS the right to attend this tribunal so Im not sure which stage of appeal you got to.

 

This is obviously a frustrating time for you but if you have no further joy at tribunal, I suggest ythe best way forward is for you to give notice to the girl to vacate your property.

 

If she has nowhere to go, the council will have to house her but yes...initially it may be in a B&B until suitable alternative accomodation is available for her.

 

Might not be what you want to hear but unfortunately HB is governed by strict regulations and any query of a claim must be looked into.

 

I hope some of this info is of use to you and I wish you luck with it all.

[batty_uk]

Thanks for that information.........I think I know the answer really but was hoping for a magic wand.

It went to appeal with the HB and then to an appeal board. H has been to the housing section with a letter from me stating I want her out of the house and their reply was................she is your landlord she will have to go through the official channels for eviction!!!! In other words eviction notice and threats of court etc so I cant win.

 

The irony is.......... all this stress has been causing rifts between me and my partner to the point of I don't know how long we will betogether if this continues and the way it is going I may have to move back into my house so I will be back at the beggining!!!

[redsonja]

I dont understand why you have to do threats of court!

 

Giving a tenant notice is enough providing you have adhered to the terms in the tenancy agreement.

 

Give her exact notice of when she has to be out by and the council will have to give her accomodation if she cant find anywhere else.

 

She should start looking for any other private rented accomodation though.

[batty_uk]

Thats the irony of it all.......housing benefits state i am not her landlord and housing state I am! I gave her a letter 4 months ago which she took to the housing office and she was told "she is your landlord and she will have to serve an eviction notice"

 

Also private landlords want a huge deposit and very few will accept HB let alone 3 kids.

[The GodMother]

The reason why private landlords dont accept housing benefit is because they dont sort the claims quick enough and the landlords want there money b4 the claim can be sorted.

 

Even within my local council we are having to wait up to 6 mths for the HB to be sorted and most of the time all the landlords including council and HA have served you with eviction papers by then.

[batty_uk]

yes I know and I understand that. The whole benefits system needs ripping out and starting again!!! So I am still at stalemate

but again thanks to everyone who replied to my post .