eBay - Buy it Now auction - Missing parts upon delivery

[gurj001]

Hello All, My first post on the forum!

 

I'm looking for some advise about a Floor standing lamp I brought from eBay from this seller Branded lighting. Seller got good feedback and sells in high volume- I assumed the seller would be trust worthy.

 

I purchased the lamp and it arrived next day - upon assembling the lamp I realised that the glass diffuser which covers the bulb was missing...

Next step contact the seller....I sent them an email through eBay but no response in 2 days. So i decided to file a dispute on PayPal...got a response within 10 minutes saying.....

 

Hi, we have not received an email from you and would recommend that you send all messages through eBay. Whilst you have a dispute open we are not able to send you any further goods and so you may either return the light for a refund or close the dispute so that we can send you a replacement part. Many thanks.

 

I replayed and included a copy of the email I had sent previously over eBay... also I asked when he would send the missing part if I did close the PayPal dispute...waiting for a response (only been 4 hours)

 

I contacted paypal and they said that if I close the dispute I will be unable to take any further recourse through paypal if the seller does not honour his promise.

 

I feel it is unfair that he demand I close the dispute before the missing part is sent out, the alternative means I will have to pay for return shipping costs if i want a refund.

 

The seller is register as a business on eBay and the item was sold as a "Buy it now" not an auction as such. Ive already checked and Distance Selling Regs do apply to Buy It Now, only thing is I don't know if distance selling regs cover faulty/missing parts /not fit for use scenarios.

 

What legal rights do I have in this situation?

i.e. if i dont close the paypal claim and the seller refused to send the missing part....do i have to take the burden of the return shipping costs just so that i can get my money back?

[buzby]

DON'T close the PayPal claim. I've used this firm before and they're OK, but until the matter is resolved to your satisfaction don;t jeapordise your strong position.

 

Just respond, saying as your are happy with your purchase, PP were only contacted when your original email didn't achieve a response. That said, if they care to send the missing part, on reciept you be happy to close the dispute and enter appropriate feedback. However if they expect you close the dispute in advance of any resolution, you, with regret, will be unable to oblige.

[gurj001]

I have sent them an email to that effect and also copy/pasted it into the paypal dispute.....Really hope this gets sorted out as I would hate to return the lamp.

[the_grey_squirrel]

"Whilst you have a dispute open we are not able to send you any further goods and so you may either return the light for a refund or close the dispute so that we can send you a replacement part."

Sellers are not allowed to do this. This is a violation of the T&C of eBay/PayPal and you need to report this seller.

 

This is well-known tactic from dishonest sellers on eBay:

- buyer contacts seller to report faulty, incomplete or missing goods

- seller ignores all communication from the buyer until he/she opens a dispute with PayPal

- seller puts pressure on the buyer to close the dispute. There are cases where the seller even tells the buyer that having the dispute open "costs them money" (it doesn't).

 

You should NEVER close a PayPal dispute until the transaction is completed to your satisfaction.

[mnrbig]

If I am not mistaken, BUY IT Now on ebay is not a auction. As this is classified as a normal sale, the SOGA applies. Some correct me if I am wrong.

[chaoticj]

gurj001

 

Unfortunately filing a PayPal dispute so soon after sending your original email was not the best thing that you could have done. Speaking as an eBay business seller myself, there is nothing worse than when someone files a PayPal dispute - it is a really good way to get a sellers back up.

 

Now the seller says that they didn't receive your message, well, I note that he is a Titanium PowerSeller - the highest level, and obviously does a lot of business on eBay. It is likely then, that your message may have been overlooked, and you should give him the benefit of the doubt. Lately I have noticed that messages which appear in eBay "my messages" sometimes do not get relayed to my email address, perhaps the same may have ocurred for the seller in question.

 

What I would do if I were you, is send a to-the-point, and polite email, via eBay, and also the same email directly to their email address as listed on their "about me" page, simply stating that the glass diffuser is missing, you contacted them on xx/xx/xx at xxxxam/pm via eBay, you understand that the message may have gone awry and you will give them the benefit of the doubt, you understand that you shouldn't have been so hasty to file a PayPal dispute, but you got worried as to the lack of reply, and would they please be kind enough to give you the benefit of the doubt send you a replacement glass diffuser, then you will close the PayPal dispute immediately upon receipt.

 

You ARE fully covered by Distance Selling Regulations due to it being a "Buy It Now" purchase from a business seller. I would not report them to eBay just yet.. perhaps after you get the matter sorted, if you want to waste your time doing that (eBay do not react in most cases to reports of violations on their site..)

 

It may also be a good idea to request the sellers telephone number, and discuss the matter on the phone. You can do that by going to "advanced search" on eBay on the main homepage, and then on the left hand side, near the bottom of the list under "Members", you can choose "Find contact information", simply enter the User ID, and the eBay item number (found at the top right of the original item page), and you should get their telephone number emailed to you by eBay.

 

Also, I don't agree with you, the_grey_squirrel. I think it is understandable that the seller may ask the buyer to close the dispute. After all there are many dishonest buyers out there (I'm not saying gurj001 is one of them) but if the seller sent out a replacement, and the buyer didn't send the original back, and then PayPal refunded the buyer etc, the seller would be out of pocket indeed..

 

Hopefully you get the matter resolved amicably.. there is always trading standards as a last resort, but you should be able to resolve through simply communicating with the seller, either by email or telephone.

[buzby]

Are you overlooking the fact that the initial PayPal involvement is never 'formal'? It automatically times out if the buyer does nothing, so treating this as a formal complaint to PayPal and demanding the customer ends it is hardly fair. I had a look at my PayPal disputes over the last 2 years - Out of 200+ transactions I had 14 referred to PayPal as item not recieved. Invariably, the goods DO arrive, and the matter ends there - only 1 escalated to a full claim. So - whilst the system may not be ideal, buyers should never be bullied into removing their initial claim, as Paypal states, this only opens a dialogue between the buyer and seller, in which PayPal can sight of - if the matter remains unresolved. I see nothing wrong with that.

[chaoticj]

buzby

 

Are you referring to my post? or another?

 

I am not saying that gurj001 should cancel their PayPal dispute, nor am I saying that it is "the right thing to do" to ask a buyer to cancel a PayPal dispute.

 

I am merely stating the reasons as to why the seller may be asking them to cancel it, before a replacement can be sent.

 

There is a window of 45 days from sending payment to open a PayPal dispute, this is quite a lengthy period of time, hence my statement that it should be used sparingly, as a last resort when all other reasoning fails.

[buzby]

Your post - you're not commenting on the fact that the dispute 'preamble' remains a valid complaint mechanism, that does not smack of a formal ' Paypal dispute'. I see nothing wrong with this method of reaching a solution - especially if the eBay messaging is supposedly so flakey. Wouldn't you agree?

[chaoticj]

buzby

 

Please be sure to PM me your eBay User ID so that I can add you to my blocked bidders list.

 

You are entitled to your opinion on the matter of PayPal disputes as I am to mine.

 

I have offered advice to gurj001, whether they heed that advice is their prerogative, please keep the discussion on track.

[buzby]

Discussion 'on track'? You seem to have a very narrow view of what is acceptable. As for not accepting that any buyer has the right to alert eBay informally of a possible problem, you're clearly taking a similar stance to which the OP's complaining about!

[gurj001]

Update...

 

I emailed the seller explaining that....I opened the dispute on PayPal after i got no response to my email, i also requested the seller phone number though eBay, but the phone number goes to a recorded message saying that everything is handled over email only, also advised that I would close the dispute as soon as the issue is resolved.

 

I emailed the seller direct to the mail ID from there website, through eBay and left the same message for them in the PayPal dispute on the 21st explaining this.

 

As yet I have had no form of response.

(NOTE the public holidays on Friday 21st and Monday 24th - today's the 27th)

 

Getting a little bit worried that there going to try and stiff me..I'm not trying to con them and they should realise that( I've got over 1200 feedback, 100% positive !!!)

 

What can i do if they fail to respond to me or refuse to help in anyway ?

 

- Escalate the dispute to a Claim....if that fails...

- Threatened with legal action ??

[gurj001]

Got an email response

 

Hi,

 

You will need to raise the dispute to a claim and return the lamp for a refund as we are unable to send out any further goods whilst a dispute is open. Should you wish to close the dispute we will be happy to arrange a replacement shade for you.

 

Many thanks.

 

 

Who would pay return postage in this case ? There T&Cs state that the buyer pays return postage for returns under the 7 day cooling off period if you are not happy with the purchase. But does that same rule work if they send out goods not fit for purpose ?

 

[buzby]

A 'Who pays the postage?' argument can often prevent a satisfactory conclusion for the sake of a couple of quid. I'd look on eBay for a courier/parcel company offering discounted UK tracked parcels - these are often 50% lower than what you'd pay over the PO counter, and they collect from your front door. The quicker it gets back, the quicker the matter is resolved!

[gurj001]

Return postage would cost me approx £10 with the likes of parcels2go...

 

I'm more concerned about my legal right in this situation...

 

According to Distance selling regs, I'm entitled to have the original postage cost refunded , but its not clear who pays return postage for goods not fit for purpose.

 

If they decide not to refund the original postage paid my me and expect me to pay return post then i lose out on almost £20 on and £45 item !! ( I need to confirm, what they are offering as a refund)

[buzby]

Nobody said buying online was easy! Why not explain that the cost of shipping out and back would far outweigh any benefit in getting the item back, simply for them to confirm that a necessary part was missing? I'm sure if you identify the missing bit and say if they supply this you'll be a happy bunny, saves a lot of aggro (and money)?

[mnrbig]

I had a dispute with a ebay seller who lied about the goods. I made a claim and Paypal basically found in my favour, but I had to return the goods at my cost. This meant I would have not had the goods and been £10 poorer.

[gurj001]

I emailed brandedlighting4u over 10 times and they failed to respond. Next is court action

 

(It becomes apparent that this seller is notorious for ignoring buyers emails - or claiming that they never received any email from the buyer)

 

See there negative feedback from buyers here - eBay Feedback Checker for brandedlighting

 

Are there any template letters available that I could use to notify the seller that court action is pending if they don't delivery the missing parts?

Edited July 9, 2008 by gurj001

[gurj001]

This issue never got resolved...

 

They did after a few weeks send out the missing glass shade for the lamp. However it arrived shattered into tiny pieces, who ever packed it did a very poor job, it was just wrapped in bubbles warp and put into a flimsy cardboard sleeve. I singed for the item as 'Damaged' when DHL delivered it.

 

I emailed them back numerous times, explaining that due to the poor packing the shade was delivered broken, they promised to send out a replacement, which they failed to do, Emailed a few more times, no response.

 

Left them negative feedback comment which got a quick reply stating that they will be sending a replacement, replecement did not arrive and since then they have ignored all my emails.

 

The lamps has been sitting the garage since and its been out of mind, but while tidying up i saw it sitting there.....

 

Now, is it to late to take this to Small Claims court ?

[buzby]

Not at all - but you newed to send them an LBA, setting out the problem and what you require to resolve the issue. Note their unwillingness to reply to your emails and list the dates. Send it by RD. THIS then becomes your substantiation for your statement of claim.

[hightail]

I have come to the conclusion that buying from a business seller through ebay only leads to complications if something goes wrong. Buy direct and DSRs or SOGA are your friends. Buy through ebay and even if the goods are faulty/damaged/incomplete the buyer is stung for return carriage. I might find a supplier through ebay but now deal direct only with sellers who supply a phone number on a listing and have a human to answer the phone. Never had a problem dealing direct.