Alleged gross misconduct thoughts please.

[capt1964]

Submitted my Appeal today the Grounds of the Appeal are

 

The decision was not reasonable based on facts presented at the hearing

 

I strongly refute the allegation that I went in search of the questions

 

The level of punishment is unreasonable bearing in mind the facts of the case

 

No financial or personal gain would result if I was successful in the interview.

 

Been advised the appeal will take up to five weeks. Once again thanks for your help

[capt1964]

Sorry for adding more to this thread you will all be getting fed up of me. I have found out that emails that were marked as Private and Confidential that were sent by my Union Rep to members of IT to request information were forwarded to the investigation officer prior to the hearing and one of the recipients actually had a discussion with the investigating officer about what he was going to answer is this normal practise. Some of the replies were not presented in my evidence for consideration pack but were brought up by the investigating officer when we had not submitted them. Some of the answers we deemed as not relevant or were not relevant to my defence. Hope that makes sense

[cal37]

I’d would have to ask why was the union rep e-mailing this stuff. It should always be on paper. Is the union rep a full time rep or is this your shop steward still? I ask this because it really needs a full time official to deal with this and he/she needs to let the union legal dept look at the case.

[capt1964]

This was the the shop steward. Ive now seen the full time rep and he's dealing with the appeal. Think it would have happened even if it had been by letter

[capt1964]

Having been dismissed for alleged Gross Misconduct I now have an appeal on 4th April. Has any one on here ever been reinstated after an appeal or is the best I can hope for is to have Gross Misconduct changed to termination by mutual consent

[Goldlady]

It would depend on the circumstances capt1964. And on the company involved.

 

If you have been treated unfairly then perhaps you need to consider a tribunal claim. However if there are grounds for the allegation then perhaps the mutual consent thing is the way forward.

[capt1964]

Gold Lady.

I posted a thread during my Disciplinary Hearing its at the thread below it covers an outline of the case against me

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/employment-problems/128811-alleged-gross-misconduct-thoughts-new-post.html

[cal37]

I`v not been reinstated after an appeal but i know many that have been.

 

Good luck i think you have a strong case.

[capt1964]

Thanks for the support Cal37. Ive now found out that two of the senior managers have offered to attend to give me character references although not in my department might carry a bit of weight

[Beanie1]

Hiya, Ive only just picked up the thread so a little belated.

 

Have read through your initial thread and by the sounds of it you have been led into admitting wrongdoing. A couple of points from holding my own disciplinaries but the procedure might be slightly different from the council.

 

1. Did you receive an initial letter inviting you to disciplinary or was this a phone call? If it was a letter did it state on the letter that a possible outcome of the hearing may be dismissal?

 

2. You mentioned that someone had a conversation about an email you had sent and this was brought up in the disciplinary hearing? If you werent aware that this was going to be brought up then this should be inadmissable and shouldnt have been brought up (as well as a breach of DPA)

 

You could have a good chance of reinstatement if they havent followed their own procedures (this can and frequently does happen), best advice I can give is to scrutinise any letters you have received and play the innocence card in the appeal hearing.

[capt1964]

Appeal Friday got their evidence pack today. They have added numerous further documents to the pack since the hearing. The statements that I made during the investigation which are in the pack are not signed by me and are the original ones before I amended certain details. The new documents are all dated before I was dismissed so were available but not given to me. Is this right that they can one add further information and two use information not presented at the hearing to form their decision

[capt1964]

Just got back from the appeal. I lost the appeal. They did not give a reason just that I will be informed by letter of the decision. The union rep contested the addition of the new evidence and was informed that it was admissible as it was a new hearing. The management side consisted of the technical expert who was also a witness and asked me questions. The original investigating officer. Amember from HR and the person who chaired the hearing. So I got interogated by all four at the conclusion of my evidence. All four stayed in the hearing throughout What do I do now.

[bed32]

It seems that the best outcome for you now would be to negotiate a compromise agreement, changing this from "gross misconduct" to "mutual consent", and getting something by way of compensation

 

You certainly have a case should you take it to a tribunal, but IMHO it is by no means certain that you would win

[capt1964]

Just a quick point whilst I remember during the managements summary at the end of the appeal the lead officer accused me of hacking into the machine. This is illegal. I used my normal account that had been granted the rights of access to enable the policing of the network how can this be deemed as hacking

[bed32]

At this point I'm not sure that what has happened in the disciplinary meetings and appeal have much bearing on the situation. You have probably now exhausted your company's appeal process. You could possibly use the grievance procedure to get further hearings, but that is unlikely to produce any results.

 

A couple of points you need to think about:

a) Do you think you really have been dismissed for the reasons they state, or is there some ulterior motive and they are just using this as an excuse?

 

b) How long will it take you to get another job?

 

If you can get another job quickly they you probably don't want to go to the hassle of taking them to a tribunal, but you can still use the threat of it to try to win some concessions from them. For example to change it from misconduct to mutual consent, and getting an agreed wording for a reference.

[capt1964]

Thanks for the reply Bed32. Problem I have got is I have been short listed for several positions and interviewed. Two very senior managers have agreed to give me references as they do not agree with what has happened. But problem is that when the prospective employer asks the council for a reference they either refuse or just state dismissed for Gross misconduct and list any time I had off for sick which is zero. Ive now registered with two agencies as some one else advised on another thread. I'm just really annoyed In the way I have been treated since being dismissed and when during the appeal I was accused of Hacking that was the last straw

[Goldlady]

I think you need to seriously think about threatening them with a tribunal. After all they are now jeopardising your future career prospects as well. I think someone above mentioned a compromise agreement and I would suggest that you find a solicitor who can help you with one of these - usually the employer ends up footing the bill as it is a way of stopping tribunal proceedings.

[capt1964]

I have spoke to a more senior member of the union who as stated that once I get the appeal result in writing they will arrange for me to see a solicitor. I was on an interview on Friday for a three month contract through the agency. The agency will inform me tomorrow if I have been successful. If I am this should enable me to change my last employer to this contract. The agency are aware of what has gone on. Thanks for your reply GoldLady

[bed32]

If the union are paying for the solicitor then clearly you go with that advice.

 

The deal you want is a standard compromise agreement. There is no reason for the council not to go with that - it costs them nothing and were you to take them to a tribunal it would take a lot of time and money, even if you were to lose.

[kennythecelt]

Hi Captain:)

I am going to arrange for this thread to be merged with your original thread on this matter so that it provides a comprehensive record of the issues leading to this appeal and subsequent advice.

Regards, Kenny:)

[capt1964]

Well got the reply did not get the position. Would appear they contacted the council who informed them I had been dismissed for Gross Misconduct but would not divulge what the offence was.

[bed32]

Well got the reply did not get the position. Would appear they contacted the council who informed them I had been dismissed for Gross Misconduct but would not divulge what the offence was.

I know it is hard, but you have to be upfront about why you left the council. It will come out when they take up references, as almost all employers do, and if that says "Gross Misconduct" and you have not previously told them you are VERY unlikely to be given the job.

 

It is far better to address this matter head-on during the interview process when you have the chance to put your side of the story. If you have brought it up in the IV process they cannot hold it against you when you when it comes up on the reference.

[Allwood]

As mentioned this will affect your future reference therefore if they refuse to let you know what you have done then send for this information under the S.A.R and as you work for Local Authority they will have to provide it to you within, I think, 21 days not 40 days like outside the government bodies:confused:

[capt1964]

Well its been a week since my appeal and still no written notice. The union are saying I cannot progress this any further until I receive the verdict. Asked the union about whether a witness can stay in the hearing and they said it was up to the appeal panel. Originally before going in I was told he was giving evidence and then acting as a technical expert for the panel. But he sat with the management team and questioned my witness's is this right

[hanzo]

Please keep in mind your time limits for a complaint to an employment tribunal. You have 3 months from date of dismissal, whether or not you go through the whole appeals process. Don't let them string it out so long that the matter would be time-barred. The correct thing to do if you want to complete the appeals process is to stick in your tribunal claim form (ET1) and in the additional information section request that the case be stayed (sisted in Scotland) until the appeal procedure can be completed.