pipe sticking out of ground, damaged car.

[big blue one]

hi everyone, not sure if this is the rights spot to put this but couldn't find anywhere better.

 

hopefully you can help me with my issue and let me know wether i aint got a hope in hell, or dammit i should be fuming and be completely reimbursed.....

 

a couple of weeks ago i went to buy some carpet and pulled onto the car park of walsall carpets,

i then realised they were closed and so carried on driving across the car park and "**crunch**" i stopped,

reversed back a few feet and found a pipe sticking out of the ground approx 1 1/2 feet high, dark grey in clour,

no warning sign, no cone to point it out, not wrapped in any flourescent colouring etc etc...

it had damaged the lower front end of my car it had a nice crack in the bumper,

the lower grill was broken, and have since found out that my radiator is bent.

i reckon approx £1500 worth of damage.

 

question is

 

 

do i have a right to claim compensation to pay for the repairs thru walsall carpets?

as it was their car park and the pipe was too small to see and shouldn't be there in the first place...

...or am i having a laugh and should just make a claim on the insurance and look where im going in future??

 

please help, and if i have a claim, what letter should i send?

 

 

have a few piccies to help you visualise....

[big blue one]

do i take it this is a lost battle? can anyone help?

[big blue one]

iss it worth using the legal protection in my insurance to fight the claim for me? or will they just use it as an excuse to file an accident and lose me my no claims?

[Parva]

That pipe is so photoshopped that it's untrue!

[electron99]

That pipe is so photoshopped that it's untrue!

 

 

Looking at the damage to the underside of the car, it is quite remarkable that the pipe is still sticking up. With all due respect to the O.P, should they be driving without glasses

[-sparky-]

It has to be said that in order to drive over that pipe the driver of the vehicle actually had to mount the pavement the pipe is sticking out of...

 

The driver had no reason to drive over the paved area and therefore has to bear full responsibility for the damage caused to their car...

[borisbeaver]

Sorry to play Devils Advocate, but you drove into it and not the other way round. There does not appear to be anything obstructing the view of it and could be described as careless driving.

 

As a driver, you are expected to be able to see what's in front of you.

 

You give no indications of the light conditions either.

[robin9342]

It has to be said that in order to drive over that pipe the driver of the vehicle actually had to mount the pavement the pipe is sticking out of...

The pipe is quite clearly sticking out on the edging bricks of the car park, NOT the pavement, therefore is on the carpet shop's land. However, as the pipe is right next to the kerb, it could be argued that you were moving too fast, especially to cause that much damage.

 

I would submit your claim, along with the photos to your insurance company and let them decide whether to pursue the carpet shop.

[-sparky-]

The pipe is quite clearly sticking out on the edging bricks of the car park, NOT the pavement, therefore is on the carpet shop's land. However, as the pipe is right next to the kerb, it could be argued that you were moving too fast, especially to cause that much damage.

 

Wherever the pipe is sticking out from the ONLY way you are going to be able to drive into it is by mounting the pavement in some form or other...

 

Any claim by you for driving into the pipe will be countered by their claim that you are guilty of careless driving...

 

And anyway... you have freely admitted you were on their property after they closed... Trespass anyone?

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Wherever the pipe is sticking out from the ONLY way you are going to be able to drive into it is by mounting the pavement in some form or other...

 

How do you know this?

 

It is a shop and clearly there is, in the photo, room for car parking outside, so one would imagine there is an entrance which just isn't shown on the pics.

 

What if somebody drove in to the car park and then reversed to park?

 

And then hit the pipe?

 

At night? (Which one can reasonably assume happened to the OP as he said the shop was closed, maybe after 5pm? or even later? and it is winter and dark at about that time)

 

In a 4x4? (Where the driver is raised and the pipe is only, by estimation from the pic, about a foot)

 

Any claim by you for driving into the pipe will be countered by their claim that you are guilty of careless driving... See above. Also, regardless if the OP was reversing or not there is clearly a hazard here.

 

And anyway... you have freely admitted you were on their property after they closed... Trespass anyone? No:confused:

 

It is a shop that looks as though there are no shutters when closed.

 

There are sale notices abound and also notices on the door.

 

Are people only allowed to read these notices 9 to 5 or whatever?

 

 

 

 

Take this further OP and write to the store in the first instance.

[electron99]

Take this further OP and write to the store in the first instance.

 

The damage is to the offside of the vehicle, and whatever direction or reversing movement took place, the only way that damage could have been caused would be to have driven with the passengers side on the pavement; unless the driver was approaching the pipe, in which case he/she should have seen it.

[robin9342]

Wherever the pipe is sticking out from the ONLY way you are going to be able to drive into it is by mounting the pavement in some form or other...

Nope. The pipe is quite clearly IN the car park NEXT to the pavement. Its perfectly possible to hit that pipe WITHOUT mounting the pavement. The OP should contact his insurers especially as he states he has legal protection.

 

The shop might counter that in order to cause that much damage, the OP was driving too fast, but even so, an obstruction is an obstruction. Probably best to let insurance deal.

[robin9342]

The damage is to the offside of the vehicle, and whatever direction or reversing movement took place, the only way that damage could have been caused would be to have driven with the passengers side on the pavement; unless the driver was approaching the pipe, in which case he/she should have seen it.

I don't think so. Look at the photographs (3rd one in particular) and it appears to me there are two car parks, separated by a strip of pavement, one belonging to the carpet shop and the other, perhaps a different shop. Why would the OP enter the other car park, then drive over the pavement to get into the carpet shop's car park?

[big blue one]

just to clear a few things up,

the pipe is not on a pavement,

the part you mention just seperates two car parks,

 

 

one for the petrol station

behind where the photo is viewing.

 

 

the entrance is at the far end of the car park furthest away from the pipe.

 

 

it was dusk at the time of the accident, (day after boxing day, therfore quite dark at arount 5pm-ish.

was not going 'fast' at all,

had actually stopped just short of said pipe,

and when realised was closed pulled away and immidietely hit the pipe.

it could not be seen over the end of my bonnet.

 

 

the pipe did not bend in any way it is made from very thick metal,

and is infact still facing towards the angle where i hit it,

hence the amount of damage as it went through the grill into the rad.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

just to clear a few things up, the pipe is not on a pavement, the part you mention just seperates two car prks, one for the petrol station behind where the photo is viewing. the entrance is at the far end of the car park furthest away from the pipe. it was dusk at the time of the accident, (day after boxing day, therfore quite dark at arount 5pm-ish. was not going 'fast' at all, had actually stopped just short of said pipe, and when realised was closed pulled away and immidietely hit the pipe. it could not be seen over the end of my bonnet. the pipe did not bend in any way it is made from very thick metal, and is infafact still facing towards the angle where i hit it, hence the amount of damage as it went through the grill into the rad.

 

Quite right OP.

 

It's fair to say that this is a hazard.

 

If one can imagine this car park full of shoppers and then you happen to wait for somebody pulling out of the parking space which also happens to be the one space where that pipe is.

 

It is entirely reasonable that whilst then reversing into the vacted parking space, which contains the pipe hazard, one could easily not even notice it due to the small height of it, in darkness, in a raised driver's seat etc etc.

 

I can see you were not reversing, however, the point I am putting forward is to establish that there is a hazard. That is needed for a successful claim.

[Helford]

The premises freeholders (not necessarily the shop proprioters?) have a duty of care to to all and sundry and a reasonable person could rightly suggest that the pipe is a hazard to any person on those premises. For example someone with impaired sight could come a cropper!

 

Defective Premises Act 1972 springs to mind!

 

Given that you had reasonable grounds to be on the premises and suffered damage to your property, a claim on your car insurance citing property holder as defendent is not unreasonable. As we have seen, perversly even intruders are owed the same duty of care in law.

 

Only last week ASDA was prosecuted by the Health and Safety Executive for an horrific accident at a store in South Wales when a car park barrier slammed into a chaps moving car causing his tragic loss of life. Companies are responsible for their premises regardless. I appreciate this is a slightly different scenario.

 

H

[Conniff]

..

[Helford]

Conniff,

 

I would suggest that damage IS consistant with being hit by said pipe.

 

Car panels are designed to deform in low speed impacts and the valence would temporarily deform inwards allowing the pipe to puncture the plastic grill and impact the radiator foils.

 

...............................

 

H

[Conniff]

If you look at the empty post above you, you will notice that I deleted that post. I did that after having another look at the pics.

[-sparky-]

just to clear a few things up, the pipe is not on a pavement, the part you mention just seperates two car prks, one for the petrol station behind where the photo is viewing. the entrance is at the far end of the car park furthest away from the pipe. it was dusk at the time of the accident, (day after boxing day, therfore quite dark at arount 5pm-ish. was not going 'fast' at all, had actually stopped just short of said pipe, and when realised was closed pulled away and immidietely hit the pipe. it could not be seen over the end of my bonnet. the pipe did not bend in any way it is made from very thick metal, and is infafact still facing towards the angle where i hit it, hence the amount of damage as it went through the grill into the rad.

 

And I will say again that the only way you could hit this pipe, and from the damage caused to the car, is if you mounted the pavement...

 

From your picture 2: Showing the pipe, and from your picture 5: Showing the front of the car...

 

Picture 2:

If you were driving from left to right in the picture, your drivers side wheel would be on the pavement...

If you were driving from right to left then the car would be straddling the pavement...

If you were driving towards the viewer of the pic then you were about to bounce over the pavement...

And if you were driving away from the viewer of the pic then you have already bounced over the pavement...

 

By all means you should write to the store or the petrol station to point out the hazard nature of this item but as your car shouldn't have been in any position to hit it in the first place, bsically, you only have yourself to blame...

 

(For example... would you blame the store if you'd punctured a tyre by bouncing up on the pavement you so obviously hit?)

[skbuncks]

And I will say again that the only way you could hit this pipe, and from the damage caused to the car, is if you mounted the pavement...

 

From your picture 2: Showing the pipe, and from your picture 5: Showing the front of the car...

 

Picture 2:

If you were driving from left to right in the picture, your drivers side wheel would be on the pavement...

If you were driving from right to left then the car would be straddling the pavement...

If you were driving towards the viewer of the pic then you were about to bounce over the pavement...

And if you were driving away from the viewer of the pic then you have already bounced over the pavement...

 

By all means you should write to the store or the petrol station to point out the hazard nature of this item but as your car shouldn't have been in any position to hit it in the first place, bsically, you only have yourself to blame...

 

(For example... would you blame the store if you'd punctured a tyre by bouncing up on the pavement you so obviously hit?)

 

I think not, if you were travelling from right to left in a circular motion, ie to get back to entrance/exit, you would impact the pipe as it is clearly sticking out at an angle into the car park.

 

 

 

skb

[-sparky-]

I think not, if you were travelling from right to left in a circular motion, ie to get back to entrance/exit, you would impact the pipe as it is clearly sticking out at an angle into the car park.skb

 

What?? Have you seen where the damage is on the car?

 

WHICHEVER way you approach the pipe the ONLY way you can physically drive into it would involve part of your car broaching the paved area...

Especially with the damage as evidenced...

 

You *could* cause damage to the car if you nudged into it when parking your car at a right angle to the paved area, either forward, or in reverse... But you certainly wouldn't cause THAT amount of damage...

[big blue one]

agin it is not the pavement the side the pipe is on is flat, the other side there is a kerb. just gonna send a letter and see...

[robin9342]

-sparky- I am sorry to have to say your spatial awareness may be impaired.

 

It IS perfectly possible to hit that pipe, straight on, WITHOUT mounting the pavement. Take a careful look at the photos again.

[Conniff]

Must admit that it looks like a raised (two curb) separation island. I would take another pic to show that it is just one sided and get that letter off to the company. Have you informed your insurance co yet?