Natwest Keep racking up the interest - PART II

[steven4064]

I would go for it

[vexlitigant]

Steven

 

A belated thanks:p

 

Been going over and over the paperwortk on this........

 

Still have a nagging concern w.r.t. the final q from Shoos when they last wrote

"Please particularise the details of your account closure in xx xxxx, including details of when the accounbt was closed, evidence that our client (bank) was informed of the closure"

 

 

1. What is the significance of this question???
   
2. If the bank had sent a correctly detailed Default Notice, then surely this would have served as the notice of termination ????
   
3. Is this an attempt by the solicitors to trip me up and have me say "oh but your client terminated this agreement, and did so in the Default Notice received by me on....." ???????
   

 

They have been unable to produce a default notice thus far, and i'm getting excited.

 

As always, Thanks, Vex

[steven4064]

They seem to be implying that you closed the account. I would write back and say that the account was close by their client in around whatever but you don't know exactly because you weren't sent a default notice.

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Vex,

 

Just re-read your thread, and don't know whether or not I have missed something. Have you had a court date yet????????

[vexlitigant]

They seem to be implying that you closed the account. I would write back and say that the account was close by their client in around whatever but you don't know exactly because you weren't sent a default notice.

 

 

i'll pop that into the CPR 31.14 request that i am ashamed to admit has (is) taken me a week to draft!!

[vexlitigant]

Hello Vex,

 

Just re-read your thread, and don't know whether or not I have missed something. Have you had a court date yet????????

 

 

Hello HHNF.

 

You haven't missed anything. I do not have a court date yet, although of course we are technically 'in court'. No hearing date, no date indicating when i will be required to turn up in person.

 

I mean if we all keep waiting i might as well not bother to contend it, as equity in house is fast dissapearing, and bankrupcy appears to offer a path of lesser resistance:p.

 

Vex

[vexlitigant]

Court Correspondence - "Notice of Allocation to the Multi-track"

 

Hi All

 

I have received letter from the court, and would appreciate some plain english guidance as to what i am required to do - Please:)

 

here is copy of letter, word for word

 

District Judge XXXXXXX has considered the statements of case and AQ's filed and allocated the claim to the multi-track.

 

1. Each party by xx xx 09 to give standard disclosure to every party by list. Any requests for inspection or copies of disclosed documents shall be made within 7 days after service of the list.

 

2. Each party by xx xx 09 by simultaneous exchange serve on every other party the witness statements of the evidence on which that party intends to rely in relation to any issues of fact to be decided at the trial, and any notices of intention to rely on hearsay evidence.

 

3. No expert evidence being necessary, no party has permission to call or rely on expert evidence.

 

4. Pre-trial checklists to be sent to the parties by xx xx 09 and the completed Pre-Trial checklists shall be filed by xx xx 09. The claimant must file with the checklists;-

 

a) Copies of all statements of case (including schedules), witness statements and experts reports, which have not already been filed

b) a case summary not exceeding 500 words and draft listing directions which must include or attach a proposed trial timetable, allowing for all stages of trial including the judges reading time, and consideration and delivery of judgement. These document must be agreed with the other party if possible. If not the claimant must explain.

 

5. The trial shall take place between xx xx 09 and xx xx 09. Time allowed - 1 day.

 

6. If the claim or part of the claim is settled the parties must inform the court

 

7. IMPORTANT NOTICE. The parties attention is drawn to their duty under CPR1.3 to help the court further the overriding objective which includes ensuring that the case is dealt with expeditiously.

 

The parties may agree to vary the timetable, but NOT so as to alter the date for return of Pre-Trial checklists, a pre trial review, a case management conference or the trial date or trial window.

 

Any failure to attend of to file the pre-trials checklist, is likely to result without further warning in a sanction which may under CPR3.4 , include striking out of the defaulting party's case

 

So... I am looking for some guidance, as i am now VERY much in uncharted territory

 

Thanks, Vex

[steven4064]

Hi Vex - translation (in red)

Court Correspondence - "Notice of Allocation to the Multi-track"

 

Hi All

 

I have received letter from the court, and would appreciate some plain english guidance as to what i am required to do - Please:)

 

here is copy of letter, word for word

 

District Judge XXXXXXX has considered the statements of case and AQ's filed and allocated the claim to the multi-track. straightforward - the case is alloceted to multi-track

 

1. Each party by xx xx 09 to give standard disclosure to every party by list. Any requests for inspection or copies of disclosed documents shall be made within 7 days after service of the list. You have to send the othe side a list of all the documents you intend to use in the case byteh date shown and they have to do the ame to you. You have 7 days after that to ask to go and see any of the documents on their list.

 

2. Each party by xx xx 09 by simultaneous exchange serve on every other party the witness statements of the evidence on which that party intends to rely in relation to any issues of fact to be decided at the trial, and any notices of intention to rely on hearsay evidence. You have to submit a statemnt of evidence - basically an outline of the argument you intend to use with the bits of relevant statutes pointed out and any relevant case law - they have to do the same.

 

3. No expert evidence being necessary, no party has permission to call or rely on expert evidence. You can't call any expert witnesses

 

4. Pre-trial checklists to be sent to the parties by xx xx 09 and the completed Pre-Trial checklists shall be filed by xx xx 09. The claimant must file with the checklists;-

 

a) Copies of all statements of case (including schedules), witness statements and experts reports, which have not already been filed

b) a case summary not exceeding 500 words and draft listing directions which must include or attach a proposed trial timetable, allowing for all stages of trial including the judges reading time, and consideration and delivery of judgement. These document must be agreed with the other party if possible. If not the claimant must explain.You have to complete a pre-trial checklist - see CPR rule 29.6 - PART 29 - THE MULTI-TRACK and you must include this information as well

5. The trial shall take place between xx xx 09 and xx xx 09. Time allowed - 1 day. Trial dates

 

6. If the claim or part of the claim is settled the parties must inform the court Fairly obvious

 

7. IMPORTANT NOTICE. The parties attention is drawn to their duty under CPR1.3 to help the court further the overriding objective which includes ensuring that the case is dealt with expeditiously. This is a warning particularly to the bank not to mess about and try to delay or obfuscate

The parties may agree to vary the timetable, but NOT so as to alter the date for return of Pre-Trial checklists, a pre trial review, a case management conference or the trial date or trial window. Fairly obvious

 

Any failure to attend of to file the pre-trials checklist, is likely to result without further warning in a sanction which may under CPR3.4 , include striking out of the defaulting party's case Obey the instructions or have your case dimissed

 

So... I am looking for some guidance, as i am now VERY much in uncharted territory

 

Thanks, Vex

[vexlitigant]

Steven. Thanks for that.

 

Just looking for some additional answers (i have two questions). The correspondence has come in one big chunk in past few days.

 

So. In respect of the court letter. I WILL NOT seek any additional details for that letter yet, save the one that i have to respond to first.

 

First query:

 

So... in respect of standard disclosure - 1/ What should i expect from the solicitors - and what am i likely to get (will there be a difference?) To date they have not admitted to having a default or termination notice in their posession. If this is not furnished on me at this point, can it come into the proceedings later? 2/ What exaclty am i supposed to serve upon the solicitors???:idea:

 

Second query:

 

I received a response to my CPR 31.14 request:

 

Agreement - Still insisting that they have supplied me with this, although it is not signed, and they are still asserting it does not need to be - Section 180 of CCA '74 and Cancellation notices & regs 1983 section 2(3) (a) & (b)

 

Default Notice and Termination Notice - 1 year has passed since I requested these (ok it was via a Subject Access Request) and almost 10 months since I asked for these specifically. We have been in court since June last year, and they still have not got these. Here is the applicable part of their response to the 31.14 request:

 

"We have requested from our client copies of the DN & TN relating to your account (actually there are TWO accounts!! - Loan & o/d ) and will supply these to you as soon as we have received them. It is highly unlikely that our client will be able to supply this documentation within seven days and we will provide copies of the requested documents as soon as they become available to us"

 

Is this an acceptable answer to a 31.14 request ???? This is a long long time now, and I would have thought that this would have flushed them out. Where can I take that,. Is there any room for strike out application from me?

 

Appreciate any input here in advance

 

Regards, Vex

[vexlitigant]

Bump

[vexlitigant]

I know this impolitely impatient, but i'm not likely to be online for a day or two from tonight, and didn't want to leave this too long so.....

 

BUMP (again - sorry)

[vexlitigant]

Bumpety Bump?

[vexlitigant]

:(

[AT99]

Hi Vex

 

Looks like it has gone quiet.

 

My opinion is that you can only work with what they have given you. You should prepare/outline a secondary stance in case they actually turn up the required documents but they are running out of time.

 

As with my case, you can only keep asking for the correct documents, correctly completed, until they can no longer submit them.

 

As for what you should serve on the solicitors, I can only see that you need to serve your witness statement plus the statement of any others you may call (their posty perhaps!) plus copies of letters sent. These letters should be numbered and refered to in your witness statement. Perhaps you could call every person who has sent you a letter as a witness to ask how that particular request was handled and what they did to fulfil it.

 

You must be careful in your statement though as if they have no documents they may be hoping you admit to taking out the loan/account or refer to a contractual relationship in some way. You only need to dis-prove their claim.

 

AT

[vexlitigant]

As i wrote in your post. Does anyone know if the CAG Court Buddy system works?

[vexlitigant]

Steven. Thanks for that.

 

Just looking for some additional answers (i have two questions). The correspondence has come in one big chunk in past few days.

 

So. In respect of the court letter. I WILL NOT seek any additional details for that letter yet, save the one that i have to respond to first.

 

First query:

 

So... in respect of standard disclosure - 1/ What should i expect from the solicitors - and what am i likely to get (will there be a difference?) To date they have not admitted to having a default or termination notice in their posession. If this is not furnished on me at this point, can it come into the proceedings later? 2/ What exaclty am i supposed to serve upon the solicitors???:idea:

 

Second query:

 

I received a response to my CPR 31.14 request:

 

Agreement - Still insisting that they have supplied me with this, although it is not signed, and they are still asserting it does not need to be - Section 180 of CCA '74 and Cancellation notices & regs 1983 section 2(3) (a) & (b)

 

Default Notice and Termination Notice - 1 year has passed since I requested these (ok it was via a Subject Access Request) and almost 10 months since I asked for these specifically. We have been in court since June last year, and they still have not got these. Here is the applicable part of their response to the 31.14 request:

 

"We have requested from our client copies of the DN & TN relating to your account (actually there are TWO accounts!! - Loan & o/d ) and will supply these to you as soon as we have received them. It is highly unlikely that our client will be able to supply this documentation within seven days and we will provide copies of the requested documents as soon as they become available to us"

 

Is this an acceptable answer to a 31.14 request ???? This is a long long time now, and I would have thought that this would have flushed them out. Where can I take that,. Is there any room for strike out application from me?

 

Appreciate any input here in advance

 

Regards, Vex

 

BUMP

Edited January 23, 2009 by vexlitigant
Larger font on the BUMP

[paulwlton]

Second query:

 

I received a response to my CPR 31.14 request:

 

Agreement - Still insisting that they have supplied me with this, although it is not signed, and they are still asserting it does not need to be - Section 180 of CCA '74 and Cancellation notices & regs 1983 section 2(3) (a) & (b)

 

They are hiding behind the 1983 regs. I would write back and make them aware that your request for a copy of the original agreement is made pursuant to CPR 31.14 not section 77 Consumer Credit Act 1974 which does allow them to omitt ones signature.

 

PW

[pt2537]

 

First query:

 

So... in respect of standard disclosure - 1/ What should i expect from the solicitors - and what am i likely to get (will there be a difference?) To date they have not admitted to having a default or termination notice in their posession. If this is not furnished on me at this point, can it come into the proceedings later? 2/ What exaclty am i supposed to serve upon the solicitors???:idea:

 

Second query:

 

I received a response to my CPR 31.14 request:

 

Agreement - Still insisting that they have supplied me with this, although it is not signed, and they are still asserting it does not need to be - Section 180 of CCA '74 and Cancellation notices & regs 1983 section 2(3) (a) & (b)

 

Default Notice and Termination Notice - 1 year has passed since I requested these (ok it was via a Subject Access Request) and almost 10 months since I asked for these specifically. We have been in court since June last year, and they still have not got these. Here is the applicable part of their response to the 31.14 request:

 

"We have requested from our client copies of the DN & TN relating to your account (actually there are TWO accounts!! - Loan & o/d ) and will supply these to you as soon as we have received them. It is highly unlikely that our client will be able to supply this documentation within seven days and we will provide copies of the requested documents as soon as they become available to us"

 

Is this an acceptable answer to a 31.14 request ???? This is a long long time now, and I would have thought that this would have flushed them out. Where can I take that,. Is there any room for strike out application from me?

 

Appreciate any input here in advance

 

Regards, Vex

 

Right then

 

Q1

 

Standard disclosure is dealt with by effectivly a list of the documents they hold in their possession and will rely upon at trial. they will not send you the actual documents at this stage just a list of names of the docs they have.

 

you then have to ask them if you wish to inspect a copy of any of the documents they have listed

 

they may send you a list they may not, if they do not by the deadline then you should raise the matter with the court

 

You should also serve upon the other side as directed by the court, a list of documents upon which you are relying upon.

 

heres the standard form you use The requested resource (/HMCSCourtFinder/tiles/Her Majesty's Courts Service -Forms and Guidance) is not available

 

it is a N265

 

Q2

with regards to the second point, a reply to CPR 31.14 should provide you with documents which they have pleaded in their statement of case. it is not unusual for a solicitor to have to wait on their clients to supply this information.

 

however the purpose of CPR 31.14 is normally to allow you to access documents which you have identified as being central to your defence and without them you will be unable to plead.

[vexlitigant]

Second query:

 

I received a response to my CPR 31.14 request:

 

Agreement - Still insisting that they have supplied me with this, although it is not signed, and they are still asserting it does not need to be - Section 180 of CCA '74 and Cancellation notices & regs 1983 section 2(3) (a) & (b)

 

They are hiding behind the 1983 regs. I would write back and make them aware that your request for a copy of the original agreement is made pursuant to CPR 31.14 not section 77 Consumer Credit Act 1974 which does allow them to omitt ones signature.

 

PW

 

Thanks for that Paul.

 

BTW. You still got your thing going on?

[paulwlton]

Thanks for that Paul.

 

BTW. You still got your thing going on?

 

Yes, we recently exposed RBSs accounting practices in the Sunday Times.

 

Keep up the fight.

 

PW

[vexlitigant]

Right then

 

 

 

it is not unusual for a solicitor to have to wait on their clients to supply this information.

 

 

8 months !!!!! - to get hold of documents, and then a complete fudge about what they have sent me.

[pt2537]

no maybe 8 months is a bit long

 

i was giving a general view that was all

[vexlitigant]

I know;)

 

Just sitting here tapping out another missive to NW's solicitors. Is it me, or are they deliberately starting to twist things?

[vexlitigant]

Still unclear about what I (me)am supposed to offer the other party by way of standard disclosure

 

ALSO. What do i have to do with the Listing questionnaire??

 

Thx

[vexlitigant]

I mean, i can't see that i have anything to disclose??