I have a summons for payment of council tax from a neighbouring council to the one I currently live in from almost 2 years ago, when I rented a property for 6 weeks whilst refurbing mine. Now the agreement with the landlord was that everything was included in rent but he has since amended the agreement (poorly IMO) so that certain items are now due, one being the CT. The agreement was written not printed, and I am unable to find my copy. So the council have been unwilling to get involved or attempt to resolve this in any way. I have asked for nnumerous things including a meeting with the landlord where we can all inspect the original agreement. They just hide behind the DPA and makeit my issue with the landlord. One other point, the agreement is in joint names and my partner hasn't had a summons; only me. Is there anything I can do as I feel I have exhausted all avenues on this but don't want to go to court if I am just going to lose as its a waste of time (and a bit more money too). Thanks

Well Egg have finally sent me my info from the SAR but it does not contain anything relating to PPI other than a single paragraph in the loan agreement. Interestingly they have my occupation down as an entirely random job description I wouldn't have used. Would anyone be able to advise me if I should initiate my claim on the basis that this is all the information they have or chase them for the PPI documents they must have if they paid the premium on my behalf? Thanks AT

Hi All Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction on this one. I sent a CCA request to Egg in Aug 09 and got back a copy of what seems to be my agreement and a blanked out copy of the loan terms and conditions with no reference to my account or date; so I have not idea if they are relevant. Am I right in thinking that as Egg have not given me anything relating to PPI (other than small paragraph in agreement) they have not fully complied with my CCA request. Should I persue them on this or just send them a SAR to get everything else as well as I am loathed to send them money and buy them more time for the sake of it? My situation is I took out loan in Spring 04, and after being defaulted, paid off the loan in Nov 07. I have since been receiving statements and realised there is PPI on the loan. This is unusual as I was a sole director of small company and always thought I could not claim PPI so never knowingly request it. I believe I was mis-sold and am trying to get info to prove it. Thanks AT

Thanks Vex. No there was only a clause that they could go to court for the amount on the order if I failed to keep up payments. All very straight forward for the first time in this case. How are you getting on? Your thread seems quiet.

A closing post for this thread as it seems things have finally been resolved. I signed a Tomlin with NW for somewhere in the region of 20% of their original claim to be paid over 4 years with all charges taken into account. This seemed to be a good way forward and suits me. I did have to attend court as the agreement was reached too late to actually get court sign off beforehand. In and out in 5 mins. Thanks for all the help and support of the people on here.

I have finally decided on my course of action, so we will see how it goes. Not surprisingly the OD is full of unfair charges, although not the majority of the balance. I am therefore going to try and compromise with Shoos. It does mean all the amounts in the POC are incorrect. So, I am sending a letter asking for amended terms of the Tomlin; including removal of the defaults as I don't believe they are valid. If not it is off to court later this month, where I am sure I will see the judge stay the case until the unfair charges issue is resolved. If anyone can see anything glaringly wrong with this approach I would be more than grateful if you could let me know, after sitting on this for a few days it seems the most sensible way forward for me.

Hi Docman Sounds about right for the banks to hide behind whatever they can rather than admit when they are wrong. I am not 100% sure on my od situation. I assume I have a case if the charges put me in default and this will just be stayed until the OFT case is finalised. I will work out the figures over the weekend to see where I am at.

Thanks Vex. I did a lot more reasearch last night and it seems they can pursue part of the claim only, although it might be uncomfortable for them as the POC is incorrect. It seems overdrafts are a tough one to fight so it seems it may be wise for me to find the middle ground. I will look at charges on the account, plus I am thinking about the defaults on my credit file. I am pretty sure I can negotiate some movement on the terms of the Tomlin but how far I'm not sure. I'll build my case over the weekend and decide on the next steps. It seems to be better than going to court.

Hi Paul Hoping you might be able to provide a little more advice. Shoos have responded to my letter asking if they were still attending court. They have informed me that they will be going for a judgement on the overdraft only. Also enclosed is a draft Tomlin Order for a monthly repayment plan for the overdraft that they have invited me to sign and return. Can they amend their claim at this late stage? The overdraft undoubtedly has some unfair charges against it, although I did get a refund a few years ago and subsequently agreed to the account terms. Have you got any pointers on where I stand. Thanks Alex

Thanks Paul, very useful, I will use this as a basis for my defence.

Hi Paul Sure, here goes; - NW defaulted account (not sure when though as haven't seen notice) - NW started court action in June 08 - I put in defence requesting further info - July 08 - NW missed the AQ deadline - July 08 - NW requested three consecutive stays but did nothing during them - Aug, Sept and Nov. - I sent CCA req Nov 08 - Judge refused 4th stay and asked them to report to court - Dec 08 - NW then issued N244 to strike my defence out as it relied on technicalities of credit act. - Jan 09 - I sent a CPR 31.14 request - Jan 09 - Judge set court date for mid-April 09 - NW said they had provided all relevant docs and everything else could wait for disclosure. - Feb 09 - I continued to request CCA - Feb/Mar 09 - NW finally sent the letter saying they do not have loan agreement. - Mar 09 - I sent letter to NW asking them what their intentions were based on the letter they sent. - Mar 09 I hope thats enough, let me know if you need any more info. Thanks Alex

I have contacted PT but not heard back yet. I have drafted a letter to Shoos asking if NW are going to continue with the case or not. I think the best course of action is to send this off and continue with defending the case until I hear back from PT or Shoos cancel it.

Hi Vex This mornings post has bought about a dramatic change. I am now in possession of a letter from NW admitting they have no agreement and therefore are unable to enforce repayment. They will keepn reporting it to the credit reference agency though. So a major leap forward, two questions I have no though; 1) What about the court hearing? I presume they have to cancel or is this now my entire defence? 2) I presume they cannot report a default so I should follow this up next.

Hi Out for Revenge No, I think you have confused my thread with another. NW/Shoos have avoided mentioning the agreement let alone attempting to explain why they haven't provided a copy. Their N244 witness statement does not refer to an agreement; the first point they make is that funds were transferred on x date, nothing about signing an agreement, which leads me to think they really don't have a copy. The days are ticking until the court date and I will be putting together my defence next week. Hopefully this will finally flush out what paperwork they do and don't have. Any pointers or ideas anyone has would be most welcome.

Shoos finally found the time to respond to my last letter. Thats a day under a month to respond. They are now taking the line that they have not been ordered by the court to disclose the documents I have asked for. It seems only the court is going to force their hand to show or admit they dont have required docs. They also imply that I must send my evidence to them 14 days before the hearing; they are either hoping I send them my defence early or it is another error from them. They have filed a witness statement with the the N244. Does this mean they cannot produce anymore documents or amend their defence without the Judges permission? I know exactly how to respond to this letter, they seem to think they can hide behind the legal process when it suits them but ignore it when it doesn't. I'm almost looking forward to going to court.

As expected Shoos have ignored my latest letter. I assume because it doesn't come backed by some form of legislation such as CPR (as they are taking the line they have responded to this). Does anyone have any ideas on what I could include to gain a response? Is it worth pointing out that I have nothing to defend until they provide an agreement? I have also been thinking about my defence for the application hearing. As a basic outline, my points would be; 1) No agreement 2) No default notice 3) No termination notice 4) NW haven't filed AQ 5) NW only filed application after further stay was refused. What were stays for? (I think this is relevant as their claim is that I have no chance of defending claim and this action does not reflect that) 6) Points 1-4 have prevented me from being able to respond in any manner and they have ignored numerous requests for correct documentation. Can anyone add anything else? Do I need to serve a witness statement & docs 7 days before for an N244 hearing or is it just about turning up and proving I have a chance of defending the claim? Alex

Hi IMRN37, welcome to this long running saga. I sent another letter to Shoos this week asking for all of the paperwork. I guess this will be the situation until the court hearing. I would not be surprised to see this one go ignored. Could I ask peoples opinion on not using recorded/special delivery for letters. How does it stand in court if you can't prove delivery of a letter?

Hi Essemsea I think it might be helpful if you provide some information on how the charging orders were achieved. Surely there has some form of legal action already, did you contest this? I don't know if you can overturn a judgement after the event even if there is no/unenforceable credit agreement. Can anyone else help here?

Hi Vex Looks like it has gone quiet. My opinion is that you can only work with what they have given you. You should prepare/outline a secondary stance in case they actually turn up the required documents but they are running out of time. As with my case, you can only keep asking for the correct documents, correctly completed, until they can no longer submit them. As for what you should serve on the solicitors, I can only see that you need to serve your witness statement plus the statement of any others you may call (their posty perhaps!) plus copies of letters sent. These letters should be numbered and refered to in your witness statement. Perhaps you could call every person who has sent you a letter as a witness to ask how that particular request was handled and what they did to fulfil it. You must be careful in your statement though as if they have no documents they may be hoping you admit to taking out the loan/account or refer to a contractual relationship in some way. You only need to dis-prove their claim. AT

Hi Vex Thanks for response, useful as ever. They claim they have issued all documentation in the N244 application issued at the end of Dec. There is nothing in there except statements and screen prints from their antiquated looking system that doesn't even print correctly. Can anyone else offer advice on next moves?

Well Vex, you were correct. I received a letter from Shoos and I am a little surprised. I was on my way out of the door to work so didn't have a chance to go through the N244 application until now to check things out. Shoos wrote "We write further to your letter dated X. The necessary documents were filed with our application to the court dated X of which you have recieved a copy. We shall now await a hearing date from the court." Now I take that to be a full response to my 31.14 request. There is no sign of an agreement or mention of it in their application to strike out. They are trying to imply my acceptance of the loan on the basis I have never denied having a loan, had the funds transferred to my account and made repayments on the loan. They never mention the word agreement. Considering Docmans comments it seems it might be a good idea to give them nowhere to turn in the court hearing and I have just under 3 months to position this nicely if they can't produce documents. My first thought it to write to Shoos again. This time confirming the lack of any agreement and that I require a copy of one; reminding them of their duties to find documents requested or tell me what they have and will do regarding my 31.14 request. There is no DN or FD either but these can wait.

Hi Vex It was signed for on 16th Jan.

The court have provided a court date for April, so I'll wait to see what arrives from my 31.14 request. This should let me know their full position. Is there any point me putting in an application to strike out their claim now?

Hi Docman I would love to but cash flow just after xmas makes this a non-starter at the moment. They will have had their 31.14 request by now and I will be laying out my defence this weekend so its ready. I've been thinking about Shoos application and I'm interested to see what the judge says. I am tempted to write a letter in response to their N244 so the judge has my view on it. The letter would go along the lines of 1) NW failed to supply any relevant (and required) documentation to date including agreements, required notices and AQ. 2) NW requested several stays but took no action to find resolution 3) NW seem to be doing everything in their power to keep from presenting their case or allowing me to present mine. 4) I haven't been able to put up a defence as I am still waiting for required info to allow me to do this. 4) The quickest way to resolve this is to get all documents to all parties, allow me to put in defence and then have full hearing. 5) In view of the above a hearing for this application is just wasting court time. This would be pretty much my defence in a hearing but I can't help feeling Shoos shouldn't even get one. Part of me wonders if NW have elves going through their filing cabinets in the faint hope of find something they are required to keep so are just buying time. That or they hare hoping for Mr Brown to offer to pay instead.

Thanks for the reminder Vex. It was on my list to do today. As I have said previously, my local court don't seem to be overly helpful and so it proved again today. They have told me I just have to wait to hear from them and there is normally a hearing (this is the request from Shoos in the 244 application). Can I send a response to the N244 to the court? Is there any point? I will send the 31.14 request as I expect the deadline for this to have expired by the time any hearing is made. I have just been re-reading the N244 application and Shoos write "That the claimant be granted summary judgement for all or part of the claim pursuant to CPR Part 24 and/or all or part of the defence to be struck out beacuse; 1) The defendant disacloses no reasonable grounds for successfully defending this claim. 2) There is no other compelling reason as to why this case should proceed to trial. 3) The claimant seeks its costs. Should the defendant wish to rely on evidence at the hearing, then he should file such evidence at court and serve a copy on the claimant at least seven days prior to the hearing pursuant to CPR part 24.5 (1)." Surely this means Shoos must provide their evidence before the hearing too....this must include the CCA to stand any chance of success. Would it be wise to sit tight and wait for a hearing and the process that will force Shoos to fully disclose their hand or is there a strong chance this application will be refused and further drag on the process? Alex