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    • Please see my witness statement below.  Please let me know what modifications I need to apply.  I haven't included anything related to "administrative charge while paying by credit or debit card" as I wasn't sure if I should include since sign says "it may apply"   Background  1.1 Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of November 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.    Contract  2.1 No Locus Standi, I do not believe a contract exists with the landowner that gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” From PoFA (Protection of Freedoms Act) 2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-  (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or  (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44  For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.    Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed  3.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.  3.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.  3.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.  3.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.    Unfair PCN  4.1         As stipulated in Exhibit 1 (Pages 7-13) sent by DCB Legal following the defendant’s CPR request the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows £60.00 parking charge notice and will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue. The defendant puts it to the claimant a request for strict proof when the signage changed to show £100.00 parking charge as the evidence provided by DCB Legal stipulated £60.00 parking charge was indeed the parking charge at the time defendant parked and included in Exhibit 1   4.3        The Claimant did not respect PAPLOC   4.4        It is also unfair to delay litigation for so long and claim nearly four years' interest.    No Keeper Liability  5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.  5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.    5.3        The claimant did not mention parking period instead only mentioned time 20:25 which is not sufficient to qualify as a parking period.   Protection of Freedoms Act 2012  The notice must -  (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;      No Breach of Contract  6.1      No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY.  6.2        The wording “Electric Bay Abuse” is not listed on their signs nor there is any mention on the contract of any electric charging points at all let alone who can park there or use them.    Double Recovery  7.1        As well as the original £100 parking charge and £50 allowed court/legal costs, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  7.2        PoFA Schedule 4, paragraph 4(5) states that “the maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper is the amount specified in the notice to keeper”. Which in this case is £100.  7.3        The Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019 is also quite clear that the maximum amount recoverable is £100.  Government ministers and government web pages explaining the Act refer to extra charges as "a rip off".  7.4        Unless the Claimant can clearly demonstrate how these alleged additional costs have been incurred this would appear to be an attempt at double recovery.  7.5        Previous parking charge cases have found that the parking charge itself is at a level to include the costs of recovery i.e. Parking Eye Ltd vs Beavis (2015) UKSC 67 which is the authority for recovery of the parking charge itself and no more, since the sum £85 was held to already incorporate the costs of an automated private parking business model and the Supreme Court Judges held that a parking firm not in possession cannot plead any part of their case in damages. It is indisputable that an alleged “parking charge” penalty is a sum which the Supreme Court found is already inflated to more than comfortably cover all costs. The case provides a finding of fact by way of precedent, that the £85 (or up to a Trade Body ceiling of £100 depending on the parking firm) covers the costs of all the letters. Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court V Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practise continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (...) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6        In Claim numbers F0DP806M and F0DP201T, Britannia vs Crosby the courts went further in a landmark judgement in November 2019 which followed several parking charge claims being struck out in the area overseen by His Honour Judge Iain Hamilton-Douglas Hughes GC, the Designated Civil Judge for Dorset, Hampshire, Isle of Wight & Wiltshire. District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgement or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating “It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgement in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for a addi8onal sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998.  7.7        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.  7.8        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).  7.9        The Defendant is of the view that the Claimant knew, or should have known, that to claim in excess of £100 for a parking charge on private lands is disallowed under the CPRs, the Beavis case, the PoFA AND THE CRA 2015, and that relief from sanctions should be refused.    In Conclusion  8.1        I believe the Claimant has got use to intimidation tactics and has got greedy. I believe the truth of the manor is the Claimant has used bullying tactics successfully for too long and is therefore assured that innocent drivers will fall into the trap of paying rather than going through the hours it takes to defend themselves. In the process, wasting the time of the Court, the time of the Defendant and everyone else who has advised the Defendant, out of sheer decency to help have a fair hearing and see justice delivered.  8.2        I am still in disbelief that I am being heard in this court, defending myself nearly 4 years after receiving a charge through my door. I have had to spend weeks’ worth of my life studying the letter of the law in order to defend myself from this ridiculous attempt at a swindle.  8.3        I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. 
    • 'I thought why don’t we give it a try?' said student Swapnil Shrivastav, after inspiration struck during water rations.View the full article
    • honestly he/she just makes these ppc look so stupid everytime   fairplay lfi
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Did anyone see BBC24 re bailiffs today?


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I to find it difficult to understand how any human being can do a job that depends on another human being frightened, threatened, humiliated & all to often terrorized.

 

I mean what sort of person uses force to enter another persons home

 

Also I suspect the reason that many bailiffs break the law is because they like the police don't understand it. They only understand it from their prospective & not the debtor

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I to find it difficult to understand how any human being can do a job that depends on another human being frightened, threatened, humiliated & all to often terrorized.

 

I mean what sort of person uses force to enter another persons home

 

Alot of bailiff firms are not Christian ... they have a different morality altogether.

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I believe it's simpler and darker than that.

 

Stanley Milgrams experiment with human behaviour at Yale University in the 1960's where innocent people were apparently electrocuted by persons considered to be of good character, helped to explain how people will do the most dreadful things, provided they perceive that it is POLICY, the LAW, or the CORRECT THING TO DO in the view of their peers.

 

People give the responsibility for making this decision to others who they perceive to be in authority - it saves them from dealing with the moral dilemma itself.

 

It works at every level, and this very unattractive quirk of human behaviour can be seen at work within abusive families, groups of bullies at school, the workplace, the street, among mobs who are often guided by "leaders" or significant individuals whose viewpoint is respected.

 

Paradoxically, we also see it at work in the armed forces where cohesion is essential, in the greater community where the identity of state keeps our country whole. The Americans don't have children swear allegiance every morning as some sort of joke - they really mean it and by the time they're teenagers so do the kids, this believe lasts for life.

That's why 52 completely separate countries consider themselves part of a united group we call the U S of A. Or Britain to a very, which is made up of completely different countries.

 

The saying "The chief executive of any organisation, large or small, is the custodian of it's values" has never been truer. That's why your first complaint should be directed at the MP, the Chief Constable, the Council leader, the Prime Minister, etc.

 

It's how the Nazi's achieved what was thought impossible, AFAIUI Hitler was VOTED in by almost 100% of the population. They believed him.

 

So don't blame the individual bailiff for believing that what he/she does is morally right - they are told that so often that they believe it, and because the job can provide a very good living for a person who has no previous qualifications, and can simply pass the comparatively easy checks, they WANT to believe it.

 

Any person who wants to defend the indefensible can easily do so, they just re frame their view of reality until it suits their situation, editing out the bits they don't like - read any religious book you like and you'll see the same stuff at work.

 

Any bailiff who reads this post is therefore unlikely to agree. I accept that. Any comments they have to make be they good bad or hostile are OK, for all the sound reasons I've listed above.

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Any person who wants to defend the indefensible can easily do so, they just re frame their view of reality until it suits their situation, editing out the bits they don't like - read any religious book you like and you'll see the same stuff at work.

 

Just in case anyone is offended by that, please remember, everyone is entitled to a viewpoint on everything - and yes I do believe in god, just not in everything some bloke has written down, cos it suited the message of their organisation at that time.

 

If you try to do as you would be done by, you can't go far wrong.

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Watcher- can you please tell me how being a Christian or not has anything to do with the subject in question ?

It could be seen as offensive to others since it could imply that those who are not practising Christians are immoral.

I trust you will stress that this was not your meaning here.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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BAR_fight.gif

 

 

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Watcher- can you please tell me how being a Christian or not has anything to do with the subject in question ?

It could be seen as offensive to others since it could imply that those who are not practising Christians are immoral.

I trust you will stress that this was not your meaning here.

 

Martin

 

I was just pointing out that Christian beliefs differ from others (not saying one is right or the other is wrong).

 

Christians tend to follow a certain doctrine (treat others as you would like to be treated yourself etc) - and their Christian beliefs would certainly influence whether they could carry out any job which inflicted suffering on others.

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Excellent post, Chris.

 

I take it that this "abandonment" of responsibility is an indication of lack of intelligence too (ie - not thinking for yourself, and letting others tell you how to live your life?)

 

Well it's certainly an abandonment of responsibility, unfortunately intelligent folk can be every bit as weak minded as anyone else.

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The thread created to see what the Chief Police officers have to say is here.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs/128158-lets-ask-chief-constables.html

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Christians tend to follow a certain doctrine (treat others as you would like to be treated yourself etc) - and their Christian beliefs would certainly influence whether they could carry out any job which inflicted suffering on others.
Well, that's funny, because when things went really bad for us when my husband lost his job, the people behind the desk who watched me cry my heart out that I didn't even have enough money to feed the kids or heat the flat without blinking or relenting all looked as if they were (forgive the generalisation) solid WASP.

On quite a few of the programmes I have seen, most of the ones I saw knocking doors down would be at first sight classified as WASP too.

 

I think you're on very slippery ground here if you're trying to say that the Christian doctrine is steeped in a peaceful and non-confrontational approach. "treat others as you would like to be treated yourself " is also what is implied in "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth", and as for the smiting, well... ;-)

 

Chris, great post, but maybe over-idealistic, IMO. :-) I may be somewhat more cynical, but I simply believe that some people will do anything for money, and simply don't have a bit of moral fibre in them. The fact they think they hold the moral high ground may help disguise their lack of morality to themselves, but it wouldn't keep them in the job for long by itself if that was the only prop. ;-)

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WASP ???

 

I take on board what you say (and was largely refering to the people who run bailiff firms rather than individual employees), but stand my ground.

 

The fact that many people (who would claim to be Christian) do not follow entirely a Christian doctrine does not mean that the doctrine itself is wrong !

 

Let me give another (different) example. Many people believe that it is wrong to inflict cruelty on animals. If an animal has to be slaughtered it should be done in the most humane way possible. Other believe that animals should have their throats cut and be left to bleed to death - clearly a (barbaric?) slow and cruel death.

 

Should we abandon OUR principles in order not to upset those who believe otherwise?

 

Or should we stand our ground and point out that we believe others are doing wrong?

 

*By their deeds, shall ye know them*

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Alot of bailiff firms are not Christian ... they have a different morality altogether.

 

Fascinating viewpoint on morality. I'm quite interested in this 'Christian morality' concept, perhaps you could answer a few questions for me:

 

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a

pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They

claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

 

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

 

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her

period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is, how

do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

 

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Welsh, but not Irish. Can you clarify? Why can't I own the Irish?

 

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

 

6. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

 

7. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

 

8. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

 

9. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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This is all the perfect example of why i hate religion, it doesn't bring people together it divides them, any extremism is a bad bad thing.

Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

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Barracad

 

I (being a mere mortal) am not qualified to answer such detailed questions ... I suggest you consult your religious advisor !

 

I'm merely pointing out that to be a Christian MEANS following the teachings / examples of Christ (and many of us fail - but am sure we are awarded points as we have tried). Do you think Christ would have been a bailiff (even part-time) ? I doubt it.

 

Remind me again (as you are obviously much better at Biblical quotes than I am) - who was it that Christ threw out of the Temple? Wasn't it the money-lenders (and presumably that would also include ancillary professions such as debt collectors / bailiffs)?

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Chris, great post, but maybe over-idealistic, IMO. :-) I may be somewhat more cynical, but I simply believe that some people will do anything for money, and simply don't have a bit of moral fibre in them. The fact they think they hold the moral high ground may help disguise their lack of morality to themselves, but it wouldn't keep them in the job for long by itself if that was the only prop. ;-)

 

You are right, but that was a path I didn't want to go down because in the distant past I have done exactly that to pay the bills, rent, etc.:oops:

Maslo's pyramid works for everyone even though we might not care to admit it.

 

Yes, part of my post have idealistic comments, you're right about that, but don't be mistaken, the quirk of human behaviour I outlined is responsible for many of the bunfights on this an many other forums, simply because humans delude themselves every day about reality just to make what they do or say feel more palatable, and if they do it often enough, they will stop treating it as a plausible invention, and begin treating it as fact.

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This is all the perfect example of why i hate religion, it doesn't bring people together it divides them, any extremism is a bad bad thing.

 

Hi Lula

 

Not if you follow the core teachings - after all, there were ONLY 10 commandments ! It's when you try and interpret every single statement as the word of God that you get confused.

 

Forgive me if I'm starting to sound like a religious "nut" - I'm not, far from it - just pointing out that core Christian beliefs are (imho) a good thing - and the world would be a better place if we followed them.

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WASP = White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. The acronym is usually meant to describe the American part of the population that falls under that umbrella, but no reason why it can't be applied here.

 

Thank you. Well, I'm white but descended from the Vikings, and certainly NOT Protestant !

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And part of that self-delusion is the professed inability to appreciate or accept an alternative point if view.

 

Ask any football fan or person who says they hold strong religious views.

 

It's all cobblers really. Because all the religious books basically say the same thing, and they have all been written and re written to suit the writers.

And every single one is so complex that it needs a philadelphia lawyer to explain it and has so many clauses and caveats in 'em that actually you can do almost exactly what you want as long as you can find a suitable justification in the text.:rolleyes:

 

If you can't find a convenient passage, you INTERPRET one so it means what you want it to mean.

 

And when no justification at all can be found, what do most folk do?

 

They ignore it of course.:-|

 

 

 

What's wrong with good old fashioned common sense?

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Aren't the core values of the top 5 religions virtually the same though? so why all the strife? :rolleyes:

 

As Chris said, its when people try and "add" extra interpretation that the problems arise. People accept someone else's interpretation (or understanding) as if it were the word of God. The extra "dogma" "rites" etc are all superfluous.

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