Currys Fob off re SoG

[mark casey]

My mother purchaced a new tv from currys that went wrong after 9 months that they exchanged for her, which she then added some extra money to get a better spec tv.Now 13 months later this tv has a problem with a garbled picture, so I talk to customer services about this and they tell me to get an independent engineers report ( which concurs with the info i saved from an article in the guardian 25.03.06 that i saved).

When i phoned customer services they told me to take report to shop manager and get him to sort it out.

Now this is where my problem is

The manager said that as i had no extended warenty he would not repair/replace or refund the TV. I told him that under Sog I was covered re his and did not need the extended waranty as Sog covered me.

To cut long story short he phoned techGuys and they said that a power surge has destroyed the screen( without even seeing the TV) to which I replied " Very clever excuss" which did not go down very well with him ( I should have said sack the guy who told you that as no way can a surge even reach the screen, and if it could then the instructions would say use surge protection).

then I was told to go to the manufactures to get tv fixed He then gave me the telephone number of the sub contractors(Humax) of manufactures for the TV as they have no Uk office,

I phoned them and they have never heard of the compnay (Hyundai).

Now I am in the procees of dreafting letter to Currys, but I decided to phone Trading standards, They gave me some good advice and said to tell shop to train staff

I will let you know how I get on

[JonCris]

Typical of Curry's & their stores in general (PCW) I'm afraid.

 

Even though they have been warned repeatedly about their aggressive selling of extended warranties training staff to tell consumers that after 1 year the customer has no rights they continue to do it. So when you don't buy one (at extortionate cost) they think you have no recourse

 

All of their staff seem to have little understanding of the consumer laws under which the operate.

 

It's important to remember that YOUR contract is with the supplier & NOT the manufacturer. Curry's had no right to send you to them as it's they who must deal with the manufacturer not you.

 

Any legal action will be against the shop so don't get involved with the manufacturer otherwise they may try to use that against you in any defence

[ForestChav]

Well surely as the item is over six months old the burden of proof is on you to prove the fault existed at purchase. If you can prove it did then you can inisit they repair or replace the goods?

 

Do you have an engineer's report?

[mark casey]

Forestchav

The fault is not the issue it is the durability of the item that I am using in this isntance so be carefull about the six month rule the SoG states quite clearly the following

section 14 Paragraph 2B:

a) fitness for all purpose for witch the goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied

b) apperance and finish

c) freedom from minor defects,

d) safety

e) durability

 

and all thesse are covered for six years with the sales of goods act.

so after the six month then you should allways use durability to get the repair/replace or refund

any ambiguity with this can be clearified with trading standard of OFT

It was the OFT that told me I was right to follow this route and this is also the course suggested in quite a few posts on this web site

[ForestChav]

No, they are covered for a reasonable time, which is up to six years as that is the legal ceiling for claiming debts.

 

It is unreasonable for me to take my £5 kettle back to Tesco after 5 years and 11 months saying "The sale of goods act says it should last 6 years give me a new one now" without proving it was faulty, nor should I expect it to last much longer than a year or 2.

 

Basically Soga says the retailers obligation is only to fix items which are faulty when you get them or have a manufacturing fault which is inherent at purchase, and after 6 months you need to prove any allegations you are making against the item.

 

Wear and tear is also explicitly not covered.

 

The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002

Take a read of that, it might help you.

[ForestChav]

Forestchav

The fault is not the issue it is the durability of the item that I am using in this isntance so be carefull about the six month rule the SoG states quite clearly the following

section 14 Paragraph 2B:

a) fitness for all purpose for witch the goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied

b) apperance and finish

c) freedom from minor defects,

d) safety

e) durability

I'm sure SOGA doesn't refer to the occult either.

[mark casey]

I have read the Sog act I am not saying in all instances everything is coverd for six years as an ice cream would only have the life of a few mins so six years is the maximum coverd but not the maximum for all items.

a TV should last longer than 13 months and according to which a tv should last 8-10 Years . so durability is the main issue here and for that I am covered for at least 6 years

and I am only talking about this case not a kettle or anything else

a Plasma Televison .

13 months is ridduclouse and anyone who says that 13 month is an accptable life for one is clearly mad or out to gain something

[Bookworm]

Regardless, after 6 months, the onus is on you to prove that the item is not suitable as per SOGA, and the first advice you were given to get an independant report is quite correct. If you had done that in the first place, you would have been better armed when they said it was down to a power surge for starters.

 

Incidentally, the age of the TV runs from date of purchase of the FIRST TV, not the replacement, so anything that would use deadlines, whether the 6 months reverse burden or the 6 years, means that it would count as 22 months, not 13.

[ForestChav]

Actually, your rights under soga end after 6 years of purchase.

[mark casey]

bookworm

I did get an indepent report that is what stated it was screen at fault

It is an assumtion by the techguys that it was a power surge that caused problem.

no item of uk electrical goods should be able to be damaged by power surge as this is so common that it would make everything stop working if no protection was provided,( the instruction manual would tell you to use protection if it provided no protection)

I never claimed it was unsutible

What I claim is that it is not durable ie it sisnt last a reasonable length if time (22 months is not the time scale as she paid extra and got a different make of TV ) but still 22 months is not a reasonable length of time for a tv to last

[mark casey]

The Techguys did not look at the TV nor did the manager they only read the report.

the manager wrote down what he was told by tech guys and it was complete rubbish as any electrician or tv repair man will tell you

[mark casey]

also why would the OFT tell me to add a note with my letter to tell them to train thier staff beter if I have got it all wrong?

[Bookworm]

Right, didn't see the bit where you got report.

 

Ok, well, if the report doesn't mention power surge and says it's the screen which is faulty, then you're set.

 

Letter to Curry's, enclosing copy of report and giving them 14 days to sort out or you'll seek reimbursement of repair/replacement from them, throught the courts if necessary. I would also complain about manager's attitude and attempt to deny you your statutory rights under SOGA.

[mark casey]

exactly bookworm

I will draft extra letter to customer services about the manager tonight and if i can work out cut and paste on this site will put coppies of letter up

[mark casey]

here is a copy of the letters I will be sending , I got the gist of them from a post on the comet forum if i find post again I will credit to them

 

Dear Sir,

I purchased a Hyundai 42” Plasma television from your store on 28th October 2006 at a cost of £799.00. The Television has now ceased to work. I’ve had an independent TV engineer inspect the TV for the fault and he has traced it down to screen level, requiring replacement of the plasma panel costing in excess of £1000 including VAT and labour. Having owned the TV for only 13 months, I can not say I am impressed.

Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) I have a contract with yourselves.

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) states in section 14 paragraph 2B:

 

For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—

 

(a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,

(b) appearance and finish,

© freedom from minor defects,

(d) safety, and

(e) durability.

I am claiming with respect to (e) Durability.

 

The item as sold to me has not proved durable. I have owned other televisions in my house, the last one lasted almost 20 years and one of my sons has used his for over 10 years, I would expect a TV of this value to last at least a similar amount of time.

 

The action I would like you to take is simply to repair the TV to its former working self at no charge to myself.

 

I am quite happy for your engineers to take the TV away to be repaired.

 

In the event that the TV can not be repaired, I would expect a suitable replacement, taking into account the price and features of the TV.

 

I await your reply within the next 14 days.

 

Please find enclosed copies of the engineers report and copies of original receipt

 

yours faithfully

[mark casey]

the link i got most of if not just under all from is

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/comet/105671-letter-manager-ok.html

[mark casey]

would this be ok or is their anything I should leave out or add your help will appreciated esspsially spelling mistakes I didnt pick up

 

Dear Sir,

I would like to complain about the treatment of myself by one of your manager, as he tried to deny his responsibility under the supply of goods act,

He told us that as the 1 year manufactures warranty had finished that I have no recourse to a repair. This is not the case and he should be trained in the law that all retailers are obliged to uphold.

His attitude to the whole incident was very undermining trying to tell me he was trained in the Sales of good act and knows it inside out, if this is the case why did he not oblige and send the TV to be repaired?

I was told to go to the manufacture to have the TV repaired when it is the retailer who I have a contact with and his responsibility for the repair, when I asked if he had a telephone number for the manufacture he took the engineers report away and looked it up, He was quite a while and then returned telling me that he had spoken to The TechGuys and that the report indicated that the fault “the Fault is due to a faulty PDP(Screen)” meant that screen.(PDP) is where pixels burn out. Due to imbalance in the electrical supply i.e. Power surge burns out pixels. This is not what the problem was and the report would have picked this up as no mention was made of this on the report, When I asked the company that wrote the report I was told that the guy who said it was power surge fault does not know what he is talking about as there is no way for a surge to ever reach the panel. The TechGuys had not looked at the TV so how could they come up with such?

Yours faithfully

[fred_2009]

i agree that the manager fobbed you off and not simply informed you to contact customer services, legal department to get authorisation.

 

the sale of goods act is a law, an act. a store manager is not trained in law or in accountancy. therefore he cannot authorise a repair, replacement or a refund without the proper authority.

 

your sale of goods act rights are with the company. not the manger. yes he lacks the training to pass you onto the right department with the accountability to asses and remedy a solution under soga.

 

by law a resolution has to be with least inconvenience to the consumer and least costly to the company. also a investigation may be required to ensure the independant report is truly independant.

 

some advise.

 

all retail stores are simply box shifters. they have little to no legal expereince and because they do not lose any pay by kicking customers out of store, they do not care.

 

its even worse with online who can simply hang up or just not reply to emails. but thats what happens in our UK economy.

 

i would ensure the independant report is a VAT registered business. otherwise they can refuse to accept the report as being independant.

 

store staff from talking to them would love to just hand customers the world if it would shut them up. but at the cost of losing the business major amounts of money (see in particular DSGI risking leaving the FTSE100) profits are not as high as before. so companies cant just take customers word for it and do anything without authorisation from the bean counters.

 

i suggest writing to the customer services about ur issue and yes your letter looks fine. but i beleive that there needs to be some understandding of retailer store staff responsibility or, lack of..

 

managers are primarily to sort out arguments and target staff.. retail chains argos, currys, homebase and comet have no legal responsibility to act on it..

 

it is just bad customer service to fob off, not inform consumers.

 

think of it this way.. as some may think differently.. you buy something from a one man band shop. it goes wrong.. instead of going to responsible and accountable person like the managing director. you go to the 16yo stock filler and demand the world.

 

yes training is the cure to everything. but if you research DSGI and other retailers you will see the lack of profits to afford it.

 

if the UK wants to buy something cheap, then expect to pay the consequence.

[ForestChav]

All sounds pretty reasonable, you have a report, if they don't play ball SCC them.

 

I'd leave the letter about the manager for now, though that too is fine. Send it when you have a resolution.

[mark casey]

thanks Will be sending copy to customer services and shop manager

Happy christmas to everyone

[gman35]

no item of uk electrical goods should be able to be damaged by power surge as this is so common that it would make everything stop working if no protection was provided,( the instruction manual would tell you to use protection if it provided no protection)

 

Then why do surge protectors sell so well?

 

What I claim is that it is not durable ie it sisnt last a reasonable length if time (22 months is not the time scale as she paid extra and got a different make of TV ) but still 22 months is not a reasonable length of time for a tv to last

 

I agree that 22 months is still not a reasonable length of time for a TV to last however would people on this forum stop believing that 6 years is the reasonable time. 6 years is the window for which the law allows you to make a civil claim. This is a basic principle of tort law, has nothing to do with SoGA except for the fact that you can claim under SoGA within this time. This DOES NOT mean that goods should last for 6 years.

 

As a Law graduate, I had to add this as too many people are under the misconception that the 6 years is the 'guarantted' lifespan of a device. SoGA (as with all law) is a guideline, not literature and the court has the right to percieve it in any way they see fit re the "reasonable timescale" clause.

 

A lot of people here know what they are talking about and make successful court claims. However a lot of people here take the law how they want to periceve it instead of by what it actually says.

 

Sorry for the rant, i just had to jump in.

 

By the way, the way you were treated by the manager was not acceptable and you should get a replacement TV or a repair from currys.

[Bookworm]

Instead of jumping in, maybe you should have read the posts more carefully . The only person who said that he was covered for 6 years was OP, and he was corrected by most people who said precisely what you are saying, which is the time limit for a civil claim, as defined by the Limitations Act 1980.

 

There is of course a problem with items which one would expect to last more than 6 years, as if they were to fail after 6 years, but before the -say- 10 years, there is no recourse left to the buyer. :-|

 

As for surge protectors, I would have thought that clever marketing would do the trick, a bit like extended warranties, in fact. ;-)

[JonCris]

BW, just thought I'd mention, - dependant on the item & it's use 6 years could apply - but certainly not in the case of TV's or other similar items

[mark casey]

my mother got a phone call from currys shop saying they had the letter and as the 12 month gaurentee was over she has no recorse to a repair or replacement and she should instruct her lawer( as if we need one in this case) to contact head office and deal with them.

she told me yesterday , its a shame she didn't ask them to put in writing, maybee i should phone them and ask them to clarify and put it in writing as this will be something to show a judge how they missuse the SoG act to misguide everyone

[Bookworm]

Absolutely. Let's see if they're willing to put this in writing. Did she get a name?