Rogue builder stole my kitchen!

[silverain]

I am not sure exactly what to sue our builder for.

Our agreement was that he install a new kitchen for us but instead he has stolen all our kitchen cupboards doors and all our appliances at a value of over £3000 and left us with poorly installed cupboards, plumbing and electrics.

 

He has claimed to return the items once we pay him £1000.

 

The police are not getting involved as they classify it as a civil matter, the insurance won't cover it as it is not classed as a crime and hence I will have to sue him.

 

I have had to buy all the appliances again as well as the whole kitchen again (as the supplier of the kitchen units does not sell the doors separately).

 

Can I sue for the costs to replace these items or will the courts just order the builder to return the old items?

Also, because the workmanship was poor, the new builder has ripped out the work of the old builder and is starting again. Can I sue for the whole cost to pay the new builder?

[the main man]

Hi,

 

It may be wise to contact Trading Standards and Building Control at your local Council office for advice and gather as much evidence of poor workmanship as possible. All electrical work and plumbing (gas work) have to be carried out by competent persons, so if your builder has failed in these areas he could be in big trouble.

 

Did you receive a quote for the work and paid any monies to date?

[gizmo111]

I I think we need more details, on what work he was supposed to do, what he has done, what you were due to pay,what you have paid, who paid for the materials etc

[Tawnyowl]

From my exp of cowboy builders over the last 30 years and seeing their work and the look on customers faces when they have been ripped off.Take them to court

and watch their faces when you are awarded 5.00 a week for the next 10 years.Report them to trading standards and watch them carry on trading and wrecking houses.The only advice i have got is if you are having major work done is use a registered firm who is a member of a trade association.Even then it isnt 100% safe.Sometimes it is best to learn a hard lesson and take a loss because it can begin to make you ill. Hopefully you now have your kitchen in and are feeling a lot better.However please carry on with legalities if that is how you feel and the trading standards.Dont think there is any answer to the cowboy builders they have allways been there and allways will be.Reccomends or trade associations is the safest bet but not 100% guaranteed.

Suggest seeing a solicitor to give you a idea of possible costs for the actions you are thinking of. Good luck.

[silverain]

We had a detailed list of works which basically detailed the installation of new kitchen cupboards, including new plumbing and electrics. He had done part of the job and there were certain jobs that he hadn't completed such as plumbing for the water feed for the fridge, worktops weren't secured on, edging wasn't finished...

The work that he had done was really shoddy. None of the cabinets were square, they were damaged, the worktops were not straight, the wall units had been installed at different heights and too close together so that the doors couldn't open....

We had paid for all materials plus paid him £800 for labour and were due to pay him £660 on completion.

I have contacted Building Control and have had an electrical inspector out who has found 10 points where the builder has failed.

I have contacted Trading standards and they have suggested we take him to court.

[freakyleaky]

Take him to court. If you have all proposed work in writing and you can show that the work was not completed or completed in an unsafe or sub standard manner then he has no defence. As for the things he has taken, do you have proof that he has taken them?

[silverain]

Thanks for this.

Yes he has admitted taking everything (brand new fridge/freezer, washerdryer, oven,hob,dishwasher, all the kitchen cupboard doors, as well as shower screen, shower mixer, chainsaw... all still in their boxes. He is willing to return them if we pay him £1000.

We don't owe him any money because

a) he never finished the job and

b) what work he has done is substandard including his electrical work which was shockingly dangerous.

 

It is his way of trying to extort money from us and he knows the police can't do anything:evil:

[gizmo111]

Why were you having in he kitchen?

 

Joking aside if you have the receipts and you paid for them then surely it is theft? How did he manage to get that lot out of your house without you noticing?

[freakyleaky]

He sounds like a complete nightmare!

 

The thing you need is proof! If he has admitted taking the items to you alone then he may well change his mind if it gets to court.

I am sure there must be a criminal act that he has commited in doing this. The police should do something now!

 

If you have reports and photo's etc then I don't think you will have a problem in winning in court. The trouble is if he still has the items then he may well be ordered to return the items to you. You can't be sure of the condition until they are returned and you may have to sue again if he retuns them damaged.

I would try the police again. He has taken stuff that belongs to you. My understanding is that is theft!

[silverain]

For there to be a theft, you must have intent to "permanently deprive" the person of the goods. The builder is telling the police this is not his intention, even though I have shown the police a text from him threatening to sell our stuff! Apparently he hasn't, so the police can't arrest him.

 

He hired a van at about 10.30pm on a Friday night and we found our empty kitchen on Saturday morning.

 

I have all the photos and have had 7 builders quote to rectify the work and they have all said it is one of the worst kitchens they have seen.

I have left the kitchen empty for five weeks waiting for him to return all the items but have had to buy everything again now and I hope a court will understand that we can't wait until we get to court to retrieve our things.

 

Can we claim for additional interest expense on our mortgage with the delay?

[freakyleaky]

I just knew that phrase would rear it ugly head. "permanetly deprive". Utter crap in my view!

So if he had take your beds, tv, carpets etc as long as he said he was going to return them then that would be fine?

 

Now you have replaced everything then you should sue him for the money you have paid out rather than the return of the goods!

 

Where does he get the outstanding figure of £1000 from? I thought you only agreed another £660?

[gizmo111]

He hired a van at about 10.30pm on a Friday night and we found our empty kitchen on Saturday morning.

 

So he broke in during the night?

 

Can we claim for additional interest expense on our mortgage with the delay?

 

Not sure what you mean here

[SOD'EM]

I'm sorry to butt in, but just as he has hired a van you can also let him know (in writing) that you intend to charge him every day for the hire of your belongings. Have proof that he knows that you are charging him daily for the goods.

 

Give each item a separate figure, total it all up and if you have to send it then do so by recorded delivery.

 

If he still doesn't return the goods, then when he loses the battle he may also have to give you the extra money for the hire of your goods. If it works, this should give some compensation for your inconvenience.

 

If that fails, SOD'EM and kick him where it hurts. (see avatar).

[silverain]

I have proven to the police that the job wasn't finished and the work was shoddy with photos and argued that surley this proves that we do not owe him any money and that it is theft but I am wasting my time with them.

The builder has decided to round the figure up to £1000 and now is demanding more costs from us for storing our stuff!

We have it in writing from him (and signed) that the remainder was £660.

[SOD'EM]

Well in that case, you need to prove to him that you do not want your property in storage. Even a debt collector has not got the right to take your belongings without permission.

 

Make sure you have copies of any correspondence from both parties. Stay away from the police but keep a log of every time you have contacted them in the past, and their response. (get names if possible).

 

Builders can only be hurt in one way, and thats in their bank balance. I just know that someone on this site will have the right advice for you to let this (and I use the word loosely) man know, that bullying tactics will not work.

 

This could prove to be very expensive for him and the sooner he realizes that, the sooner you have your goods back.

 

Most solicitors will give you a free half hours consultation and if you have a solid case, they will advise you to proceed to prosecute. After a success in court, the builder will have to pay all your costs and fees.

 

Maybe when he realizes he is being legally prosecuted, he will finally throw in the towel. I am sure he is in the wrong and any legal guidance he has will confirm this.

 

Long winded, but worth it. Unless he is totally brainless and can't see the forest for the trees.

 

If so, I will say again. SOD'EM and kick'em where it hurts. (see avatar).

[silverain]

We have not been living at the house as we were refurbishing it. We had given the builder a key and he was easily able to take our appliances out through the front door.

I thought if it can't be classified as theft, it could be classified as burglary as you do not need an actual "break in" for it to be classed as this. They just need to be tresspassing, which is what they were doing at 10.30pm at night. However the police are not classing it as burglary either.

 

We have been delayed in moving in to the house as we have had to spend another 3 weeks ripping out his work and starting again. Not to mention the time spent before that dealing with loss adjusters from our insurer, the police and having to obtain new quotes for the work. The kitchen still isn't finished now after five weeks of when the kitchen should have been finished and I thought we can claim for the additional interest expense on our mortgage because of this?

[patdavies]

I doubt that any court would allow you the mortgage interest, as you will still own the property at the end of the mortgage.

 

You are more likely to get the additional costs of living elsewhere for 3 weeks if the lack of kitchen was the only reason preventing you from moving in.

[SOD'EM]

If you allowed a Gas man or Electricity man into your home and he stole your purse, it is still theft.

 

You gave him permission to enter your home, and nothing else. He has commited a theft that you can prove. The problem I can see you having is that you have had all his work ripped out (even if it was terrible). It is still his belongings.

 

The fact that it is your property should solve that problem. The same if someone was to park their car on your property without permission, you can have it towed away.

Your best bet is to take the free 30 minutes consultation from a solicitor. A letter from a solicitor will let him know you mean business.

 

Again I will say, if that fails SOD'EM and kick him where it hurts (see avatar)

[flappy]

If ANY electrical work was undertaken he should be either PART P registered or be qualified to 2391 status and be on an electricians register (eg NICEIC, NAPIT,ELECSA) unless he notifies your local authority personally.

 

If you have no certificate regarding any electrical work that he has done, he has committed an offence. The work is NOTIFIABLE to your local authority. You can check with your local authority that this has been done. If not, that's another offence.

 

The IEE (Institute of Electrical Engineers) would be very interested to hear about anyone not adhering to guidelines they set out as they would be breaking the law.

[silverain]

Thanks for all your support and advice. It is so frustrating that the police won't get involved.

Regarding the electrics, I have notified the local authority and they have given me another number of an organision who has carried out an PIR, (which I can use as evidence in court), however the Council said nothing about the builder committing an offence.

I assume I can sue him for:-

The costs to rectify the faulty workmanship

The costs to buy all new appliances and other items

the additional costs of living elsewhere for the 3 weeks it was delayed.

The costs in providing the electrical report.

Is that right?

[patdavies]

Thanks for all your support and advice. It is so frustrating that the police won't get involved.

Regarding the electrics, I have notified the local authority and they have given me another number of an organision who has carried out an PIR, (which I can use as evidence in court), however the Council said nothing about the builder committing an offence.

 

This is because he hasn't yet committed an offence in relation to the electrics.

[flappy]

Regarding the electrics:-

 

If the builder got an electrician in to do a PIR (periodical inspection report) only, this doesn't cover any new work done. Any new circuits should have their own ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION cert. and any additional lighting points or sockets fitted onto any existing circuits should be certified with separate MINOR WORKS certs. The electrician will only do what he has been asked to do but should (and probably did!) advise the client (your builder) as to what else should be done regarding certification.

 

Unless your builder is PART P registered he should NOT have done ANY electrical work in the kitchen. It is an offence to do so. People not adhering to PART P guidelines have already been sent to prison as a result, ignorance is no excuse.

[patdavies]

 

Unless your builder is PART P registered he should NOT

 

Nonsense,

 

The builder can do any electrical work necessary, but it must be certified as complying with Part P of the building regs. Notifiable works require inspection and certification of compliance

 

This can happen by one of three ways

 

1) The person doing the work is registered with an approved association and can therefore self-certify and notify the LA after the event.

2) The person doing the work is not registered and notifies the LA in advance of the work and pays the necessary fees. Inspection & certification is the responsibility of the LA (this is also the route for DIYers to do notifiable work)

3) The builder completes the work and gets a registered electrician to inspect/certify - this is a highly unlikely route due to the liability for other peoples work that this involves - but nonetheless remains legal.

[flappy]

This is because he hasn't yet committed an offence in relation to the electrics.

 

Incorrect i'm afraid.

Unless you are suitably qualified (PART P registered or 2391 qualified with registration) you are not allowed to do any electrical work in kitchens, bathrooms, shower rooms, garages separate from the main dwelling, exterior lighting and other places that provide a high risk for the end user.

 

All of the above works are notifiable to the local authority. If the new work in the kitchen was not notified the builder HAS committed an offence and is punishable by law.

 

See BS7671 Regulations.

[flappy]

you're out of date patdavies.