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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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HFO Services- a new DCA on the block?


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Dear Donkey B,

 

The next hearing is to be treated by the court, as the court order stated, as an application to dismiss the judgment. Upon my success, because HFO Services have failed to provide satisfactory evidence of title, I will file my cost claim prior to the hearing.

 

I am confused now - dismiss what Judgment...

 

Can you post a copy of the Order - when is the hearing

 

Do you know how to prepare a costs statement. If not I'm happy to post an example of one I've used

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Its all about assignments then -which could be the way to unpick HFO`s POC when it arrives- as advised by IGNM.

 

I had posted on the following thread- also very interesting- have a look:wink:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/149916-notice-assignment-both-parties.html

Any feeling that I`ve helped you today- then add to my reputation and click those scales!

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A deed of assignment should always be produced in court - there is an argument BUT it is only an argument that they should redact anything which identifies other individuals

 

Don't forget CPR 31.14 - it has to be produced AND also

Court of Appeal decision in Van Lyn Developments where Lord Denning said that you have a right to inspect an assignment to satisfy yourself that it is valid.

 

I've heard that HFO have argued in court that the Van Lynn case overrules the Harrison v Burke case about the correct date being required. IMHO, this isn't true. Lord Denning gave the lead judgment in both cases in the Court of Appeal and therefore both cases are equally binding. Denning MR 'distinguished' Van Lynn on the facts and then clarified what the true test should be thus:

"

I think the correct interpretation of this statute was given by Atkin J in Denney, Gasquet, and Metcalfe v Conklin ([1913] 3 KB at p 180). It is quite plain from his judgment that no formal requirements are required for a notice of assignment. It is sufficient if it brings

"to the notice of the debtor with reasonable certainty the fact that the deed does assign the debt due from the debtor so as to bind the debt in his hands and prevent him from paying the debt to the original creditor."

 

 

It seems to me to be unnecessary that it should give the date of the assignment so long as it makes it plain that there has in fact been an assignment so that the debtor knows to whom he has to pay the debt in the future. After receiving the notice, the debtor will be entitled, of course, to require a sight of the assignment so as to be satisfied that it is valid, and that the assignee can give him a good discharge. But the notice itself is good, even though it gives no date."

 

So, if this is the test and the NOA (usually from HFO we know) just states the assignee is HFO Capital Ltd, I would argue that there is no reasonable certainty. Any reasonable person on being told of the assignment of a UK credit card debt by a UK company (Barclays) to a limited company (HFO Capital Ltd) where the debt was then being collected by a UK company (HFO Services Ltd), would reasonably expect the assignee to be a UK company. If you check with Companies House, there is no listing for HFO Capital Ltd and therefore there can be no reasonable certainty that the assignee exists. The addition of HFO Capital Ltd from Ireland sometimes into the proceedings only serves to add to the uncertainlty. Any views?

Edited by Docman
typos

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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The addition of HFO Capital Ltd from Ireland sometimes into the proceedings only serves to add to the uncertainlty. Any views?

 

I'm not aware of HFO Capital Ltd (Ireland) being used as a vehicle in UK cases, whereas HFO Capital Ltd (Cayman) has been.

 

However... I wonder why they want two companies with identical names? Seems a bit odd - most organisations would want to distinguish between their group companies.

 

Now consider this. If a court claim is won by default, for example, by HFO services acting on behalf of HFO Capital, and the defendant pays up, who's to know which HFO Capital gets the money or which of the two companies HFO Services was acting on behalf of? Of course, if you defend and ask for the assignments etc you'd know which HFOC it is, but it raises some interesting possible scenarios (not that I'm suggesting anything ontoward may be going on, your honour...).

 

(And nice to hear HFO Services and its director get a dishonourable mention in the House of Commons last night - Hansard extract here, starts halfway down page

 

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmhansrd/cm090422/debtext/90422-0019.htm#09042277000160

 

read and enjoy)

Edited by DonkeyB
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I've heard that HFO have argued in court that the Van Lynn case overrules the Harrison v Burke case about the correct date being required. IMHO, this isn't true. Lord Denning gave the lead judgment in both cases in the Court of Appeal and therefore both cases are equally binding. Denning MR 'distinguished' Van Lynn on the facts and then clarified what the true test should be thus:

"

I think the correct interpretation of this statute was given by Atkin J in Denney, Gasquet, and Metcalfe v Conklin ([1913] 3 KB at p 180). It is quite plain from his judgment that no formal requirements are required for a notice of assignment. It is sufficient if it brings

 

"to the notice of the debtor with reasonable certainty the fact that the deed does assign the debt due from the debtor so as to bind the debt in his hands and prevent him from paying the debt to the original creditor."

 

 

It seems to me to be unnecessary that it should give the date of the assignment so long as it makes it plain that there has in fact been an assignment so that the debtor knows to whom he has to pay the debt in the future. After receiving the notice, the debtor will be entitled, of course, to require a sight of the assignment so as to be satisfied that it is valid, and that the assignee can give him a good discharge. But the notice itself is good, even though it gives no date."

 

 

So, if this is the test and the NOA (usually from HFO we know) just states the assignee is HFO Capital Ltd, I would argue that there is no reasonable certainty. Any reasonable person on being told of the assignment of a UK credit card debt by a UK company (Barclays) to a limited company (HFO Capital Ltd) where the debt was then being collected by a UK company (HFO Services Ltd), would reasonably expect the assignee to be a UK company. If you check with Companies House, there is no listing for HFO Capital Ltd and therefore there can be no reasonable certainty that the assignee exists. The addition of HFO Capital Ltd from Ireland sometimes into the proceedings only serves to add to the uncertainlty. Any views?

 

It just shows that they don't understand the law

 

On the date point - the law is clear you don't have to put the date of the assignment on the NoA but if you do it has to be accurate - the reasn for this is that if the date is wrong then you must be referring to another assignment - so consequently they haven't given notice at all

 

Docman - I'd be happy to stand up and argue your interpretation - it sounds OK by me

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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BB

 

I don't know if HFO Capital Ltd in Cayman has 'serious legal problems' or whether its directors have resigned. My spies tell me that it is in 'good standing', ie it has paid its fees and submitted its company return. If anyone wants to know who the directors are, I'm afraid it will cost anyone £300+. I'm not spending that!

 

HFO Capital Ltd (Ireland) is different. It is also apparently trading and details of the directors are availabe fromt the Irish Companies Registration Office on payment of a fee of about £3. Of course, I wouldn't publish Mr Harper's address in Chelsea or Mr Turnbull's address either as that would be against the CAG rules. i just point out that the information is available on public documents in Ireland.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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Bulldog, you need to moderate your last comment a bit - could you edit out anything that's possibly inflammatory, or use softer language like 'allegedly' or 'possibly'? Otherise Cagbot will be on his way over with his great clunking boots!

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Questionable posts edited

 

Please do not make potentially libelous comments - this site would be unable to defend any claim whether the statements you are making are accurate or not. Such comments are against the forum rules and will be edited and made subject to further moderation if deemed necessary.

 

We have to take a hard line to protect the forum.

 

Bumping again, as still relevant

 

;)

 

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i suppose we should write without prejudice we should be ok ?

Without Prejudice Correspondence Not Admissible in Subsequent Proceedings Unless Wholly Unconnected

Ofulue v.Bossert, HL, 11/3/09

The House of Lords held that the normal rule, that statements made in negotiations between parties to litigation with a view to settling it were inadmissible, applied even where it was invoked in relation to negotiations in earlier proceedings between the same parties. The House was not intending to make an extension to the existing rule, rather it was strongly arguable that the principles governing the admissibility in subsequent proceedings of a statement made in without prejudice negotiations to settle earlier proceedings should be the same in subsequent proceedings. In the present case, there was no basis for exempting the without prejudice offer from that rule.

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Probably not.

 

But as Mr T is the sole director of HFO Services Ltd and also the sole director of Turnbull Rutherford Ltd, the firm behind Turnbull Rutherfors Solicitors (and also the company secretary of HFO Services Ltd), it is very difficult to see how a mistake or error by either the claimant or solicitor could be argued in court. Mr T is the 'mind and managment' behiind both the claimant (HFO Services Ltd) and the solicitor representing the claimant in court.

 

OK guys, I think I have the goose in the oven on this one (if not burned to a cinder).

 

Have a look here, at the OFT's public register of Consumer Credit licences.

 

Public Register

 

If you do a search on HFO, you get three results. The HFO Services result is particularly interesting, as it includes this little extract, highlighted in yellow:

 

HFO Licence Details.jpg

 

Note what it says - Turnbull Rutherford RUNS HFO Services! I think that says it all. They are not, in any way, interdependent and anything to the contrary should not be implied in their correspondence, I believe.

 

As if we needed more proof, have a look at this person's publicly-available profile on LinkedIn:

 

Agnieszka Kaminska - LinkedIn

 

The job description suggests almost a single company entity - wonder who pays the salary!

 

Also, on the CCL site, have a look at HFO Capital Ireland. It says it's a UK-incorporated body! How come, if registered in Eire? Maybe I'm missing something. You can also view the bosses of the Cayman company on the third link, should you feel the need.

 

Any thoughts?

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Dear Docman,

 

Well done. Can we argue conflicts of interest? The solicitors acting for the claimant are one of same thing. Alistair T is the mind management, however his signature does not feature on any of the documents in my case. However, I recall the Woolf guidelines says that senior managers should sign documentation. Is there anything in the CPR that says that Alistair T should sign claim form/witness statement?

 

I am very interested to collect the information on HFO Capital Ltd Cayman Islands, being a bit thick, I could not find the link you referred to. Please help.

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Thank you. Brilliant. The people recorded as the directors resigned from HFO Service July last year. However, they are still recorded as the directors of HFO Capital Ireland as of today. No sign of Alistair T! I suspect there has been a falling out and the directors resigned both in HFO Services and HFO Capital in July 2008 which may mean Alistair T is the sole director of HFO Capital. If that is the case, the registry is incorrect and therefore not valid. What are yur views?

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I think that what we need to do is to speak to the SRA - the Solicitors Regulation Authority and see if they have a view - they're usually helpful if you ring them up. They'll usually give you a provisional observation and if they think that there is an issue they'll ask for a written complaint

 

I'm mid way through some assignments for my degree so I won't have time before next Friday

 

I'm not sure about the conflict point - but (and is a random thought) - are they therefore LIP's who can't claim the Solr costs.

 

If anyone has access to a good library - have at look at Cordery on Solicitors and the volume on Halsburys Laws that covers Solicitors.

 

Has PT got access?

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Thank you. Brilliant. The people recorded as the directors resigned from HFO Service July last year. However, they are still recorded as the directors of HFO Capital Ireland as of today. No sign of Alistair T! I suspect there has been a falling out and the directors resigned both in HFO Services and HFO Capital in July 2008 which may mean Alistair T is the sole director of HFO Capital. If that is the case, the registry is incorrect and therefore not valid. What are yur views?

 

Mr T is a director of all the companies, in fact. I imagine there was no split, just a business deal. Be careful with your speculation, Bulldog - we need to stick to facts and what's available in the public domain!

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It sounds as if there is a really complicated network of companies which need properly investigating

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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I cannot find Turnbull & Rutherford on OFT site. Please help

Sorry bulldog, I should've been a bit clearer. Go to cca search, then just type turnbull where it says company name, think it's the second box on left side. Two pages of search results come up, second page at bottom you will find HFO followed by ontrack investigations. apologies for misleading you and saying search turnbull! Hope that helps!:oops:

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