John wrote: “...your insurance may well refuse to pay out”

Indeed, John. It greatly worries us, too.

Where I am very pleased and slightly surprised that they are being so helpful. It's a good start – but pardon my pessimism, don't be surprised if attitudes change.

I need to ask you if you have recorded these conversations? Have you read our customer services guide?

Have you done anything about starting a legal action? Have you actually invited Hillside Leisure to carry out an inspection?

Where I am very pleased and slightly surprised that they are being so helpful. It's a good start – but pardon my pessimism, don't be surprised if attitudes change.

 

I need to ask you if you have recorded these conversations? Have you read our customer services guide?

 

Have you done anything about starting a legal action? Have you actually invited Hillside Leisure to carry out an inspection?

Hello BF,

Yes I have read the Customer Services Guide, thank you, and have started recording conversations. Yes, I thought it went quite smoothly with the bank but I take your point and respect your pessimism!

We haven't invited Hillside to carry out an inspection (though had wondered if we should today) and have engaged a solicitor. It feels like a bit of a see saw, trying to engage with the facts and not all the emotion we have about the whole sorry business. The holiday we had planned was with our niece who has just bought a caravan following her Mum's (our sister's) death from cancer, so it was such an important holiday, so the loss of it after all we went through was highly charged.

BF,you seemed to feel that we could do this ourselves, but I didn't feel confident enough. I might see if any of the auto engineers/experts in alarms might inspect for us here at home. I will keep you posted and thank you, again.

Just for further sharing of information, I have contacted my bank to initiate the Chargeback process. I found them very helpful but they have informed me that the faulty goods/van needs to be in the hands of the merchant and they then have 15 days to act and if they don’t, the process of obtaining the refund can be initiated. So they can’t act until the van is returned.

 

I have been fortunate to have a friend who has a garage who feels any company should have the right to inspect a faulty vehicle. But, at the same time, Hillside tried to blame us for tampering and told us to take the van to Nissan in the first place. They never wanted to see it in the first 3 weeks. The element of mistrust here is so great, yet I don’t want to appear unreasonable.

 

I have also been looking at auto engineers and expert witnesses and all sorts to strengthen our position, but I can’t help noticing another week has gone by with a brand new, unlocked campervan sitting outside. The thought of court proceedings doesn’t fill me with joy, but I am wondering if this maybe what has to happen.

 

BankFodder your advice was to tell Hillside to make an appointment to come and inspect it here at our house, but then Chargeback cannot be initiated. Another week has passed, I have done more research but I am still unsure of my next best move. Any input welcome, thank you.

I agree, I think bankfodder has given you a missguided extreme view.

Start being reasonable and work with Hillside to get the car fixed. I think it was right they asked you to take it back to fiat to make sure it wasnt a manufacturer fault, they say it isnt (as far as they know) youve bought a modified vehicle, work with Hillside to repair. Don't threaten them, be reasonable and work with them. Get it fixed and re-start your relationship with Hillstart. As soon as you STOP threatening them they'll bend overf to help you....................................

You could easily do this yourselves. It's a shame you have engaged a solicitor because you will find that there will now be an exchange of correspondence and everything will simply get delayed. Don't imagine that a solicitor is going to leap into action I don't imagine that having a solicitor on your side is going to put the willies up the other side.

You should certainly have invited them to carry out an inspection – and you should do so now. You don't seem to realise that the point of it all is not necessary to get the inspection, but to get the paper trail showing that you have been as reasonable as possible so they can't later on say that they never had an opportunity to inspect the vehicle.

If we give you advice here, you should follow it.

Your solicitor will probably not know anything about the chargeback system. It won't be in his training or in his culture.

If you really want a solicitor working for you then frankly you have done it far too early and you just simply spending money.

I hear what you say about getting the vehicle to them before activating the chargeback. The only thing that I am concerned about is that once they have the vehicle in their possession, if there is any problem with the company and they disappear, they could disappear with your vehicle and also the money. On the other hand, if a chargeback process in hand then the bank would reimburse you because you had acted on their advice – except you won't be able to prove that, because you haven't recorded the call. Your solicitor also won't advise you to record calls. In fact your solicitor will have no idea as to what the law is regarding the recording of calls and may well even discourage you.

As you have now engaged a solicitor and so you are paying money for services, I think you need to decide whether to stick with your solicitor or to allow this forum to help you – but I don't think you can do both.

Thank you. I understand what you’re saying and have learned a great deal very quickly. I will talk further to my partner.

I would suggest that you send them a letter before claim immediately. In the letter before claim you should set out what is wrong with the van, refer to the fact that you have let them know within the 30 day period, list out the events – that they have ignored you et cetera, invite them to come down and inspect the vehicle but tell them that in any event in 14 days you will be starting a claim against them in the County Court and without further notice. Tell them that you will be claiming any associated costs and also you intend to make a claim for the loss of your planned holiday and other plans.

One them also that you will be adding interest at the County Court rate of 8% to your claim.

Warn them also that as the claim will be going onto the fast track you will be claiming your costs. Tell them at the moment that you are acting in person but at some point you may decide to instruct legal professionals and that will incur further substantial costs which they will be required to pay once they lose.

I don't think there is much else you can do. If you don't take this action then you better stick with your solicitor. If you want, you can go through the chargeback process but as I have said, there is a risk that they receive the vehicle and then you lose the lot if they go belly up. This may be a remote possibility but you are talking about quite a lot of money and so I think you need to factor in as a possibility.

You came to us on the 27th. It is now about seven days later. I think it's about time you made a decision and acted.

I've just looked at their website for their terms and conditions. Here's their Twitter feed - @HillsideCampers

It says "awaiting content".

https://www.hillsideleisure.co.uk/terms-and-conditions/

Go figure.

Hillside leisure - t&Cs awaiting content.pdf

I suggest you DON'T ignore Hillsides offer to take it back and fix. What do you think a judge will look for when he reads the case, if it isnt already dismissed ? Seller agreed to fix, buyer refused to return......

I repeat start being reasonable, thats what judges look for.... They get fed up with completely unreasonable cases being put infront of them...

Its black and white to them. Who's been or being unreasonable........

I would suggest that you send them a letter before claim immediately. In the letter before claim you should set out what is wrong with the van, refer to the fact that you have let them know within the 30 day period, list out the events – that they have ignored you et cetera, invite them to come down and inspect the vehicle but tell them that in any event in 14 days you will be starting a claim against them in the County Court and without further notice. Tell them that you will be claiming any associated costs and also you intend to make a claim for the loss of your planned holiday and other plans.

 

One them also that you will be adding interest at the County Court rate of 8% to your claim.

 

Warn them also that as the claim will be going onto the fast track you will be claiming your costs. Tell them at the moment that you are acting in person but at some point you may decide to instruct legal professionals and that will incur further substantial costs which they will be required to pay once they lose.

 

I don't think there is much else you can do. If you don't take this action then you better stick with your solicitor. If you want, you can go through the chargeback process but as I have said, there is a risk that they receive the vehicle and then you lose the lot if they go belly up. This may be a remote possibility but you are talking about quite a lot of money and so I think you need to factor in as a possibility.

 

You came to us on the 27th. It is now about seven days later. I think it's about time you made a decision and acted.

They havent ignored, they've said take it to the main dealer who has diagnosed the fault is with the modification, the said modifyer has asked for it to be retured for a full repair. OP is refusing and you are saying take them to court !! Bankfodder how can you justify such misguided very bad advise ?

BankFodder, just a general query, I would be grateful for your input. Is it considered bad form to have employed a solicitor and then take things on again oneself? I regret not having found my way here earlier, but, I just wondered if it’s regarded badly in the court system.

no probably the otherway around

if cases drags on or turns out to be simple

the cost of solicitors comes in question as to if its financially worth their expense

no probably the otherway around

if cases drags on or turns out to be simple

the cost of solicitors comes in question as to if its financially worth their expense

Thank you. That’s helpful, as always.

In respect of the defects, you don't have to ascertain the cause. You only have to ascertain that the defect exists. Can they confirmed that the alarm problem exists?

 

In the case of the payments, it's a shame you didn't use credit cards because you would have more protection. I'm not sure what the chargeback rules for payments of this size by means of debit cards are.

 

Maybe someone can help

The amount was in excess of £30k so paying using a CC would not have helped as S75 would not have applied.

Lawtreader, I think you seariously need to reconsider your actions. You have been offered a full repair, I think you are being completely unreasonable, its a minor issue with and easy repair, the court will not look kindly on you. Rememeber the retailer has rights as well as you do. You cannot just stick your head in the sand and demand a refund until all channels have been exhausted. You could lose at court and have to pay their costs, which could be considerable...

I suggest you reconsider and work with them and give them the opportunity to repair, if they don't fix it correctly then sue them, work with them not against them.

The amount was in excess of £30k so paying using a CC would not have helped as S75 would not have applied.

Its already been confirmed that it was purchased using two Debit Cards...but by the way Section 75 covers "consequential losses", as well as the cost of what you bought. This covers the costs caused by the problem with your purchase.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/75A

Although irrelevant to this thread

Andy

This matter has been settled after a new head of sales talked to us, re established trust, came and inspected the vehicle and discovered the fault. What a difference when someone cares about their customers and listens. He seemed really concerned about what we had been through, wanted to work with us to put things right and I think, had he been in the job when all this started, the situation would never have escalated as it did. 

I thought Hillside were nothing but a bunch of belligerent bullies wanting to take the cash, not giving a toss about their customers or their service, but I feel quite differently now. I am so glad to report that this story has had a satisfactory conclusion. Thank you for all the information and support here.

Thank you very much indeed for bringing us up to date with this. I'm very pleased that it has been a positive outcome for you.