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    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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Excel counselling for West Brom Build Soc chasing mortgage shortfall CCJ from 2006


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Hi all,

Newby to this site,

 

approximately 1994 i handed the keys to my house to the lender,

i was stupid to do so, i know that now but "old head, young shoulders" an'all that!

 

i bought the house for £32,000 only lived there for about 3-4 years before life hit the skids.

i moved around for a few years & ended up in wales,

 

after a while i got a letter demanding approximately £14,000

i just screwed it up & filed it!

they'd sold my house for £18,000 expected me to pay the difference for the full original amount borrowed!

 

They repeatedly sent letters requesting that i go to the courthouse,

i was scared to death!

i ignored them, i was moving soon anyway!!!

 

a year or so later similar letter drops on the mat @ new place,

all in all i dodged it for years,

 

then i got a letter telling me a warrant was out for my arrest.

Time to put my hands up i thought!,

 

i rang them & was told that if i went to local courthouse i could cancel warrant.

i went and was asked a lot of questions concerning my bank accounts & had to show details of any bank accounts (cards etc) & sign some papers (no idea what)

the guy questioning me said that i could more or less just forget about it from that point onwards.

that was about 2006.

 

now im getting the same letters again,

a guy saying that he's trying to contact me concerning account #********* etc,

he comes from a company called Excel counselling according to his paperwork.

 

now, i have very little in the way of assets, i rent my home, i have a car & a motorbike

 

but, & its a biggun, i am the director of my own LTD company now, are the assets of the company in any danger from this process?

 

my company pays me the minimum wage to keep tax low etc.

so i can prove that my personal income is quite low, but can they seize money or assets from the LTD Co?

thanks!

Edited by yorick
remembered some detail
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With letters from the court & a warrant for arrest : it sounds like the lender got a CCJ.

If they hadn't : you'd have been in the clear due to the time elapsed, as mortgage shortfalls aren't enforced after 12 years, absent a CCJ.

 

A CCJ doesn't expire. It needs the permission of the court to enforce after 6 years, though.

If you've been dodging court letters : permission for the lender to enforce a CCJ, even after 10 years (from 2006), seems likely.

 

They can't go after company assets DIRECTLY.

They can affect the company though:

a) who owns the company's shares? They can go after those as an asset of yours (if need be by bankruptcy proceedings against you)

b) bankruptcy proceedings could be a powerful lever against you : you can't be a director of a company as a bankrupt, (and trying to get round that by nominating someone else as the director but controlling it through them isn't permitted, so called "shadow directorship").

 

 

" & sign some papers (no idea what)" ; as a general rule, if you don't know what you are signing, don't sign it until you understand what you are signing!

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hi Bazza s,

Im the sole owner & director of the LTD company, sounds like i may be fairly stuffed then!

it seems odd that the can check out my assets approx 10 years after the first payment default & as i had nothing worth grabbing leave me for another 10 years & take another look!!

also, the company only has equipment as assets, not money at present!

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I would not jump to any conclusions about your situation. First thing you need to get hold of, is a copy of the CCJ that was obtained, as well as details of any other court applications. Once you have that information, then come back for more advice or see a Solicitor.

 

If you have never been personally served any court document asking you to attend court about this, then i would question what you have been told. As far as i know, if they are looking at contempt of court or requesting you attend court for questioning, they have to personal serve court notice on you, by a court authorised process server. They can't just post it to an address.

 

Excel are acting for whoever owns this debt and they charge fees, which are added to the debt. Does not mean this debt is currently legally enforceable and if you ask your local county court for copies of all paperwork, then you can start to understand the exact current position. There is a process for getting copies of all documents from a court and a small fee fto cover photocopying.

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Excel counselling are a dca

Not bailiff s. Ignore them!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Not really no such time limit

Think things have well passed now

No warrant can be active either

 

And I bet they say our client on their letter too

 

And I bet the letterhead doesn't say bailiff s

 

Trying to spoof you there's some legal recourse here

I bet not

 

Can you scan the letter go PDF please

 

Bet it doesn't say will anything either phishing/fleecing attempts

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Is that right dx100uk? Does ignoring them eventually work? I think there's about three & half years till 12 year time limit!

 

There are thousands of mortgage debts being chased dating back to the 1990's and add on top those which are more recent.

 

 

In 2000 i believe the Council for Morgage Lenders made it a rule that if a repossession shortfall was not chased for 6 years, then it should be written off.

 

We don't know the exact history of this debt and was has happened over the years, hence why you need to get hold of the documents from the Court.

 

 

You would think that if they really wanted to enforce a CCJ, they would have a process server on your doorstep with an official document with a court date to attend.

 

 

The fact that they have given it to Excel to do general debt collection work on this, suggests that there is no imminent threat of anything major happening.

 

 

Perhaps more than 6 years has passed since this CCJ and they have not been able to extend any enforcement period.

They are just trying to see if they can get any money from you.

See what you can find out about the CCJ and any subsequent applications, so you know the truth about the situation.

We could do with some help from you.

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it seems that the OC wrote and got judgement on the shottfall within 6yrs

they got various warrants bt they would have ALL expired.

 

 

can we see the letter please and the name of excels client.

I would suspect it is NOT the claimant anyway

so not a chance in hell of ever enforcing anything.

 

 

we need to see the letter please in PDF

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi dx100, I'm having difficulty responding on my phone. The letter is not really up to much, I can't scan it till later, I seem to struggle to find my way. Back to this thread every time there's a reply, I'm sure it's cos I'm new to it!

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follow the upload

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 5 months later...

hi again,

sorry i disappeared,

i couldnt figure out how to convert the letter to the required format to send & then every thing seemed to have smoothed over & i heard nothing from excel again,

 

yesterday i got this letter through the door, any idea what it means?

 

i'm not sure if ive attached it correctly as i dont really now what im doing where PDF and suchlike is concerned, i downloaded something called Libre office that allows converting to different formats stc,

I know i probably come over as a technical dumbo, i mostly am! lol. my forte is hands on practical stuff.

county court notice.pdf

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they are trying the court route again but have been knocked back because they have failed to contact you first.

 

 

It is clear from the short summary of why that they have lied to the court about being unable to contact you.

 

Essentially you dont have to do anything about this as I'm sure they will be back in touch again.

 

 

You could ask the court for a copy of their application,

you may get charged for the photocopy but at least you will know what they were trying

 

Excel wont have much in the way fo rights in this matter

but if you dont defend when they take it to court you will always lose by default.

 

 

You must start taking control of your life.

Once they know that you are going to stand and fight they will most likely just run away as they have no legal rights to do anything.

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Has anyone been trying to contact you at the address the court have written to ?

 

Seems Excel or whoever represents them has told the court that they have attempted to contact you at the address and failed.

 

If they want to proceed you might have a process server turn up at your door in an attempt to deliver a letter by hand.

 

 

The process server will report that they tried and failed if you don't take the letter, so it makes no odds whether you try to hide or not.

 

 

You might as well take the letter if such a visit happens and try to deal with it.

 

 

As ericsbrother says, you might lose by default if you decide to try to avoid court actions against you.

We could do with some help from you.

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The process server is an independent listed official instructed by whoever owns or has contract to collect this debt, to basically serve documents on the debtor and to issue paperwork confirming service that would be accepted by the court.

 

The letter in October is just a field agent from Excel, not a process server that would be accepted by the court.

 

This just makes it look like Excel really don't know what they are doing. They have tried their luck in applying for alternative service and the Judge has not accepted. Why are they not willing to pay a process server.

 

Do you currently own any property assets or have savings, which would be at risk, if the claimant holding the CCJ looked to take further action ?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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simply trying to spoof you.

 

 

I take it that letter came from a court address?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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that's good then

 

 

the court are aware of their antics and are doing their job.

 

 

who's the claimant on the letter?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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No harm in posting here

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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