Hi all,

I took out a loan and topped up with them in May last year...

Yesterday morning I spotted 2 transactions on my online statement amounting to £664.42, this actually makes me £660 OVER my overdraft limit. I was thinking that Barclays would stop the payment as it's so far over my limit but it doesn't appear to be happening.

I've spoken to barclays who said the usual thing of "speak to the company"/"we cant do anything" but the amount appears to have been honoured, even though the card to which the transaction relates was cancelled due to a fraudulent transaction....

Any Ideas how I can deal with this rapidly?

Thanks guys

How was the transaction made? Direct Debit? Debit card? If the latter, what kind of card? You say it was cancelled, however, it really looks like there was a CPA on the account and the PDL has exploited the use of that.

Barclays are very well known for completely ignoring the law. Evidence of this has been in the news for the last few months.

It was a Visa Debit card.

CPA? is there any way I can get this refunded?

Ok. Visa debit card is easy. Demand to speak to the visa disputes team. You can do this through your bank or through visa itself. They can chargeback first and investigate later. http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/

Make sure to issue full complaints with the bank and all relevant agencies, and ensure they know barclays are breaking the law.

Thanks for your help so far renegade,

which agencies would you say are most relevant? I'm guessing FSA, BCCA about CFO? anyone else?

OFT and FOS. But FOS only investigate your complaint once youve exhausted barclays complaints procedure.

Hi Renegadeimp,

Thanks for the advice, I have tried to contact CFO to find out what the hell they think they are up to but the number I have is unattended and the emails keep bouncing back... (this was so that I could prove to Barclays that I had tried to contact them)

I received a letter from Barclays yesterday advising me that the payments were "guaranteed" and that they have now charged me £16 for the privilege of being £660 over my limit (due to their actions)!!! I did not, at any time, ask Barclays to guarantee these payments and I certainly didn't authorise the payments!

Barclays are still giving me the usual rubbish that, as it's a "finance" company they can't do claim back on it!

I seem to remember seeing something on the OFT website that stated that "Finance companies" like CFO weren't allowed to pull this sort of nonsense? And that banks should carry out the wishes of their customers. Think it says something along the lines of the bank should carry out a refund, but the debtor should realise that they may still be liable for the debt.

Actually, another thought is that they tried sending a company called Daniels Silverman after me, and that I should deal with them... If that is the case then CFO have no right to continue to act like this do they?

Running on empty now haven't slept since Sunday as I've been so stressed with this.

Any further advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Phil

One other thought, it appears that the payment was taken from my old card which was cancelled by the bank recently, due to a fraudulent withdrawal. Is this a case of continuous payment authority? If yes, can I claim the money back as it was claimed on a dead card?

Thanks,

Phil

How was the transaction made? Direct Debit? Debit card? If the latter, what kind of card? You say it was cancelled, however, it really looks like there was a CPA on the account and the PDL has exploited the use of that.

 

Barclays are very well known for completely ignoring the law. Evidence of this has been in the news for the last few months.

Is there anything I can do about the CPA?

Hi angry. In regards to your first post today, i have an idea of what you can do but am not 100% sure about it atm. Due to this, ive flagged the post for site admin attention as they have much more knowledge of the banking industry than i do, and more importantely your rights.

From your 2nd post, youve pretty much confirmed that it is a CPA on the account that is being processed/exploited. Have a read of http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?360613-Website-Announcement-from-Moneylender-Ltd when you get the time.

Thanks for the link, however, not sure how that is meant to explain how to deal with the CPA front...

Have just printed off the copies of my complaints to BCCA for the banks records plus all other contact attempts over the past few days. Am ready for a fight this morning, I can tell you!

A CPA is basically a note on your account that allows a merchant to process transactions on your account regardless of cancelled Direct Debits, Debit cards etc. PDL's and other creditors such as magazine subs or gyms use this method to"guarantee" payment. The word guarantee is used loosely as its not guaranteed as such, but simply a pseudo-failsafe way of them getting at your money if you try and cancel without their knowledge.

Before 2009 the debtor had to take it up with the merchant to get it cancelled, and 99% of the time they were laughed at and told no. However in 2009, a new law was passed that said you can simply write to your bank and demand the CPA is cancelled and also any transactions to that merchant can be blocked. The bank must act upon your instructions and they have no right to tell you to speak to the creditor first. If ANY money is given to those merchants after your instruction has been recieved, then the bank MUST refund your money immediately, and if the transaction incurred any overdraft charges on your account, those charges must be removed.

That is statute law. Despite what the lawbreakers at barclays may say or think.

Thanks renegade,

So this basically means that the fact that Barclays have already honoured the payment, if I cancel it this morning I've got no chance of getting it back?

Am considering calling the FSA this morning as well.

Even though the CPA reason cant really be used ( you MUST get it cancelled anyway), you are now stepping into the realm of chargebacks etc.

They cant say that because "it was a financial institution", they wont refund. Thats just a idiotic reason and wont stand up with the regulators. Perhaps it might be a good idea to contact their disputes team, and see what they say, and failing that, send a letter/email to their CEO

Hi there,

Just been to the bank and spoken to the Disputed Transaction team and guess what..... "It's a financial institution, to whom you owe money, we cant claim back..." Also, I was told that the request to terminate the CPA probably would not be honoured...

Any other ideas?

You suggested emailing the CEO, i.e marcus agius?

1. Would that achieve a speedy outcome?
   
2. Should I copy in the FSA?
   

I'm assuming it's now formal complaint time, however I'm concerned that this could take months in something that should be sorted immediately.

Thanks for your help

We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companie

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/- it works!

banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers !

This fsa guide has now been updated:

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/consumer_...ghts_guide.pdf

Here's the text:

Cancelling a regular

card payment:

When you give your credit or debit card

details to a company and authorise

them to take regular payments from

your account, such as for a gym

membership or magazine subscription,

it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’

or ‘continuous payment authority’.

These are often confused with direct

debits, but do not offer the same

guarantee if the amount or date of the

payment changes.

In most cases, regular payments can

be cancelled by telling the company

taking the payments. However, you

have the right to cancel them directly

with your bank or card issuer by telling

it that you have stopped permission for

the payments. Your bank or card issuer

must then stop them – it has no right to

insist that you agree this first with the

company taking the payments.

Be aware, though, that you will still be

responsible for paying any money that

you owe.

see: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?336569-How-to-remove-a-lender-s-continuous-payment-authority(2-Viewing)-nbsp

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/consumerinformation/product_news/banking/know_your_rights/solving/index.shtml

dx

Hi dx,

Thanks for the link, I've already written to the bank, I handed it to the Personal banker who tried to deal with me and they have date stamped it as received and are forwarding this to the appropriate department. Does the cancellation apply, even though I have an existing relationship with the company involved (i.e debt)?

I've tried the disputed transaction team and they have flatly refused to deal with my problem saying that as they are a financial organisation, Barclays cannot interfere....

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Yes. The cancellation does apply. The debt and its particulars is NO concern of the banks. The bank exists solely to manage your money and to follow your instructions. It's time they realised that.

Thanks renegade,

nice to know there's someone on my side...

am about to try the disputed transaction team again, am gonna ask for a superviser straight away, would that work?

is there any particular legal item I can quote with regards to forcing them to make a chargeback?

Yes. Just remember you are well within your rights to get a chargeback started. It is not up to your bank to put conditions on it. If they wont play ball, get names an ID's and state that you are contacting the CEO's team and FSA. Failing that you will be starting possible court action against the bank and will have the employees called as witnesses.

Believe it or not its worked several times on different banks. You might also be able to quote the Banking code, or whatever its called now.

OK, I've tried again, and they've said that under the consumer credit act, they are not permitted to get involved.... sounds like bull to me...

I'm going to email their complaints department and copy in the CEO... this is beyond a joke!

Following sent to Barclays compaints department, Copied to Marcus Agius, CEO:

Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing to complain about the complete lack of assistance provided to me by your customer service team over the past 72 hours.

S/C ****** A/c ********

Having checked my account balance on Sunday 5th August, I noticed 2 unauthorised transactions which have placed my account £660 over my agreed overdaft limit. I called the customer service 0845 number and was put through to the disputed transactions team. They informed me that I should, in the first instance, contact the company responsible for the transaction and call them back once I had further information.

I duly attempted to contact the company concerned and was unable to as the emails were returned immediately as unavailable.

I have spoken to several members of the your disputed transactions team today and have now been told that because the company is a financial institution, Barclays cannot initiate the claimback system or refund the payments. In addition, yesterday I received a letter from barclays stating that I had exceeded my overdraft and was therefore being charged £16 in charges.

I have checked my legal position and have been advised that because I have disputed the payments, Barclays should have stopped and refunded the payments immediately. In fact, I also believe that Barclays should have declined the payments immediately given that the payments were so large. I also understand that according to the Financial Services Authority Guidance for Banking customers, the following applies. Please not my comments are annotated in Bold.

"Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction. Money can only be taken from your account if you have authorised the transaction or your bank can prove you were at fault.

I did not authorise the payments

Contact your bank immediately if you notice a payment out of your account that you did not authorise. If you are sure that you did not authorise the payment you can claim a refund.

I contacted you as soon as I became aware of the problem.

However, your bank does not have to refund you if you do not tell it about the payment until 13 months or more after the date it left your account.

Not applicable."

Further, it states:

"Your bank must only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if:

it can prove you authorised the transaction – though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password, card and PIN conclusively proves you authorised a payment; or

it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently or, because you deliberately, or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction."

And Finally:

"The bank must make the refund immediately unless it has evidence that one of the above reasons applies.

Your bank may ask you to answer some questions and fill out a form confirming what has happened, but it cannot delay your refund while it waits for you to return the form. If the bank has evidence that one of the above reasons for refusing a refund applies, it may investigate before making a refund but must look into it as quickly as possible.

If your bank rejects your claim for a refund it should explain why.

The fact that the person taking these payments is a financial body is not an acceptable reponse, and would not pass tests by the regulator

If the transaction was on a credit card, the refund may not happen immediately. But the card issuer cannot charge interest or ask for repayment of the amount unless it can prove that you are liable to pay."

In addition I gave a request (attached) to a personal banker at the Bishopsgate Branch, which outlined the fact that I require the CPA for this company deleted from my account immediately. On mentioning this to your Disputed Transactions team, they stated that "it wouldn't make the blindest bit of difference as Barclays could not interfere". I understand that is in direct contravention of Regulation 55 of The Payment Services Regulations 2009:

"55.—(1) A payment transaction is to be regarded as having been authorised by the payer for the purposes of this Part only if the payer has given its consent to—

(a)the execution of the payment transaction; or .

(b)the execution of a series of payment transactions of which that payment transaction forms part. .

(2) Such consent—

(a)may be given before or, if agreed between the payer and its payment service provider, after the execution of the payment transaction; and .

(b)must be given in the form, and in accordance with the procedure, agreed between the payer and its payment service provider. .

(3) The payer may withdraw its consent to a payment transaction at any time before the point at which the payment order can no longer be revoked under regulation 67.

(4) Subject to regulation 67(3) to (5), the payer may withdraw its consent to the execution of a series of payment transactions at any time with the effect that any future payment transactions are not regarded as authorised for the purposes of this Part."

Accordingly, I therefor instruct you to:

1. Refund the unauthorised payments immediately, pending investigation.
   
2. Refund/remove the £16 charges.
   
3. Enact the cancellation of the CPA immediately.
   

I would appreciate it if this could be actioned expeditiously, preferably today. Should you wish to discuss this with me further, please do not hesitate to contact me on 07*********.

Yours,

Any Thoughts?

I'm not in a position to comment directly having no experience of disputing transactions with PDL's although I do occasionally take PDL's which is why I regularly read through this forum to ensure that I am informed - I'm not just being nosey!

I just wanted to make you aware that you have left your telephone number in your last post which should be removed for security and/or identification purposes.

Good luck with your claim against Barclays!

Cheers,

MB78

Edit: Not sure if you're about, so I have flagged your post for admin action to remove the phone number.

I'm not in a position to comment directly having no experience of disputing transactions with PDL's although I do occasionally take PDL's which is why I regularly read through this forum to ensure that I am informed - I'm not just being nosey!

 

I just wanted to make you aware that you have left your telephone number in your last post which should be removed for security and/or identification purposes.

 

Good luck with your claim against Barclays!

 

Cheers,

MB78

Thanks MB!

Best wishes!