My partner took out a personal loan with Park Motor Finance for a motor vehicle, where he could not keep up the payments.

In fact because of the situation with the limited company he had set up, no payment was made and the van was subsequently taken and sold.

The debt in question was approx 10719 and after the sale of proceeds and original deposit taken into account it left an approx balance of £5219.

Since Oct of last year we have been paying an agreed sum of £50/month without fail,

however, recently due to circumstances we wrote asking if we could for a three month period reduce this to £25 and then looking at increasing.

They contacted us to say this was unacceptable and that unless we paid either a reduced balance of £3000 immediately they were going to pursue legal action.

This being to take my partner to court and have him declared bankrupt, and to have a charge put on the property or even force the court to make us sell the property.

The property itself is already in negative equity, the mortgage is £178,000 and we have a secured loan of £18,000.

The value of the property at the moment I would say is less than £185,000, a house next door but one is at this moment up for sale, less than this.

We are going to seek advice next week,

however, because of the negative equity can they actually get the court to force a sale?

We have a 17 month old baby boy and I am now at my wits end.

All of our other creditors have an agreed payment plan and we are keeping to the payments. HELP????

Hi

I have posted a couple of threads on this issue but the issue has moved on considerably since and am now hoping that someone can help me or give me some advice.

a couple of years ago i started working for myself and i needed a van to be able to carry out my work, almost straight away the company that i was to contract too went bust and left me in a very bad position. I was unable to pay for the vehicle and it was re-posessed by the finance company. After the van was sold at an auction it left a balance of around £4000 to pay.

I was contacted by the most rudest rotweiler of a woman to collect this debt. I told her that i could not pay in one go but at a push i could pay £50 a month and review every 6 months, this was a verbal agreement, however she did put it in writing. I work in the car industry now and it has taken a big hit and my loss in salary is that bad that we are struggling to pay the mortgage and bills. We wrote to our creditors and offered a reduced payment on our debts, we even sent incoming and outgoing statements to back up our situation and to be honest most have been fantastic. We had to reduce our offer for this finance company to £25 to be able to support ourselves and we have never been treated so badly by any company. They have threatened charging orders, bancruptcy, attachment of earnings and further court action. My partner rang to make our monthly payment and the person in question was so rude and said, "give me your bank details and ill pass it to accounts because i cant be bothered with you", she then hung up. I would like nothing better than the contract to be flawed in some way to give us a bit of leverage.

1. We have a copy of the agreement but it is not possible to read it, cant make out numbers or words, basically its impossible to read.

2. There are no terms and conditions attached.

3. It is not signed by the finance company, it only has a signature from the finance agent who organised the finance but only in the witnessed box.

Do any of these issues put into question our contract.

If you are still dealing with the Finance Company as opposed to a Debt Collection agency, send them a CCA request along with £1 postal order. You will find a template letter in the "sticky" section of the Debt Action Group kindly placed there by Barracad.

Do not sign the letter and when they reply, post the details on this thread and someone will advise you what to do from there.

i have already sent them the letter and postal order and they sent back a copy of the agreement but it looks like a bad faxed copy and we cant read it, cant make out most of the words or numbers, no terms and conditions are attached and noy signed by them. What should the next step be

Write back saying that the copy is illegible, which is in breach of the Act, and ask for another copy to be sent that can be read. Also point out that top conform to the Act it should contain the Terms and Conditions that applied when you took out the loan and include a financial statement of payments made and how much is outstanding.

Point out that as they have now exceeded the 12+ 2 days legally stipulated time, they are not allowed to pursue you for the debt; issue a default nor add interest to the loan until they have fully complied with the Act.

thankyou for the advice. I shall put it in writing today and keep you informed

My partner took out a loan with finance company for a motor vehicle, where he could not keep up the payments.

He purchased the van through a broker as he had not long started working for himself and no main lenders would help him,

when he told the broker that he had only just started working for himself,

she asked him if he had his last pay statement from his old company as she would just say he was stil working for them on his application, something she said that she should not really do but made it look like she was doing him a favour.

Due to a promised contract not materialising he started to strugle badly and could not meet the payments and the van was subsequently taken and sold.

The debt in question was approx £10000 and after the sale, the proceeds and original deposit taken into account it left an approx balance of £5000.

Since Oct of last year we have been paying an agreed sum of £50/month without fail,

however, recently due to my partners work load dropping we wrote asking if we could for a short period reduce this to £25 to which they have reluctantly received two payments via our debit card.

we put this in writing and also sent an income and outgoing statement which clearly showed that we were robbing peter to pay paul.

They contacted us to say this was unacceptable and that unless we paid either a reduced balance of £3000 immediately they were going to pursue legal action.

This being to take my partner to court and have him declared bankrupt, and to have a charge put on the property or even force the court to make us sell the property.

The woman that has been dealing with this is an absolute ill manered, rude, bully and has not been helpfull in any way what so ever.

I asked for a copy of the agreement and they sent through a faxed copy that had been reduced so much that the majority of it is un-readable.

It looks like the prescribed terms are there but that is only because i can just make out the sub headings, if there only copy is that bad does this make it unenforceable.

They have now issued us with a "Money claim online" from northampton county courts.

It says that we have 14 days to reply.

What has made us angry is that in the "particulars of claim" section she has not stated that we are paying an agreed figure per month.

Obviously i need to send in our response but would appreciate some advice on what to do as it is worrying us.

Mojo....may I ask what the particulars of the claim are please ?

hi 42man

thankyou for replying. the particulars of the claim are as follows:

1. claimant © let vehicle to defendant (D) a vehicle under a regulated condition of sale agreement (the agreement) dated (13,09,05) numbered (XXXXXXX)

2. Failed to pay installments due. C therefore terminated the agreement on 13,11,05.

3. The claim for the balance due for the unpaid instalments and other sums due under the agreement, amounting t (£XXXXX) under section 69 of the county court acts 1984.

thanks

subbing

I would appreciate any advice on this if possible. We have been sent a copy of the agreement but it looks like it has been reduced and the print is too small and runs into each other so all the terms cannot be read and figures are not 100% legible. Is this grounds for unenforceability and how do i procede as i have just recieved the letter from the county courts. We have been bullied and intimidated by this company so badly and if we can get ourselves into a strong negotiating position then that would be great

UK Parliament SIs 1980-1989/1983/1551-1600/Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)

Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)/2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed

agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety

under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

They are still in default of the CCA request, which at least in theory, prohibits any enforcement of the agreemant until the default is rectified i believe, hopefully those with greater knowledge will be able to say if you can use that or not

The document HAS to be legible. If you can't read it, then its not enforceable.

Write back, until they provide a copy of the origonal agreement with your signiture that is cleary legible, then this debt is in dispute & cannot be enforced in court.

Do not let these people bully you. From now on only correspond in writing, don't speak with them on the phone.

Have they provided you with a statement, showing any charges or interest that they have added to the debt, & also proof that your payments are being used to reduce the debt. If not, you could SAR them aswell. If they did come up with the agreement, you may be able to dispute the amount.

Good Luck

Debs

State in your defence that the particulars of claim are incorrect as it does not state that enforcement action has already taken place in the return of the vehicle subject to finance on xxx date and that payments of xxx have been made since xxx date, dispute the whole amount anyway and you should have a reasonable chance of having them back down just before you go into court.

DO NOT agree to sign a Tomlin order as the court would not like that, and DO NOT let them get away with anything like 'return defence to solicitors only' return ALL paperwork from now on (including any letters they send you) to the court for consideration and copy in their solicitor.

DONT wait for paperwork from them before lodging your defence, lodge a 'holding defence' disputing the entire amount and state that part of their claims cannot be substantiated as they have not provided any clear original documentation to you on which they are relying on.

Good luck with this Mojo

Canaan

thankyou all, im so gratefull and hopefully show these kind of bullies that we wont be walked over. i will keep the thread updated of my progress and thanks again.

Hi my partner is having the same problems at the mo with this lot i was hopeing you could tell me how you got on with them

If it was a personal loan how come they took the car? you sure it was not an HP agreement. If it was a PL they acted illegally and you can sue them for the return of the vehicle.

Once you have sorted that out and it was HP, had you apid more tha a third, if you had again they can not take it without a court order, again illlegal if they did.

I would let them take you to court, but make sure you have made them an offer of reasonable payments, one that you can afford in your circumstances etc. in writing to show the judge. make a list of all of your income and outgoings etc. to show this is max you can pay and a judge will be on your side, but you only get one shot, if you default on that then the judge will not be so sympathetic next time. good luck.

Mojo - I think any court would frown upon frivilous action that Park may bring as you are offering payment and it's only for 3 months. You would probably find the court make you pay less - and I believe the charge on your house to be bull***t - they might possibly get a smail claims judgement but then dependant on circumstances they may only make you pay £5 a month - perhaps call Park's bluff and tell them if they are not willing to take your offer you will take the risk with court as long as they are prepared for the lower per month amount the judge may grant.

we requested a copy of our agreement from the finance company for our car a while back. The car was reposessed and we were sent a copy of our agreement. The agreement is obviously one that has been stored on a pc and is just unreadable, none of the figures can be made out and hardly any words can be read. We were also not sent the terms and conditions and there are over £1000 in charges. The finance company are now taking us to court through money claim on line and my question is; is the agreement unenforceable if it cannot be read and not accompanied by any terms and conditions or is it just down to which side of the bed the judge gets out of on the day.

Have a read of this thread...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/157069-court-claim-lloyds-tsb-14.html#post2105872

It's well worth a read.

Also have a search of the very long thread here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/33174-consumer-credit-act-agreements-748.html

you could look at the most recent pages here, but search for info with in the thread also.

Good luck Q. x.

They HAVE to produce the original in court. However, as you have stated, it does depend on the judge

Have a read of the thread i posted.

What if they destroyed the original, we know loads of facts and case law on all of this but as I, you and everyone should be aware these judges are on the banks side, and yes it all depends on the good Ole judge on the day.

have you seen Rossco's thread. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/132053-phoenix-recoveries-ltd-ross.html

The judge said he did not believe in credit, it was not in his religious belief. SHOCKING, but it happened.

Sorry to bring doom and gloom,

With a legal team behind you there is alot more chance of being successful. As a LIP thats a different story.

All my opinion of course but I know its shared by others, its a real shame but I think everyone should be aware of the pitfalls, Yu can glean loads by reading the loosing threads as well as reading the winning ones.

we requested a copy of our agreement from the finance company for our car a while back. The car was reposessed and we were sent a copy of our agreement. The agreement is obviously one that has been stored on a pc and is just unreadable, none of the figures can be made out and hardly any words can be read. We were also not sent the terms and conditions and there are over £1000 in charges. The finance company are now taking us to court through money claim on line and my question is; is the agreement unenforceable if it cannot be read and not accompanied by any terms and conditions or is it just down to which side of the bed the judge gets out of on the day.

Hey don't let me put you off, just be aware as i thik you are that yes it does depend on what side of bed the judge gets out of.

have you acknowledged the claim, are you defending. If so you should start a thread in the legal forum so you can get as much help as possible if you haven't done so already. If you start a thread post up the POC laving any personal bits out. Give a bit of background if you can to the claim, like how much it is, doesn't have to be exact figures.

Good luck.

Q.x.

if you have post a link to the thread here.