Dear Sir,

As a passionate motorcyclist for more years than I care to remember. I write to inform you and your readership of an issue of concern which is casting long shadows over the iconic British manufacturing name of Norton, which is now in it's latest incarnation and owned by multimillionaire Stuart Garner. This issue appears not to be an isolated case and is affecting other people. Firstly for the record, I would like to point out that I am a Norton and British engineering nut! I drive a Landrover and am lucky enough to own a 1970 Norton Commando 750 Roadster. I have owned a large number of sports bikes over the years, but the Norton has remained my pride and joy. So no one could have been more happy than me, when Stuart Garner took over Norton and promised to produce a new version of the legendary Norton Commando, which had been an American concept bike for several years.

Therefore when the opportunity arose in 2009 to order a Commando, I paid my £1,600 deposit and supported Stuart Garners vision and Norton. As the initial letters I have from Norton confirm the bikes were supposed to be ready in the second half of 2009, but this was later amended to early 2010. However, as with any new product or design, Norton hit problems and as a firm supporter I was not concerned or surprised when this date had slippage for various reasons.

In March 2010, I received a letter from Norton, signed by Stuart Garner, thanking people who had placed deposits for their continued support and not to believe rumours about Norton's financial position. Apart from asking me for the balance, this is the only communication initiated by Norton which I have received in over two years.

In November 2010, I received a phone call from Norton asking me for the said balance and I again backed the brand and put up the remaining £14,395, as the build date for my bike was imminent (weeks away).

In fact the only real Norton initiated communication I have had in over two years, is to ask me for money (which I paid in full) and the one letter from Stuart Garner apologising in March 2010, all of the rest of the communication has been initiated by me. In December 2010 my wife and I were lucky enough to have a new addition to the family and with no sign of the bike, I called Norton to check on progress. I asked if I could have my delivery in March 2011. In February and March I spoke to Chris Walker (STALKER of British Superbike fame) and I understood that Norton were under pressure getting bikes out and so I agreed to wait until April/May at the latest. All of the communications and updates were initiated by me calling Norton. The only phone call I have had from anyone at Norton is from a saleswomen asking me for money.

I would like to state that everyone I have spoken to at Norton have been extremely nice people. However none of the promises have been fulfilled and it is always left to the customer to initiate enquiries and find out what is going on. A worrying sign is that there is a very regular turn over of staff who appear to deal with sales enquiries at Norton.

In April/May 2011 after 9 failed attempts and unreturned phone calls from various individuals at Norton, I eventually spoke to the latest two chaps that they have in sales. These chaps were again very nice people, but never return customers calls. In May I was eventually told that my bike will not be ready for another two and a half months, because of problems with parts from the States. This represented another British summer without riding my Norton and I felt it was unacceptable that no one at Norton felt it was necessary to call me or other customers to inform them.

The latest two and a half month delay was not definite date and by this time I had no faith in any prediction Norton gave whatsoever. For me it was the final straw and after over two years of waiting and unreturned phone calls and missed promises I had to draw a line under this completely unacceptable level of customer service and communication. Something which should have been a complete pleasure to participate in has turned into a nightmare.

Therefore very regrettably on May 10th 2011, I asked for my money to be refunded. I did this via e-mail direct to Stuart Garner (company owner and CEO) and copied my plight to the Norton owners Club. Norton contacted me apologised promised and indeed guaranteed me my refund. To date nothing has materialised and Norton will not respond to e-mails or telephone calls. I have therefore had to seek legal advice.

Now one might be tempted to think that this is a one off and that I am one of those unreasonable types, who is only giving you only part of the story, and is always on the phone complaining .... However in a weird coincidence I moved house in October last year and my new neighbour also had a Commando on order. Sadly his experience has been EXACTLY the same as mine, with phone calls not being answered or returned and when they are, very nice people making promises which are never kept. We have also been in a very unique position and have had blatant examples of me being told different things (delay because of crank cases) and him promised (your bike will be ready in a few weeks).

Simon very recently received his bike after shouting and swearing at Norton down the phone and threatening legal action. I have also heard from the editor of Roadholder (which is the Norton Owners Club magazine), that he is aware of other such cases.

As I stated at the beginning of the letter I am a lifelong Norton fan, who has backed the brand. However I feel my loyalty, trust and patience has been totally abused by the new Norton company. They have never made any attempt to keep me or my neighbour abreast of any changes or delays and it has been up to us to attempt to find out what is going on, after promises have failed to come to fruition. I simply cannot believe that my neighbour and I are the only customers who have been treated so shoddily and am sure that if this matter is investigated you will hear from others.

Neither the bike or my promised refund of 16K has arrived and I have forwarded you my communication with Norton, so that you can see how unscrupulous they are being with their customers, in not fulfilling what they promise.

Sadly I am not a rich chap and with a 6 month old daughter I cannot afford to be 16K out of pocket with no bike to show for it. I certainly don't want other bikers to be in this situation.There is also the damage that is being inflicted on a proud British name, by such practises. Any assistance or advice would be very greatly appreciated.

With best regards

Hi Jo

Welcome to CAG

The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available.

I think you need to send them a LBA. You need to be clinical, cut out the 'I love Norton', stick to the facts, you want your money back, like yesterday. In effect they have received an interest free loan. Make sure they understand that you will pursue the matter through the courts if the money isn't returned forthwith.

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/wirral/countycourtindex.htm

I have had a similar experience to rebel11 with Norton Motorcycles. Fortunately I was able to detect the signs of mis-management before I paid in full and only lost my deposit.

Recent activity in the press shows Vince Cable endorsing a £7.5M loan guaranteed by UK taxpayers money to the company.

I ordered in November 2009 and cancelled in September 2010. I will re-order when the phone is answered promptly and efficiently and the receptionist can connect me to someone who has information about my order.

What rights do I have to reclaim my deposit ? or at least have it transferred to a new order ? I know, for example, Audi will allow no fault cancellation if they miss a delivery date by a few months.

I am more disappointed and embarrassed by Norton's state of mis-management than anything else. We have good managers in this country, however it seems that Norton has failed to hire them.

Excuses include supply problems (what start-up organisation doesn't have supply problems ? You would have to be galctically naive to think that this would not happen). Of course supply problems lead to cash flow problems and they were (up until the loan) unable to refund people.

For the record, I made 7 calls to Norton on the 6 months that followed my original delivery date of April 2010. Each month I was told that it would be made "next month". When I cancelled I received an official notice that my bike was being built next month and that I should pay the final £13,000 or so. This told me simply, that some poor sole had been bumped to accommodate me. I firmly repeated my cancellation.

My advice to any Norton purchaser is to get them to specify a period in which the bike will be delivered, after which they must agree to return your deposit. I am not sure, however, how I can be certain that the final payment will not be collected when there are still chances of further delays.

These are great bikes and could be world beaters, however Norton urgently needs some world class management to tidy up its act.

Hi david

Welcome to CAG

The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available.

This is what happens when businesses are driven by reputation alone, it's the people in the business that should be driving the business, not the name.

Hi David and other forum readers,

I totally agree with you observations on both the bikes and the customer service at Norton. I have sadly had to employ a debt collection agency to attempt to recover my 16K. I have also been put n contact with a chap who is in the same position as me, and we are contemplating a joint action against Norton. If anyone else has similar issues and would like to mount a joint action to get any monies back. Please contact me through the forum. By the way Norton have read this forum and I was offered £1000 of my own money back to sign a non disclosure agreement!! I declined and will use every possible opportunity to publicise my case until I am paid what I am owed!

People should also check out the amount of directors who have recently resigned from Norton...All public information!!!

Regards

John

Hi John,

Thanks for posting you experience with Norton Motorcycles (UK).

My experience is similar to whats been already posted.

Paid in full for a Norton 961 Sport on 06/07/2010, Norton had given me a build date w/c 19th July 2010.

The motorcylce was insured and documents sent as requested by Norton.Motorcycles (UK)......not long after I was advised of a short delivery delay. Since then, more promised and missed delivery dates and a catalogue of excuses.

To cut a long story short, I was ready to cancel order when Norton Motorcycles (UK) confirmed my motorcycle was being built and was due for delivery end of July 2011, this date would not be missed. I was given latest registration number and told send on insurance policy with new registration number. I paid out for another years insurance.

Needless to say, excuses yet again, "waiting for a few components, supplier issue". waited the few weeks but nothing.

Finally, since the latest registration number given would have been invalid at end of August 2011, decided to cancel order and ask for my money back in full.

Emailed my request to Stuart Garner,s PA, Kay Johnson and after several more email reminders a response was received " Your refund has been sanctioned and as soon as I am able your refund will be paid in full, without doubt". My response was immediately to respond to ask for a confirmed date for refund.

Since then I have had no reply's from Norton Motorcycle (UK) to my emails, recorded letters and repeated phone calls about a refund date.

Hi,

I am truely sorry to hear that you are suffering a similar experience. In the end I got a debt collection agency on it and recovered some money, but it was expensive and I suggest you get a solicitior. Ask them to make a statutory demand and then if nothing happens go for a winding up order. It will cost you £700-£800, which is better than the 3.5K I lost. Another chap who was in the same position as us did it succesfully.

Also contact Hugo at Classic Bike and Mortons publishing. They are aware of the way Norton is treating its customers and have run some decent stories. MCN were useless

Good luck and please keep me posted. If I can assist let me know

John

Hello to all forum members

Thanks John for usefull and helpfull information

Do you know the details of thr solicitor who acted on behalf of "the other chap".

Thanks

Gary

Unfortunately, I have only just discovered this site. Had I found it earlier, I would not have paid the balance at the end of July for my Norton, which was guaranteed to be delivered within 3 weeks. Exactly the same story as everyone else : no communication except when initiated by ourselves and then, you only get through to one of the ever-changing Sales Managers, who make new promises, which seem to get you nowhere; no response to registered letters ; no returned calls ; no apologies

Stuart Garner recently published an article across multiple sites explaining that Norton were getting back on track and promising that all UK clients would either have their bikes or their refunds by the end of the Year. I can categorically confirm that this is yet another broken promise and the latest Sales Manger himself has confirmed verbally that NORTON DO NOT HAVE THE CASH-FLOW to pay me back my balance.

Has anyone had any recent success with this company ?

We have the same experience unfortunately we are in NZ so communications has been through email, letter and one phone call that turned out to be total lies. the saga started Sept 2010 when a deposited was requested, bike available within 8 weeks, then of course the lies started with regards to delays, finally Dec 23rd full payment requested bike available late January 2010, one year later no bike and no return of the total amount requested August 2010. What amazes me is the PR machine this guy has, all the write up,s etc but in the mean time fraud is being committed. Doesn't the uk have laws to stop this, especially given the loan from the uk government. We have approached the uk consulate trade division in NZ but no response yet

Welcome Lchap, you're a long way from home.

Why not try a direct contact with our Dr Vince Cable MP – Secretary of State for Business. He is addressed as Dr Cable and his email address is - [email protected]

He is also the President of the Board of Trade.

Let us know what happens.

I am glad i found this site as now i know what to do to get my money back from norton motorcycles, I my self order a cafe racer and got ask to pay in full over 12 months ago because i was promise my bike in 3 weeks time, well guess what still no bike, ive phoned every week asking for updates and keep getting fob of with problems they keep having from suppliers they are waiting for the cranks and gaskets to come over from the usa to build your engine sir?? blar blar (I got told it was a british bike apart from the ohlins and the brembos!!!) then they were having porous casting problems and I heard on a norton website customers were having oil leaking problems, same as the old nortons then!!!!

A friend of mine knows somebody who used to work there early last year and says the staff turnover is really high because they cant put up with all the crap from the boss stuart telling his staff to lie to suppliers when ordering parts, lie to us the paying customers to get the money of us asap so they can buy parts to build the bikes, plus this is the best bit to -- [edited] put on brand new bikes to get them out the doors!!!! sounds like a major cash flow problem to me

so if your lucky enough to get your bike you might have second hand parts on it!!!

me and the wife have decided we should get our money back and not take the chance with getting a bike because of all the problems and reliabilty problems on the bike.

let us know what vince cable says lchap

regards

Hello Simon2011,

I was in similar position to yourself (see earlier posting) regarding cancellation of Norton motorcycle order and request for refund.

Since Norton Motorcycles (UK) refused to respond to my communications when asked to confirm a definite date for a refund, legal action was taken against Norton Motorcycles (UK) to recover my money.

The good news, the money due was refunded, but the process of money recovery lasted approx. 3 months. I can recommend the firm of Solicitors who acted on my behalf , Beswicks based in Stoke on Trent and namely Richard Anderson who is head of Debt recovery . Richard was a pleasure to deal with and delivered his services in a friendly and efficient manner.

Hopefully this information will be usefull to yourself and others who are in dispute with Norton Motorcyles (UK) regarding cancellation of existing order and request for full refund of .money paid.

mac_two

Dear all,

I have only just found this site and I am very disappointed to find that I am not the only person to have challenges with Norton.

I won't bore you with all the details but the following summary will be familiar to many of you that have already posted on this subject:

• 5 November 2010: Confirmation that my bike will be built w/c 22 November 2010 and requesting for the balance to be paid.
  
• 9 November 2010: Telephone conversation with Chris Walker confirming that I wish to wait for the dual seat version; homologation anticipated within 3 months; also confirmed various extras including USD forks, sports silencers and carbon fibre wheels; bike to be packed for shipping to Thailand (my home base).
  
• 29 November 2010: Confirmation received from Norton that my payment has been received by them.
  
• 6 June 2011: Email received from Norton to tell me that they were hoping to build dual seat bikes "this month" but delays in the delivery of parts will delay the build until mid to late August.
  
• 25 June 2011: I confirm cancellation of the order due to unacceptable delays.
  
• 1 September 2011: Apologies received by email from Norton's Sales Manager for the delay; "I have chased accounts this morning for you and will let you know asap."
  
• Many other emails sent after this and numerous responses which appeared to be aimed at customers rather than creditors, excusing late delivery due to supplier problems and ignoring the fact that I wanted money and not a motorcycle.
  
• 8 January 2012: I send an email to Norton to explain that, if my monies are not returned by 20 January, I will instruct my solicitor to commence winding up proceedings of Norton Mlotorcycles.
  

Norton has not repaid my money and I have now instructed my solicitor to commence winding up proceedings.

I have also received a few emails which shouldn't have been addressed to me, including an email from a Chinese bearing supplier chasing payment for $400: on the basis of the emails copied to me, this was not dealt with efficiently.

I did not order this motorcycle with the intention of doing anything other than buying a Norton Commando: unfortunately, I now see no other option than legal action.

Hi - sorry to read another good person taken in by these experts - it is really sad when genuine people are betrayed like this.

We did email Vince as suggested, as well as the British trade division of the British Goverment in NZ. We had an automatic reply back fromVince's email stating the email address is for constituents only with an alternative address for his trade portfolio - have not as yet had a reply, don't expect we will given our location down under.

The really horrible side to this is I am a trustee of the person who is purchasing the bike and got involved because his wife, who has subsequently died, wanted her husband to purchase the bike because of her husbands love of motorbikes, hence my involvement. This whole episode has been very very stressful for him.

Good morning Lchap, (well it is here). I am going to pm you my email address, would you forward that email to me because I'm not letting them poo poo this with that sort of dismissive response.

If they think your far enough away not to be bothered with then they have another think coming.

Dear all,

I have only just found this site and I am very disappointed to find that I am not the only person to have challenges with Norton.

 

 

I won't bore you with all the details but the following summary will be familiar to many of you that have already posted on this subject:

• 5 November 2010: Confirmation that my bike will be built w/c 22 November 2010 and requesting for the balance to be paid.
  
• 9 November 2010: Telephone conversation with Chris Walker confirming that I wish to wait for the dual seat version; homologation anticipated within 3 months; also confirmed various extras including USD forks, sports silencers and carbon fibre wheels; bike to be packed for shipping to Thailand (my home base).
  
• 29 November 2010: Confirmation received from Norton that my payment has been received by them.
  
• 6 June 2011: Email received from Norton to tell me that they were hoping to build dual seat bikes "this month" but delays in the delivery of parts will delay the build until mid to late August.
  
• 25 June 2011: I confirm cancellation of the order due to unacceptable delays.
  
• 1 September 2011: Apologies received by email from Norton's Sales Manager for the delay; "I have chased accounts this morning for you and will let you know asap."
  
• Many other emails sent after this and numerous responses which appeared to be aimed at customers rather than creditors, excusing late delivery due to supplier problems and ignoring the fact that I wanted money and not a motorcycle.
  
• 8 January 2012: I send an email to Norton to explain that, if my monies are not returned by 20 January, I will instruct my solicitor to commence winding up proceedings of Norton Mlotorcycles.
  

Norton has not repaid my money and I have now instructed my solicitor to commence winding up proceedings.

 

I have also received a few emails which shouldn't have been addressed to me, including an email from a Chinese bearing supplier chasing payment for $400: on the basis of the emails copied to me, this was not dealt with efficiently.

 

I did not order this motorcycle with the intention of doing anything other than buying a Norton Commando: unfortunately, I now see no other option than legal action.

please copy and paste the emails i wasnt aware of chinese bearings being used!!! not good at all. and $400 shouldnt be alot to a company like norton?? somethink is not right there.... i hope i get my money back before it goes under!!!!!

Emails re Chinese Bearings:

01 December 2011

To: Purchaser at Norton Motorcycles

From: Tommy Hua, Wuxi Guangqiang Bearing Trade Co., Ltd

Subject: some important about the money

Dear XXXX

There's some problems inthe money of first 200 bearings because my boss checked the bank here, and the $400 dodn't arrive here.

Can you help me to check your bank to see if the money return to you by the bank or give me the copy of the bank slip.

Regards!

Tommy Hua

Wuxi Guangqiang Bearing Trade Co.,Ltd

01 December 2011

To: Norton Accountant

From: Purchaser at Norton Motorcycles

Subject: Re: some important about the money

Morning,

Can you please check if these people have been paid?

Thank you,

02 December 2011

To: Purchaser at Norton Motorcycles

From: Norton Accountant

Subject: Re: some important about the money

As discussed if you forward me the details I will make the payment

Thanks

The email of 2nd December is the one which was copied to me with the other two emails attached.

I assumed that the accountant had received my email address from an internal communication in Norton concerning my refund and accidentally forwarded the wrong email to me.

Hi - we as yet haven't had any success with Norton - has anyone else?

2 years - no bike !

my story is the same , ordered in feb 2010 , asked to pay cos its ready after a few months , then goes quiet , then lies after lies .

Lies from Andy , Hayden , Craig , Kay , and Chris - not to mention Stuart Garner , who even send me his written promise (lied) .

So i'm sueing them for my money back (after all they've had it in full fot 18 months ! ), using Beswicks also .

I waited and waited , but at the 2 year mark i had to draw the line .

What a pity ,i'm a big Norton Fan - just not this factory - the old one (bracebridge).

Steve .

There will be many many more find themselves in the same position as all of the above, these people are just out to get your money with the promise of an iminent bike, it's all crap what ever you do, DO NOT PAY for your bike until you recieve it, cos if you pay it will NEVER arrive and a its a long hard struggle to get your money back.

Fact is they cannot make bikes because they have NO money, the only money they do have is that they get off you in full payment for the bike that will not arrive, They will only contact you to take your money.

A disgrace to the Norton name, these people need stopping.

Hi - we as yet haven't had any success with Norton - has anyone else?

Hi Lchap - I recently got my money refunded after issuing a statutory demand. This seems to be the only way to go......Sad that a company flying the british flag is so inherently dishonest. Incidentally, Vince Cable didn't bother responding to any of my communications but I guess that is the UK now : Disappointing to the core starting with the government ! I collect my new Harley next week - Cant wait having missed last summer's biking thanks to Norton. Have never had any problems with Harley ...just fun, friendliness and HONESTY . How refreshing !

Hi all,

the same thing for me, living in france, ordered my bike on december 2009, fully paid on august 2010.... and no bike,

I ask for my money first of february and all they said is : we will refund you ASAP ...

Hi moorhen64

I'm agree with you I ride an HD too

2 years - no bike !

my story is the same , ordered in feb 2010 , asked to pay cos its ready after a few months , then goes quiet , then lies after lies .

Lies from Andy , Hayden , Craig , Kay , and Chris - not to mention Stuart Garner , who even send me his written promise (lied) .

So i'm sueing them for my money back (after all they've had it in full fot 18 months ! ), using Beswicks also .

I waited and waited , but at the 2 year mark i had to draw the line .

What a pity ,i'm a big Norton Fan - just not this factory - the old one (bracebridge).

Steve .

Hi Steve, What number were you in the queue? I'm paid up and in the queue and have been waiting a long time but not as long as you! Wish I'd seen these complaints before

Bev