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    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
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insurer won't pay for lost ring, please help


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Hi, i am very upset having lost my engagement ring :(. The loss adjuster has just visited me and said the only problem he can forsee is the ring not being insured as it was purchased in the USA in 2005 and we don't have proof of having declared it at customs upon bringing it into the UK. He says there is statute / case law on this, but couldn't give me the details and I have google searched to no avail:confused:.

 

Obviously Esure have accepted my premiums for this ring and have the valuation as proof of its existence and value, i have checked their policy and scrutinised their documentation but nowhere does it mention jewellery being bought abroad. I followed their procedure to the letter i.e. it is insured for accidental loss / damage and is a specified item on the policy.

 

Can anyone please help??

Edited by missy100
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Wait until you get a reply from the insurers, I've never heard of an insurer refusing to pay out on something that was purchased abroad that hadn't been subject to UK import taxes.

 

I'd expect the insurer to deal with the claim, so I think you are worrying over nothing

 

Mossy

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I hope so thank you, I've been ill since losing it and now feel worse but yes, I should wait and see. He was very certain though despite not being able to quote the caselaw he referred to.

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I haven't heard of such a case(s) either. I have been racking my brain trying to see where the claims inspector is trying to go with this and the only thing I think he might be trying to suggest is under a principle called ex turpi causa non oritur damnum (of which there are plenty of cases).

 

This is where a claim is made by the Claimant, but the claim is founded on an illegality i.e. in your case, claiming for a ring bought in the USA but no excise duty paid ( I am not saying this is what they will state or plead against you -just a thought).

 

However, in order to repudiate your claim, they would have to, in essence, plead that you had committed a number of illegal acts, which are serious allegations to bring and can't imagine a claims handler making such allegations due to the ramifications of a counter claim for defamation.

 

Personally I think the claims inspector is talking rubbish.

 

I would do what Mossycat says and just see what your insurers say and wouldn't worry too much. If they come back to you with any sort of rubbish then let us know what they say.

Edited by Endymion
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi, hadn't heard anything from loss adjuster so enquired where claim was up to and now have received a letter advising i am to have a second visit from a loss adjuster, does anyone know whether this is normal or not and what it would entail? I am having to take time off work and they are asking me to have the same information ready that I provided to the first loss adjuster, thank you.

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Hi, hadn't heard anything from loss adjuster so enquired where claim was up to and now have received a letter advising i am to have a second visit from a loss adjuster, does anyone know whether this is normal or not and what it would entail? I am having to take time off work and they are asking me to have the same information ready that I provided to the first loss adjuster, thank you.

 

This is a bit unusual but I have known it to happen before for various reasons, you should press your insurer for an explanation as to why another adjusters report is required.

 

I have never heard of an insurer making exclusions for items purchased abroad. Did you have the ring specifically insured? Some insurers insist that higher value items are added to the policy on top of normal cover. They may refuse to cover an item, or apply a ceiling to the settlement, if no additional cover existed.

 

NOTE** The original loss adjuster was talking out of turn, and more than likely talking nonsense too. He should not be discussing matters with you as he has no authority to settle your claim or otherwise... his job is to provide an assessment for the insurers consideration.

Edited by Itokuzu
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Don't be concerned about a second visit. There are a lot of fraudulent claims being made, probably down to the economic downturn, so Insurers are being extra cautious before they look to settle claims.

 

It could be that they are testing you, to see how you react. I have known in the past for some claimants to suddenly drop a claim, when a bit of pressure is applied.

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi, thanks for your replies, the ring is insured separately on the policy and they are only dealing with the claim when i prompt them - it seems like they are trying to get out of paying for it. I was just confused about a second adjusters visit as there is nothing more i could add to the first visit, the loss adjusters are Cunningham Lindsay if this makes any difference or anyone has had dealings with them? I am very upset as it makes me feel that insurance is not worth the paper its written on when you need it, but they're quite happy to accept premiums for the pleasure! Plus it's now 2 months since i lost the ring and am unable to get a replacement! I don't even think they have supplied the first report to the insurance company and am considering requesting a copy of it........

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Your claim is genuine so you have nothing to worry about with regard the second visit. I know Cunningham Lindsay very well. Some of the biggest insurers in the country sub contract loss adjusting work to them. They turn over huge volumes. They have probably just lost the paperwork! Loss adjusters also sometimes conduct a second visit at the insurers request just to ensure the details provided the second time are comparable to the first and also, bizarrely enough, sometimes even just to provide an opinion to the insurer as to whether you look like you could have afforded the ring in the first place. More often that not though its just because they made a pigs ear of the first report!

 

It sounds like the first loss adjusters comments have unsettled you but as I said early he has no authority to comment at all. If as you say the ring is specifically insured and cover is in order they have to pay the claim. It should just boil down to negotiating a settlement figure.

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  • 1 year later...

Hi There,

 

Did you ever get this sorted with Cunningham Lindsay? I am going through the same thing with them. They have been a nightmare and always appear to be trying to avoid settling the claim. They really are just that... a company trying to adjust the loss down for the Insurer but they have pulled this Customs Tactic on me even after they have approved the claim. It has been 9 months of struggling with them. I have just contacted the Ombudsman Service but would really like to know what happened in your case? What was the outcome after you could not provide the Customs Receipt?

 

Kind Regards

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Hello there and welcome to CAG. Missy100 hasn't been here since last year, so you may or may not receive a reply.

 

It might be better to start your own thread and tell us a bit more if you can, so the guys can advise you.

 

My best, HB

 

 

Thanks HB, well my story is pretty much the same as this except it's been going on for 9 months and the insurance company approved the claim and offered an insulting amount for half the value of the ring even though their own jewellers could not source and remake the ring with a higher budget.

 

I pushed back and it was going on for sometime until recently they came out with this new customs tactic. It has been stressing me out beyond belief as I put everything I had into my fiance's engagement before she was mugged.

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Just keep going with the complaint. You may have to wait for the FOS to make a ruling, which can take many months. There are lots of jewellery related complaints being made at the moment, as highlighted on a recent consumer programme.

We could do with some help from you.

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 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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