Lloyds TSB Mastercard

[N.P]

Evening all,

 

Right, another update today.

 

Again from them ding dongs at Debt Managers.

 

Looks like I`m going to have to respond to this one, just to make sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I`m thinking along the lines of sending the letter in Post 365, just changing their name and address, of course.

 

Does anyone have a copy of the `I am surprised this account has been passed to you etc etc etc` letter at hand? I`d like to edit a line or two from it to use with my Post 365 letter.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

N.P

[Curlyben]

Hey NP, still playing around with these "people" I see.

 

So you after my , now famous, bemused letter

 

Here you go:

 

Edit as needed

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the **original creditor/DCA** and has been since DATE 2007.

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My last letter from **original creditor/DCA** was DATE and intimated that my complaint would be

resolved on **DATE**, this obviously hasn’t happened.

As **original creditor/DCA** are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, OFT Collection Guidelines, *Subject Access request and have also breached *s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the **original creditor/DCA** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as **New DCA** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If **New DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

*- Delete as needed

Enjoy

[N.P]

Hi CB,

 

Thanks for that mate, glad your still around.

 

Yep, the `bemused` letter, that`s what I meant.

 

Do you think I should edit it to my Post 365 letter or just use your `shorter` version?

 

Thanks again.

 

 

 

N.P

[Curlyben]

Should be more than enough for now, but if you are feeling really evil hit them with this:

 

Account In Dispute

 

Dear xxxx,

 

I acknowledge receipt of your notice of intended legal action sent by your company on 3rd July 2007 which was received on 6th July 2007.

Please be aware that any proceedings will be extremely vigorously defended and that a counterclaim will be made against ** DCA **. I am unable to respond further at this time, since you have given me inadequate information to investigate the claim. Please note that under the Overriding Objectives, you have a duty to act reasonably at all times.

 

As you are aware, under the pre-action protocols of the Civil Procedure Rules, your letter before action should have included the following information:

4.3 The claimant's letter should —

(a) give sufficient concise details to enable the recipient to understand and investigate the claim without extensive further information;

(b) enclose copies of the essential documents which the claimant relies on;

© ask for a prompt acknowledgement of the letter, followed by a full written response within a reasonable stated period;

(For many claims, a normal reasonable period for a full response may be one month.)

(d) state whether court proceedings will be issued if the full response is not received within the stated period;

(e) identify and ask for copies of any essential documents, not in his possession, which the claimant wishes to see;

(f) state (if this is so) that the claimant wishes to enter into mediation or another alternative method of dispute resolution; and

(g) draw attention to the court's powers to impose sanctions for failure to comply with this practice direction and, if the recipient is likely to be unrepresented, enclose a copy of this practice direction.

I note that your letter failed to enclose copies of the essential documents upon which you will seek to rely, failed to ask for acknowledgement of the letter, failed to ask for a written response within a reasonable period of time, and did not draw attention to the courts powers

to force all parties to comply with the practice direction.

I intend to provide you with a full written response, but as yet I have not got adequate information to investigate your claim.

To enable me to investigate this claim I require specific information regarding the account to be provided forthwith. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

If you fail to disclose this information, I may apply to the court under Part 18 and part 31 of the civil procedure rules.

I will be unable to respond to your claim without this information, and by failing to supply it before starting legal action you would breach the overriding objective of the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

Request for disclosure;

I request that you send me information vital to investigating your claims, including:

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to it the account.

b. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor.

c. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual

intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ** CREDITOR **.

d. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

e. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

f. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

g. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

h. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

i. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

j. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

3. Any other documents you will seek to rely upon in court.

4. A copy of your complaints procedure, as required by the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

5. Clarification of the date you acquired the debt, what organisation you acquired it from, their registered office, their company number (if any) and what legal title they had to this debt, and what credit license number they had at the time that the debt was purchased or entered into.

 

Please note, I will respond to your claim in full within 14 days of your providing this information. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, or if you start proceedings without furnishing this information, it will be reported to the Court that you are denying me the opportunity to settle this matter amicably.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

Yours Faithfully,

 

Yes I'm still around, just more underground

 

I'll always come running if called.

[N.P]

Hah hah, where you do get these?

 

I might add part of the bemused letter to that one.

 

I`ll edit it/them tomorrow and post a finished version up for you all to check out before I send it off on Monday.

 

Thanks again Curly

 

Ciao for now

 

 

 

N.P

[Curlyben]

NP, you forget I have a VAST and extensive library.

 

L-space is a very weird place indeed

[citizenB]

Hiya NP.

 

I used Curlyben's letter as at #379 some while ago. It was sent to 1st Credit who were supposedly acting on behalf of LTSB. My reply was a letter from LTSB asking me to complete a form (including signature) and the fee of £10.00 as it was their policy to charge for Data requests !!!

[spiritgirl59]

Hi N.P.

 

Just popping in to say hello again, and that I am still watching and reading your thread with interest

 

Hello again to curlben whose advise is invaluable x

 

As for Debt Managers, note the word "may" in their latest threat-o-gram to you.

 

Well done, keep up the good work at seeing them off!

 

Love SG x

[N.P]

Hiya NP.

 

I used Curlyben's letter as at #379 some while ago. It was sent to 1st Credit who were supposedly acting on behalf of LTSB. My reply was a letter from LTSB asking me to complete a form (including signature) and the fee of £10.00 as it was their policy to charge for Data requests !!!

 

Hi citizenB,

 

Thanks for the post. I`ve decided to send them curlys letter in Post 377. Like he says, it`s more than enough for the time being. I can`t see the point in wasting ink on these empty heads. I`m just going to use cheapo photo copying paper instead of my posh, expensive watermarked sheets

 

Hi N.P.

 

Just popping in to say hello again, and that I am still watching and reading your thread with interest

 

Hello again to curlben whose advise is invaluable x

 

As for Debt Managers, note the word "may" in their latest threat-o-gram to you.

 

Well done, keep up the good work at seeing them off!

 

Love SG x

 

Hi SG,

 

Good to here from you again girl. Yeah, I noticed their wording read `may`, that is why I ignored their first letter, heh heh.

 

I can do with seeing them off for a few weeks until my wages equal out a bit more. My parents were nice enough to buy me a car last week and I needed to sort out the tax and insurance, which as a first time driver was expensive. So I could do with a few more pays to catch up, if you know what I mean.

 

Beleive it or not, I actually used the monies from my Argos Account (dodgy CCA) to pay for lessons :grin: This has gone quiet for a few weeks now, I wonder whats going on with that.

 

Thanks again girls, and also to our pal CurlyBen, the curliest of ALL Bens

 

Ciao for now.

 

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Right, while I`m trying to suss out why my damn printer is not printing, I`m thinking of sending this.

 

It`s a slightly edited version of curlys `bemused` letter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

 

DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER

 

 

 

 

Dear Sirs, 29TH September 2008

 

 

 

Account Number: whatever.

 

 

Re: My request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute.

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the Lloyds TSB and has been since October 2007. Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My last letter from Lloyds TSB was 16th September and stated that my complaint would be passed to their Legal Team, who specialise in the concerns I have raised. This obviously hasn’t happened. It would seem this account has simply been passed to a `Debt Collection Agency`.

 

As Lloyds TSB are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to Lloyds TSB for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as `Debt Managers Ltd` cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If `Debt Managers Ltd` chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines. I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing ONLY, understand?

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

Is this ok with everyone?

 

Regards

 

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Hi boys and girls,

 

A little update to these idiots.

 

This morning I received the following letter from Debt Managers.

 

It goes something like this -

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, that slightly edited `bemused` letter, supplied by Curly was posted, and signed for on the 2nd October, the same date that is on the above letter.

 

So, it would seem they may have crossed in the post, although it is quite nice of them to negotiate a settlement deal on my behalf, AS IF! These bell ends must think I was born this morning

 

Think I`ll just wait and see what turns up next.

 

Any thoughts anyone?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

N.P

[citizenB]

There is of course the possibility, they received your letter and backdated this one to make it look as though there has been a cross over ! Dont you just hate it when there is no date stamp on the envelope.

[N.P]

Morning all,

 

Right after almost a month of peace, quiet and basically nothing at all, I received another letter from those clowns at Lloyds TSB yesterday.

 

It goes something like this -

 

 

 

 

 

It would seems like they are letting me know they are still around.

 

So, it looks like it`s officially time to throw this at the FOS.

 

I would appreciate some help with this complaint, as I`m not sure what to tell them. Do I need to photocopy certain letters from them, their Debt Collecters and their Solicitors, and also my key letters stating my concerns, copy of the CCA.

 

Their is also PPI on this account and a few charges, but even though the PPI box was ticked, that`s all it was, a ticked box, no follow up, no explanation of insurance, or checks to see if it is suitable etc etc.

 

Looking forward to hearing from someone soon.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

N.P

[citizenB]

Hi NP, I dont recall getting notification of this post.. I checked I am still subscribed to your thread.

 

Making a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. I have linked you to ReallyMadWoman's thread. She has used her experiences to put together some points that will help you.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/136654-complaining-financial-ombudsman-service.html

 

You will need to download the complaint form from the FOS website. I would start your complaint from when you first sent the CCA request. You will need to send copies of all the correspondence between yourselves and LTSB and associated DCAs to the current time when you have received the Final Response letter.

 

You can also send the following letter, courtesy of Bankfodder to the OFT. Amend it to suit.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-protection-unfair-trading/147830-complaint-oft-respect-invalid.html

 

If I can help further, just yell

[N.P]

Thanks for that cB, I`ll start on it soon.

 

Do I really need to send a copy of all letters? There must be a million!

 

It looks to me like they may not be 100% sure that their CCA is the mutts nutts or I think they would have filed a claim quite a while back.

 

Maybe I could just win this one. I hope so as this is my biggest debt and would be a huge relief.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

 

N.P

[citizenB]

I have to be honest and say, I DIDNT send all the correspondence btween myself and Barclay Card. I just went through the whole lot and picked out what I thought was the most applicable.

 

I have decided in future I will insist on a final response letter a lot sooner :D

 

When was this account allegedly opened ?. They seem to be struggling with documents that are over 15 years old and saying they only have to keep paperwork for 6 years which is utter tosh. They know full well they have to keep statutory documents for 6 years after the account has closed.

 

If you are sending bankfodder's letter to the OFT, you will only need to send a couple of letters perhaps the Debt Manager's one and this recent one from LTSB.

[pigsic]

Hi there N.P

Can I just ask have you complained to the fos and if so how did you get on. Mum has received those letters you got fron debt managers about receiving court papers in 7 days if she does noy pay in full.

lisa

[N.P]

Hi Lisa,

 

Thanks for the post.

 

The answer is no, I haven`t complained to the FOS yet, but I know I should. I just haven`t got around to it yet, but it looks like I may be running out of time.

 

Anyway, That 7 day dealine crap your mum received, I received one of those too. I sent Curlybens `bemused` letter to them and only last week I received a letter from Lloyds stating they are unhappy that I am unhappy with their decision and that I can complain to the FOS if I`m still unhappy. They also said they would abide by any decision the FOS makes.

 

If you haven`t sent it yet, send them CB`s bemused letter, telling them this account is in dispute with Lloyds TSB and should not be in their mingin` hands.

 

So, looks like I`m going to have to go to the FOS with this, just not sure what to put and which paperwork to copy for them, there must be a million sheets now

 

Catch you later

 

 

 

N.P

[pigsic]

Hi.N.P

 

Thanks for that advice i will send that letter of to them, but I have decided Im not going to worry and told mum not to cos there are far more people in the same situation and worse. the only thing mum thinks she will go to prison i said u cant go to prison for debt

keep fighting is my moto

lisa

[N.P]

Hi all,

 

How is everyone.

 

This thing has been quiet for a while now and I am actually in the process of filling out a Complaint Form for the FOS (I know it`s about time, but like most of you I am busy during the day, and very tired at night).

 

Anyways, there are a couple of things that I`m pondering over.

 

It would seem `mcuth` recently lost a Court Battle with Lloyds and this has made me rethink my strategy.

 

My concerns are:

 

1.) The Application/CCA Form is totaly unreadable, although the odd word stands out, but only because I expect to see them words on a document of this type.

 

The PPI box is ticked, so PPI is being applied to this account. At times I was paying £48 a month on PPI. My concern is that there is NOTHING, and I mean absolutely NOTHING to reference the value of PPI at all. I mean, how do I know what PPI I should be paying each month? There is no rate mentioned anyway regarding this. It`s like I ticked the box and I pay whatever the statement shows each month.

 

2.) The `YOUR RIGHT TO CANCEL`. Their is a tiny little box with a large heading on the bottom right. There are two lines under it, which based on other CCA`s I`ve seen read something like, `You have a short time to cancel this agreement. This will be sent to you in the post`.

 

Now, I received nothing at all in the post regarding this. So, how am I supposed to know how to cancel and by when to cancel?

 

3.) The T`S & C`s they have sent look like a Internet print out, on A4 sheets, which I suppose it ok, but this these also that the Right To Cancel will sent to me by them. It alsl states their is a short time to cancel.

 

4.) Again on their T`s & C`s. I honestly think these are the current ones and not from 2001, they just don`t seem to match the Application/CCA, but then they wouldn`t as I can`t read the damn thing anyway.

 

5.) The T`s & C`s do not have a single reference/paragraph/section refering to the PPI. There`s is not a single word in regarding the PPI.

 

I`m thinking the PPI could play a big part in this now!

 

Do you think these could be the major parts of my complaint to the FOS as well as the unreadable CCA which doesn`t appear to comply with the regulations? Not to mention it took these bum holes 6 months to actually send me a reply to my CCA request, during which time they were hassling me and still whacking on interest. Can they do this?

 

Should I quote any acts on this one or just send them the CCA and T`s & C`s I have received?

 

Thanks again people ;-)

 

 

 

N.P

Edited November 29, 2008 by N.P
Missed a bit

[citizenB]

Have you sent an S.A.R. to LTSB ?. Within that you can request

 

A copy of the original agreement

 

Policy documents relating to the PPI

 

You could ask them for the method of their application of PPI to the monthly statement. Usually it is a percentage of the outstanding balance. I must admit, I didnt think to ask this question on a couple of OH's accounts as you are correct, there doesnt appear to be any information on any of the paperwork as to how a figure would be arrived at.

 

It might be worth contacting mcuth and finding out what was the killer blow in his case.

 

alanalana might be a CAGer to ask re the PPI.

[pt2537]

PPI?

 

ok then you may have a section 18 multiple agreement in which case this means that the agreement is essentially two agreements in one document

 

therefore both agreements must have their own prescribed terms

 

im just off out but i will expand when i get back.

 

can we have a link to where the agreement is?

[N.P]

PPI?

 

ok then you may have a section 18 multiple agreement in which case this means that the agreement is essentially two agreements in one document

 

therefore both agreements must have their own prescribed terms

 

im just off out but i will expand when i get back.

 

can we have a link to where the agreement is?

 

 

Hi Paul matey,

 

Great to here from you again.

 

Yep, I`m still stalling and plodding along with this one. I think the PPI thing could play a big part in this.

 

The link to the CCA is http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/112783-lloyds-tsb-mastercard-8.html#post1458418

 

Be warned though, it really is unreadable, that is a 400 dpi scan, so the copy they sent me is exactly as you see it.

 

All I know on this, is that on the left hand side, there is a Ticked Box with a heading of Payment Protection Insurance, click to add.

 

There is no rate, or terms at all, not a single word. Their website now has full pages regarding rates and stuff, but don`t they still have to have the PPI on the document we sign? I would have thought so.

 

I`m going to spend a lot of time today, going over the statements and adding up just how much PPI I`ve paid on this. I`m not sre about the interest though, as if the monthly PPI is wrong then all the interest added from day one is wrong.

 

Thanks again mate, I look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

Regards

 

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Have you sent an S.A.R. to LTSB ?. Within that you can request

 

A copy of the original agreement

 

Policy documents relating to the PPI

 

You could ask them for the method of their application of PPI to the monthly statement. Usually it is a percentage of the outstanding balance. I must admit, I didnt think to ask this question on a couple of OH's accounts as you are correct, there doesnt appear to be any information on any of the paperwork as to how a figure would be arrived at.

 

It might be worth contacting mcuth and finding out what was the killer blow in his case.

 

alanalana might be a CAGer to ask re the PPI.

 

 

Hi cB,

 

Thanks for that. I missed it the first time I looked.

 

Do you think could make a difference to this?

 

I have in fact had a look at mcuth`s CCA, and he does not have PPI on his account, so I`m not sure if he could help.

 

alanalana is in fact helping me with a mis-sold PPI claim fro Cetelem. They simply added it on to the agreement, no options to choose at all. Simply added it on to the end of the monthly payments.

 

I`ll give mcuth a quick PM and just see what he thinks.

 

Thanks people.

 

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Right cB,

 

Yes I have sent a SAR to Lloyds TSB.

 

All they sent me was a bundle of statements, up until mid last year, although there is now more interest and crap added since then.

 

They sent the current T`s & C`s with their dodgy CCA, which again was the middle of last year. This account was opened in 2001.

 

I have noticed their website now has FULL pages of information regarding PPI and their rates etc, BUT! the agreement still has NOTHING on.

 

Does this mean, you sign for whatever they wish to change or add in the future? Sounds like a blummin [problem] to me.

 

Their is a section on the T`s & C`s they sent regarding charges. It basically read they change and add new charges at any time. Talk about a contract that`s subject to change. I`ve changed my mind about paying it now then, if that`s the case

 

 

 

N.P