Annie vs Kays/Phoenix & Fredrickson international

[skintannie]

Hi guys, i've not posted on this site before but found it invaluable now that i'm trying to sort out my debts (about time). To cut a long story short, had a debt from Kays from back in 2000, lost job, partner disabled etc etc, have been paying as much as i can afford to GCC (kays own debt collection agency). This year they started to demand more and more money, money that i do not have so following advice on here i sent a credit agreement request in march.

 

Received a letter detailing how much i'd spent on the account and a current credit application form. Not the cca i'd requested. Left it for 4 months making sure that they were way beyond the deadline. Afraid i was a bit chicken and continued to pay them a minimal amount at this stage.

 

July 2007 sat enjoying the tv when i get a phone call from Fredrickson International who inform me they now have my account and would be sending written confirmation and a payment card.

 

Upon reading the letter it appears that kays have sold or passed (dont know which) to a company called Phoenix who then sold or passed it to my mates in Fredrickson International. Sent cca request to Fredrickson end of July, still not received any agrrement though. Have however, received two rather nasty letters both demanding full payment and both threatening impending court action. Wrote to them again, informing them that kays had no right to pass the debt on cos it was in dispute, have they even acknowledged this letter, nope. Also wrote to Kays with default notice and telling them off for breaking the data protection rules. Have to date not received an acknwledgement for that one either.

 

Could it be that kays cant supply the agreement and know they cant collect on the debt so they've passed it on ? Is this normal practice ?

 

Must admit that these threatening letters have scared me, amount is over 800 so in theory they could put me up for bancruptcy couldnt they ?? Soz, i'm new to all this. Please help.

 

Finally, do any of you have a contact address for the elusive Phoenix company, they are very shy and dont provide it when their mates Fredrickson are harrassing and bullying you !

[surprise]

Did you include a £1.00 p.o/cheque with CCA letter and did you send it recorded delivery. If so, they had 12 working days from receipt and they're in default a further 30 days they've committed a criminal offence. After 12 working days you can stop paying. Kays won't have an agreement, they wrote my daughter's debt off eventually. I don't know who Phoenix are. Have you tried doing a search for Phoenix.

[gizmo111]

Seems pheonix are a new DCA for the catalogue companies.

 

They ca ntry BR but have no prrof so wont get anywhere.

 

Send this to them

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Your Ref;

I do not acknowledge any debt to you or your client.

 

Please be advised that I have contacted your client directly and requested further information under the legislation contained within s.78(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (S.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Please note this was requested on 21 August 2006, and as I have received no response from your client this debt is now unenforceable. Any legal action you initiate will be vigorously defended on this basis.

 

To this end I would like you to note that I will not enter into any further communications with your company on this matter, unless and until my request is actioned.

 

I also wish to make it absolutely clear that personal callers will be viewed as trespassers, and action will be taken, including but not limited to, Police attendance.

Or a simpler version

Dear Sir/Madam

Ref; I enclose a copy of the letter that I sent to your client on 21st August 2006. As you will be aware this debt is in dispute and unproven, your client is in default on this matter and until they reply with copies of the requested documentation, this debt is unenforceable.

I therefore suggest that you liase with your clients before you send me any further demands for money.

Yours faithfully

[skintannie]

thank you both for your prompt replies.

 

Will be sending another letter to Fredrickson with copies of previous letters to them and kays. Dont expect they will bother to read them though !!

 

Have come to the conculsion these people dont read their correspondence and just send out the threats hoping that people will be scared into paying up, well, its not gonna work this time !

 

Will of course keep you posted what happens next, expecting more threats and intimidation to come my way very soon. Stuff em !

[ashmk]

Most of the threat letters are just computer generated letters that get sent to everyone. Dont take any notice untill your request for a CCA has been fulfilled.

[m3lavo]

Hi All

 

I recieved a letter last week from frederickson internation stating that I owe 1700.00 to Choice catalogue. I rang them to advise I havent had a catalogue. They a payment was last made in 2002. I fond this really strange as I have never heard of this before. Is there anything I can do ? I don`t even remember having a choice catalogue

[lemma1968]

You really need to set up your own thread and then someone will be along to help you.;-)

[MisterSkint]

Phoenix are part of the Co Op financial services group, based in Manchester/Salford, Interesting to know they pass stuff to fredrickson.

[stadium_arcadium]

Hi Annie, glad to see you eventually made it in here, I think you will find everyone very helpful:D

 

Can anyone tell me if 'legally assigned' means the debt has been bought, or are they just acting on behalf of another?

[skintannie]

Hiya SA and thank you for your post, also a big thank you to everybody else who has posted. Just an update. This morning i sent another letter to Fredrickson, along with copies of all the other correspondence with them and kays, was a preety large letter! Lets hope that lot will keep them at bay, but i doubt it.

 

I've also requested that they provide me with Phoenix address so i can contact them also, if anyone on here knows there addy allready, i'd be most grateful.

 

As SA stated, the debt was described as 'legally assigned' to Phoenix, i dont know if that means they bought it or are acting on behalf of Kays, any ideas and does it make any difference to my position (i.e. no cca and kays in default.).

 

If I request the deed of assignment, will i be admitting ownership of debt ??

[skintannie]

Me again, just thinking about starting a complaint against kays for passing my info onto Phoenix. I do not know where to start !! Any help / template letters much appreciated. Thank you all. Shall i do their own complaints dept first, or go straight for the jugular and try Trading Standards and OFT ??

[pecky1]

HI,

I am in the same boat as you only with Marshall Ward they have legally assigned it to Phoenix as well, I CCA the pair of them on the 11/07 no reply as yet. Although the letters arrived to gether the address at the top of the Phoenix letter is

Red Castle Recoveries,

PO Box 4503

Worthing,

BN11 1XP

I would think they are one of the same.

Dont know if that helps, I am just hanging fire on this one at the moment as they have not complied.

Will watch yours with interest

[skintannie]

Thanks pecky1 for the info. But, I googled Red Castle and am now more confused. There is no mention whatsoever of Phoenix on its website !! They are part of the international Gothia Holding AS who purchased them recently.

 

Do these people purposely hide and use odd names to confuse us ??

[pecky1]

Yes I think they do, my debt was being chased by another DCA but when I sent a CCA to them it was then passed over to Phoenix,

It seems to me that once you start to challange them they then just pass it around to see if you will pay

After reading up on lots of these sort of threads the letters that we recieve are just to intimidate us in to paying are just standard letters.

I am sure that someone will be along to advise you about the deed of assingment. I dont think it will mean you admit owening the debt.

You wouldnt just pay anyone who tells you that you owe them money unless they can prove it.

[pecky1]

Just looked on Gothia site under thier code of practise

Under Debt Collection

Where a debt or the sum owed has been disputed, promptly supply information to the Debtor in support of the claim, Where no information has been supplied by the Creditor, promptly obtain the required support, Or failing that Cease Collection Action

Might have to remind them of that

[skintannie]

thank you pecky1, will try to find the site you mention and then send them another letter to remind them of their own code of practice as you suggest. Thanks again.

[skintannie]

well, i've had the wind taken out of my sails this morning. just checking through all my paperwork and to my horror i've discovered that i sent Fredrickson the copy of their cca letter and i've not got it on disk anymore !! i've got proof of its posting but no letter. I've also noticed that i've mislaid the proof of posting for the second letter i sent to their head office, grrr, what an idiot. I'm so annoyed with myself.

 

Figure i'd better contact them and make an offer of payment then, being as i've now got no proof.

 

Hope you other CAGers can take this as a lesson, LOOK AFTER ALL YOUR PAPERWORK CAREFULLY.

[skintannie]

Ok, i have been reading round the forum most of the afternoon and thankfully i found my backbone !! They dont know i've not got the letters/proof of posting so i'll continue on with my fight. (for now)

Copied this letter of a fellow CAGer and tweaked it a bit, was gonna send it on friday if i've still not received anything from them.

-------

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT WITH YOUR COMPANY, OR ANY COMPANY THAT YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT.

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I refer to my letter of 25th July, 2007 which made a legal request for a true, signed copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement in relation to the above alleged account (Consumer Credit Act, 1974), together with statements of account. To date you have failed to comply with my request and therefore, no payments will be forthcoming until such times as this document can be produced and re-enforced in court. The timeframe of 12 days is now up and I still not received the requested information.

Should you still not supply me with this information after a further 30 days you will commit a criminal offence.

 

On 30th July I wrote again, requesting that all data pertaining to me was to be deleted from your system(s) and any defaults that had been entered against my name be removed, as is my right under The Data Protection Act, 1998. This letter also informed you that this account had been passed onto you unlawfully.

On 13th July, I wrote yet again, I also supplied copies of my previous correspondence to you and also my correspondence to GCC (Kays) for your perusal. I again requested that you cease processing my details under the Data Protection Act. I asked for the full postal address of your supposed client Phoenix and finally requested that you hand the account back to GCC ( Kays) within a 14 day timeframe.

 

To date, I am disappointed to note that none of my letters have been acknowledged and no requests have been satisfied. I therefore demand that you now refrain from processing ANY further data pertaining to me and provide written confirmation that all defaults have been removed from my credit files.

 

More recently, I have also been receiving threatening letters from your company. Please note that any further failure to adhere to my instructions will result in a formal complaint being made to the relevant authorities, including but not limited to Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Does it sound okay ?? I still want to report Kays or would it be GCC their debt collectors, for passing my details onto fredrickson in the firstplace, any advice on this would be most apreciated.

[ashmk]

you put on 13th july i wrote to you yet again. In the oprevious paragraph it says you wrote to them on the 30th july. is that a typo or the worng way round ?

[ashmk]

excuse my typos... im eating lunch !!

[skintannie]

Well spotted, its a typo, should say August. D'oh. Enjoy your lunch. Thanks. xx

[pecky1]

Just go for it call thier bluff and see what happens you have nothing to lose

[skintannie]

Hiya guys, not been able to get on here for a while, just a quick update.

 

I received a letter from Fredrickson last weekend, stating that :

 

'We have referred the matter to your client and will revert to you as soon are we are in receipt of instructions. In the meantime we confirm that we have placed the account on hold.'

 

Good news i hope, but wont kid myself that its the end of the matter.

 

Strangely I received another letter today, saying the same thing.

 

They didnt however supply with the address of Phoenix even though I specifically requested it. Not sure whether to just keep quiet and leave it, and see what happens, or write again asking them for Phoenix addy (I want to cca them, just in case).

 

----

Its been 5 months since i sent the cca to kays and they have ignored my default notification letter completely. What should I do ?

 

I have sent an email enquiry to Consumer Direct regarding GCC (Kays) and their handling of this matter (i.e. passing on my information when account was in dispute). Been nearly a week since i sent the email, but still not received any reply. has anybody else had dealings with Consumer Direct, should I send another email do you think ?

 

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I am a little confused about who i complain to now, regarding the data protection issue. who should I be contacting ? All help and sample letters would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you all.

[skintannie]

Just looked at my email box and found this :::

---

 

Good afternoon xxxxxxx

 

We are in receipt of a referral from Consumer Direct regarding your issue with GCC Debt Recovery.

 

I have looked at the details of the case and have noted that GCC are a Debt recovery company as per your e-mail. For there to be an offence under S.78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, following the request for a copy of the executed credit agreement (sent together with a £1 fee) the notice must be issued on the creditor - i.e. the company you have taken the credit out with and if they do not provide this within the stipulated time in the Act, then commit an offence whilst there is a default on the request.

 

In these circumstances, in order to ascertain whether there is any offence within either our remit or the Information Commissioner Office's remit (re: use of your personal data), I would be grateful if you could contact me on xxxxxxxxx quoting the Reference No. xxxxxxx , in order that I may obtain further details of the case.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

With regards,

 

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Note the bit in red :

 

I sent the original cca to GCC Debt Recovery, who i was dealing with cos Kays had passed my file over some years ago. The application form and letter came from 'Shop Direct Financial Services', who it states (formerly GUS Home Shopping Limited and ARG Equation Limited) trading as Kays.

 

My question for the more knowledgeable among you :

 

Should this be enough to allow Consumer Direct to continue ?

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Help !!

[rory32]

I would certainly think so. Under s175 of the CCA the DCA has an obligation to pass the request for a copy of the agreement to the creditor. They obviously have done this as it is Kays who have responded.