walton v rbos

[paulwlton]

My next letter to Cobbetts will be a belter.

 

 

Regards

[car2403]

My next letter to Cobbetts will be a belter.

 

 

Regards

 

I just hope the CAG bot is ready to do it's work when you (eventually) post it on the forum :lol:

[paulwlton]

BBC are now wanting more info - More the merrier.

 

PW

Edited December 30, 2008 by paulwlton

[underdog13]

Better and better:D

 

Got problems with Natwest, myself at the moment. Does anyone know the new Chairman's name and contact details?

[The GodMother]

paul does.

[underdog13]

I bet he does, Godmother:D A search round the internet says Sir Tom McKillop - not too clear whether that's Natwest or RBS - or whether that's the same thing:confused:

[FANTASY CHARGES]

http://www.netsight.co.uk/news/articles/RBS_Zope

 

INTERESTING LITTLE link above from 2006 .....

 

WHILST THE CONTENTS MAY OR MAY NOT RELATE TO the accounts "created" by RBS the link gives an insight into RBS behaviour

 

the words " secret squirrel " come to mind

quoting from it

 

"

25 Jan 2006

Royal Bank of Scotland Embraces Zope

 

From time to time we're involved in projects that we really, really can't talk about - no matter how much we'd like to.

But today one of those projects was picked up by ZDNet.co.uk, which we reproduce here:

---

The Royal Bank of Scotland has revealed that it is working on a large content management system based on the open source application server Zope.

At the end of last year, the bank sent an email to a number of Zope mailing lists, stating that it was looking for a developer to join the CMS development team in its Corporate Markets division, which provides financial services to large and medium-sized businesses and serves around 75,000 customers worldwide.

The job advert said that the bank was looking for a developer with three years experience of developing with Zope and Python and "demonstrable experience of working with and scaling high volume Zope sites".

RBS refused to provide further comment on the project, but ZDNet UK found out some more details about the project from Matt Hamilton, technical director at open source consultancy Netsight, which worked with RBS on the project.

He said that the project, which has been going on for about two years, [MEANING STARTED IN 2004 ????? ] is one of the largest deployments of Zope that he is aware of and also "one of the most sophisticated", although he was unwilling to provide technical details. RBS is using Zope to underpin the intranet for its corporate markets division. This intranet is used daily by RBS staff, including its traders, for business processes as well as retrieving information, according to Hamilton.

Graham Oakes, an independent consultant who has worked on a number of proprietary and open source CMS projects, said that it makes sense for RBS to use Zope on its intranet, as it will allow it to keep its costs down and will not directly impact customers.

"You don't need an all-singing and dancing fancy Web site if it's not for your customers," he said. "People have more control over their own intranet, for example, if people have a problem using it, you can train them. You can't do that for customers," he explained.

Oakes said that RBS's decision to use Zope is likely to encourage other companies to do the same.

"Although Linux has become pretty well established, open source applications that are further up the stack, like content management, are closer to users so companies are worried about how usable it is and how reliable it is," Oakes said. "Every little bit of publicity helps ? if you hear about a large organisation using Zope you get more assurance that it's an enterprise-ready system and that it's going to stay around."

Gary Barnett, a research director at analyst firm Ovum, agreed that this migration is likely to attract interest, particularly as banks tend to be "fairly conservative adopters".

"A lot of banks are using applications like Apache and Perl, but it's interesting to see they're using Python and Zope as it's moderately hardcore open source stuff," he said.

Although many banks run Linux servers, the use of open source in user-facing applications is more rare. The Allied Irish Bank is migrating 7,500 users to the Java Desktop System and BPU Banca is migrating 8,000 workstation clients to Linux desktops, Red Hat announced last year.

The reason why open source migrations in banks are often kept quiet is due to the commercial sensitivity of projects, according to Barnett. Other potential reasons why open source migrations are kept under wraps were covered in ZDNet UK's recent special report, published last November.

Hamilton said that until RBS sent the email to the mailing list, the Zope community was unaware of the project.

"This was the first public announcement that they were using it ? the Zope community didn't know," he said. "I think this signals a change in thinking ? large companies are realising that to get the best out of open source they have to work with the open source community."

Hamilton claimed that RBS has successfully recruited staff with experience in developing Zope systems since posting to the mailing list. Companies are likely to struggle to recruit open source developers through the normal channels, such as recruitment agencies, he added.

"With recruitment agencies ? if you say you're looking for a Zope developer, they won't have a clue what you're talking about. If you get in with the open source community you can find the right people," he said. "

[FANTASY CHARGES]

As RBS have obtained a charge on D&Ds property the bank's processes outlined in a witness statement seem to contradict what they've told the press.

 

Qoute from the Sunday Times:

 

The bank claims the new loan accounts were created “purely” for administration and that it was never intended that the debts should be collected.

They were unable to explain exactly what the purpose of the “administrative accounts” was, why they had created them and how many customers were affected.

 

 

 

Contained in a witness statement submitted into court last year outlining the accounts purposes.

 

 

"In order to clarify the Bank's processes, when a customer's account defaults, the Bank closes the customer's branch account (in order that it can no longer be utilised), and the outstanding debt on that account is transfered to a new account set up within the Bank's Credit Management Sercices ("CMS"). CMS then use this account to track the debt and any interest thereon, with the ultimate aim of recovering the debt from the customer......

 

Regards

 

on the surface it seems the RBS definition of CMS as stated above is at a variance with the definition of CMS below

 

 

"The Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) has revealed it is working on a large content management system (CMS) based on the open source application server Zope."

[volvodriver]

on the surface it seems the RBS definition of CMS as stated above is at a variance with the definition of CMS below

 

 

"The Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) has revealed it is working on a large content management system (CMS) based on the open source application server Zope."

 

No. The devil of TLAs (three letter acronyms) is that they can refer to several different things.

 

Here RBS are doing exactly that - CMS - credit management services, an internalised TLA.

 

CMS - content management system, an externalised TLA, widely in use to mean content management system, which most internet savvy businesses have in one form or another.

 

Both are appropriate uses (if you must) of TLAs.

[paulwlton]

Better and better:D

 

Got problems with NatWest, myself at the moment. Does anyone know the new Chairman's name and contact details?

 

I understand Mckpilock...ooops Mckillop stands down in the spring.

 

 

Howard Davies

Senior Manager, Public Affairs

12th Floor

280 Bishopsgate

London

EC2M 4RB

 

Sir Tom Mckillop

Chairman

Royal Bank of Scotland

36 St Andrew's Square

EDINBURGH

ED2 2YB

Edited December 31, 2008 by paulwlton

[underdog13]

Fantastic! Thank you very much, Paul:)

 

Wishing everyone a happy, healthy, prosperous and victorious New Year:D

[paulwlton]

This'll remind RBS that this aint going away.

 

 

Howard Davies

Senior Manager, Public Affairs

12th Floor

280 Bishopsgate

London

EC2M 4RB

 

Date 31 Dec 2008

 

Dear Sir,

 

I refer to your letter forwarded to my honourable MP John Healey dated 2 April 2008 and in particular the statement you made in relation to my “recover accounts” where it is admitted and I quote you: “this was because his loan account was set up incorrectly as a different type of “recovery account”, However, you fail to state what the different type of “recovery account” is and whether you intend to rectify this error now that it’s been uncovered.

 

After receiving the bank’s confirmation that the accounts have been “set up incorrectly” I forwarded a notice pursuant to the Data Protection Act 1998 advising the bank to rectify this error and delete all incorrect data, the notice was sent by recorded delivery. However, according to the bank they never received such a notice contrary to the fact I have a dated electronic signature as prima facia proof of delivery and receipt.

 

Furthermore, at the recent court hearing a lawyer representing the bank submitted a document, which claimed the following, “the information on the accounts is both accurate and up to date” As you can imagine I am more than a little bemused and bewildered with your lawyers claim as this statement is contrary to the content of your letter dated 2nd April 2008 which I viewed as a matter of fact.

 

I have recently written to the bank’s solicitors in relation to the above matter and I am awaiting a response,

As of yet no explanation has been provided by the Bank as to why you are processing a “router account” which bears no resemblance to my indebtedness to the bank and yet this is entitled a “book debt”- monitoring for arrears. The banks failure to explain the true purpose of this “type of account” is now the subject of political concern as well as National media interest, as it has been stated by the Bank to the National Press that the Bank is not sure what the purpose of the "Router Accounts" and of what use of them are.

 

You are probably aware that a joint meeting is to take place between John Healey MP, Andrew Miller MP and Stephen Hester to try and resolve matters that have arisen from this serious unexplained erroneous accounting practice. Prior to this meeting myself and Andrew Miller’s constituent Mr William Grace are to attend a meeting in London with both our M.Ps, where we intend to put serious accusations on the table and demand that our concerns be answered one of which is if this “type of account” was never intended to be collected, then It is assumed these accounts were never presented to auditors as "performing assets", in other words RBSs “book debt” is not an asset.

 

I would like to make you aware that several media outlets are eagerly awaiting the outcome of this meeting, and are in constant touch with me with regard to the outcome and any updates I can supply them with, and of course Mr Grace, who has other serious concerns to raise.

 

I hope to receive a timely response to my criticisms .

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Paul Walton

 

Copy John Healey MP

Copy Information Commissioners Office

Copy Cobbetts LLP

Edited December 31, 2008 by paulwlton

[Sparkie1723]

And a Happy New Year to you Mr Davies:D:D

 

sparkie

[underdog13]

Hope Naziwest have a very unhappy new year

 

Give the knife an extra twist from me, Paul;)

[paulwlton]

It seems all defaulting accounts passed to CMS are assigned to "routers". The "router account" is personal data as defined under the Data Protection Act 1998 and this should be forwarded on receipt of a Subject Access Request, this is not happening - RBS are treating this as some sort of internal account and have admitted to the Times that it should never have been revealed to customers (i wonder why?). In my view this is a breach of the DPA and anyone who doesn't receive their "router" after a request should make a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

Regards

 

 

Edited January 7, 2009 by paulwlton

[JonCris]

Another load of rollocks

 

They make no reference to the fact that they have unlawfully added contractual % contrary to the original agreement. Nor does he explain why if it's only intended for internal use there is a need to include the T's & C's. Don't their own staff already know them.......... by heart.

 

Also there is no explanation as to why these 'internal' accounts & the inflated amounts have been litigated in the courts

[underdog13]

It seems all defaulting accounts passed to CMS are assigned to "routers". The "router account" is personal data as defined under the Data Protection Act 1998 and this should be forwarded on receipt of a Subject Access Request, this is not happening - RBS are treating this as some sort of internal account and have admitted to the Times that it should never have been revealed to customers (i wonder why?). In my view this is a breach of the Data Protection Act and anyone who doesn't receive their "router" after a request should make a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

Regards

 

 

RBS are now refusing point blank to produce the signed executed agreement for credit cards under a s78 request or a SAR. They claim it's not stored in a relevant filing system, so they don't have to supply it:mad:

[DandD]

This is absolute rubbish!!

 

Here's a thought.......

 

He says 'No new accounts are opened without the knowledge of our customers'!

 

Well... That is a blatant Lie, or has CMS Telford not been 'Honest' with him when they tell him what they are doing.

 

We have proof that they set up new accounts without our knowledge.

 

D&D

[paulwlton]

Another load of rollocks

 

They make no reference to the fact that they have unlawfully added contractual % contrary to the original agreement. Nor does he explain why if it's only intended for internal use there is a need to include the T's & C's. Don't their own staff already know them.......... by heart.

 

Also there is no explanation as to why these 'internal' accounts & the inflated amounts have been litigated in the courts

 

Agreed...rollocks.

Edited January 7, 2009 by paulwlton

[paulwlton]

This is absolute rubbish!!

 

Here's a thought.......

 

He says 'No new accounts are opened without the knowledge of our customers'!

 

Well... That is a blatant Lie, or has CMS Telford not been 'Honest' with him when they tell him what they are doing.

 

We have proof that they set up new accounts without our knowledge.

 

D&D

 

RBS will probably claim that your accounts were set up "as a different type of recovery account" not as a new account has you claim. (but we know different).

[Sparkie1723]

As this man Alan Dickinson has stated the router account is an automated program ..To Force any data controller to supply ALL information they hold including all information regarding automated data and decisions you must specify this..taken from the legal guidance given by the Information Commissioners Office

 

"In order to obtain this informationthe data subject must specifically request it when making the subject access request by virtue of the Data Prorection ( Subject Access) (Fees and Miscellaneous Provisions) Regulations 2000 (S.I No 191).

 

sparkie

Edited January 7, 2009 by Sparkie1723

[debbbbsy]

So basically, router accounts are set up to prevent THEM making mistakes. Just in case theres another Paul Walton, with the same account numbers, & same address, also gets into debt with the RBS.

So why the secrecy.

Debs

[DandD]

So this is to stop mistakes?

 

Then why?, when they set our 'ROUTER' account up did they spell my name wrong and get my address wrong?

 

This Bank is unbelievable!

 

D

[Sparkie1723]

The explanation of the new "router account" number ......to prevent duplication with customers with the same name....................I would have thought that the unique bank account Number given to your bank account, one which is recognised through out the world banking system would be sufficient to attend those particular needs............no one else has the same account number as you ...so what is the problem and why change the account number......to enable manipulation of accounts .....and for no other reason.

 

sparkie

[debbbbsy]

As this man lan Dickinson has stated the router account is an automated program ..To Force any data controller to supply ALL information they hold including all information regarding automated data and decisions you must specify this..

 

In our original SAR to Joyce E Tudor, there was no mention of router accounts. But in our "Diary event history" from CMS it mentions router accounts, & even the account numbers. It was from this that we specifically asked for data .....& got it.

Oh, & the banks Solicitor also had our router account numbers.Not so internal then.

Debs