Hsbc

[DAB 40]

Hi Everyone. Just joined. I have decided to reclaim charges from HSBC who have been charging me from £60.00 to £125.00 per month for the last year or so. It all started when I went a few pounds over my agreed overdraft limit. I am on a tight budget and just couldn't catch up and I think its what you call the snowball effect. I practice law and am highly embarrassed it never occurred to me that these charges may not be lawful. I had always felt they were far too high and not fair but recovery through the Court NO! In my defence I think it is true that we are all made to feel really guilty and bad if we incurr charges - it is the Banks' way of 'keeping us in line'. If anyone has ever asked to have charges refunded (I have many times) you will know you are made to feel like an incompetent idiot who really should get their finances in order which ( when you ask for a refund) generally you are. The answer has always been no and the offer of a loan which you can't afford - more interest for them. Anyway having looked at the case law on this I think it is a win win situation for consumers. Have sent DPA request - will keep you posted.

 

PS. If anyone has any questions of a legal nature I will do my best to help. Don't be put off by the fact this initially 'went over my head' I am good at my job and will contibute as much as I can to this site. I have most of the tools needed to research the law etc so please ask if anything new comes up and i'll be glad to help if I can.

[overcharged_consumer]

Hi Dab,

 

Welcome and good luck. WHen you get your statements through (you know you can access them online too don't you), have a look for the spreadsheet in the library section. Just tap in the amount, date and description of each charge and it tots it all up for you. It also calculates the interest you can claim should your claim end up in court proceedings.

 

OC

[DAB 40]

Thanks very much for that I will try and get my statements online as from reading this site it appears if will give the Bank less time to try and wear me down! No chance of that.

[DAB 40]

Can I still access them online if I don't have an online account and if so how?

[overcharged_consumer]

Do you have telephone banking? You should be able to register on-line for on-line banking using your telephone banking security code.

 

Go to www.hsbc.co.uk click online banking and register.

 

You'll need your sort code, acc no, date of birth and telephone banking security code. If you don't have a security code you'll have to request it to be set up I think.

 

OC

[DAB 40]

Thanks so much for that. Well here goes i'll keep everyone informed!

[DAB 40]

Hi everyone. I started out with a Data Protection Act request for statements (because stupidly I didn't read all the FAQ's first). Luckily, some kind person told me I could register for internet banking and get my statements on line. I did this and wrote to HSBC with a request for payment on 21st June. My charges were £3,000.00 over the past six years. I did adapt the letter and have given them seven days to reply (it's the lawyer in me!). I sent the original to my branch and copies to head office and customer services. The address for the head office is:-

 

David Lewis

HSBC Bank PLC

Group Headquarters,

Level 31,

8, Canada Square,

London,

E14 5HQ.

 

The address for customer services is :-

 

HSBC Bank PLC

Service Quality Team

Arlington Business Centre,

Millshaw Park Lane,

Leeds,

LS11 OPP.

 

It is my opinion that if you send the original to branch with a copy to the head office and customer service centre then you are covered all ways round as to having properly served the Bank. This is only my opinion and does not constitute legal advice.

 

I intend to keep a note of the time spent preparing my case as it may be possible to claim costs even in the small claims court as they have the power to award costs if the other party acts unreasonably and I intend to argue that they have if they don't turn up to the hearing. In my experience a Judge will generally accept that argument. I will claim for my time spent preparing. ( You can (as a litigant in person) claim up to two thirds of what a lawyer would claim) so I will be using Lawyer rates £90.00 to £150.00 per hour. Best way is to choose a rate and knock off a third before arriving at the rate you will use (see why later) Litigant in person rates are in fact approx £9.00 per hour at present (outside London). The Judge can reduce anything claimed to this rate but I will try for the higher rate first. In addition the Court can award for loss of earnings for staying away from work or home and any reasonable expenses i.e. Travel costs. If it does get to court I think it is worth preparing a simple schedule with date/work carried out/time taken and amount claimed/ expenses item etc and loss of earnings with Total cost for the Judge (they like things made clear for them - and it earns you brownie points). Just take it with you on the day and give it to the usher before the hearing (keep a copy for your own reference in court). Like I say this is only my opinion and not legal advice and Courts vary from area to area. All the Judge can do is reduce the amount you've claimed so try it. Remember this is if the Bank don't turn up (which reading this forum seems to be the case).

 

Anyway getting a bit ahead of myself there as waiting for reply to preliminary request first. Will keep everyone posted.

[maverik1979]

that sounds absolutely spot on advice, but no-one has actually ended up in court yet (hsbc anyway), are you hoping to be the first?

[barracad]

Threads merged - please stick to one thread

 

@Dab40

 

I suggest you have a read of the materials available to you in this forum. There is no need to send 3 copies of a letter to 3 different departments, just deal wth 1 department, and if you get to the stage of starting legal proceedings ensure you use the Registered Office address.

 

These claims are being settled out of court so it is unlikely your claim will be heard in court. If HSBC do decide that you are 'the one' that they will go all the way and defend in court - there is no way that they wouldn't turn up for the hearing so you wouldn't be able to claim they were unreasonable by not showing up.

 

Also, Small Claims works on a 'no costs' basis - this is for your benefit as well as the Defendant - if you lost you wouldn't be faced with a legal bill from HSBC running into thousands or tens of thousands of pounds. A judge would only award costs to be paid in very exceptional circumstances, and even then there is a set rate of how much you can claim - there is no way you could claim £150 per hour.

 

Finally, you state that the banks are not turning up for these Court hearings. If you could point me to one example of where a bank has acknowledged a claim, entered a defence, got a court date but not bothered turning up for it, I would be very interested to see this.

 

 

[DAB 40]

I have obviously not been very clear. It is not necessary for there to be a final hearing for something to be dealt with by the Court. As soon as a summons has been issued the matter is being dealt with by the Court. I have read that many people have had to issue proceedings (ie a summons) in order to recover charges. Hence the draft particulars of claim in the library and the interest calculator. Any time spent on preparing a case can be recovered in small claims where the other party has acted unreasonably. 1CPR27.14 (2) (d). There are many stages in a claim before the final hearing. I have read the bank have failed to acknowledge claims and or failed to turn up at the allocation hearing. Any costs incurred in time spent i.e preparation of summons and application for Judgement in default could therefore be claimed. Unreasonable is defined in part at 1/CPR/27.14/1 and includes failure to comply with directions or orders, failure to comply with pre-action protocols and interestingly also includes deliberately mis-stating the value of a claim so as to cause it to be allocated to the small claims track instead of the fast track in order to avoid the consequent liability in costs !!

 

The amount that can be claimed is governed by 1/CPR/48.6 and 48.6/1. The hourly rate that can be claimed is set by a practice direction of the court and is currently around £9. per hour. However it is possible to claim much more than this but it is complicated to explain and you would need to refer to the rules above.

 

In addition the court can also award court fees, expenses and loss of earnings. 1CPR27.14 (3). So if a person had to have time off work to attend an allocation hearing or a directions appointment they could reasonably request these costs back.

 

Finally I do not want to be "the one" as you put it. I just want to recover my money as quickly as possible and go. However if I can help anyone else in the process I will do so.

 

I do not intend the above to be used as legal advice. This is not my field of law. Is just represents my opinion on how to use the court procedure. I thought any costs recovered could be donated to this site along with the suggested donation of 5% of the claim.

[maverik1979]

it wasnt meant to be offensive, thats not the way i operate

[DAB 40]

Hi. NO. I didn't think you were offensive at all. You've been a real help. That long message was in reply to barracad. I think I just got a bit carried away with my previous message and didn't explain things clearly enough. I clicked your scales (as it were:) ) yesterday. Thanks for the encouragement.

[maverik1979]

-mavs back in happy mode

[DAB 40]

Hi glad about that. Anyway i've just sent off 2nd letter which I got from another site and adapted. I'll try and post it later if I can - not too good with technical side of this!! I'll let you know how i get on. Thanks again.

[DAB 40]

Hi. An update! Proceedings issued by me on 31st August. No reply in post on 14th September so applied for Judgement. When I got home there was a letter from the Court. An acknowledgement stating an intention to defend. Is this a stalling tactic ?

[angela1606]

yep not long now prob get a letter from dg solicitors asking for a copy of the breakdown of charges then a full offer good luck

[claire78]

They acknowledged mine on 22nd August, I got a letter today asking for the breakdown of charges, (to give you an idea of timescales)

 

Not another lawyer? Thought it was just me!

[DAB 40]

Hi. Yes. Think I got carried away trying to be too helpful! Why does no one trust a Lawyer! I'm at stage where I can request Judgement on 15th but understand I may get an offer of payment before then which is a bit confusing because I have no intention of taking anything less than what i've claimed and I want my costs. Do you agree the Bank's are abusing the Court process by filing acknowledgements and then no defence! I won't hold you to your opinion by the way (LOL) it's just a relief to have a legal brain to pick.