SLC Cannot Supply The Original Agreement

[paulwlton]

Could i get an enforcer to take my complaint against Barclaycard to court, the enforcers include local councills legal departments who are in control of weights and measures i had this confirmed recently by a local solicitor, the enforcers are stated in part 8 (EAO2).

 

under Part 8 of the Enterprise Act 2002 (EA02). This gives certain enforcers power to seek court orders against businesses that infringe, or in certain circumstances are likely to infringe, specified legal obligations to consumers, where this harms or would harm the collective interests of consumers.

 

 

[tamadus]

Could i get an enforcer to take my complaint against Barclaycard to court, the enforcers include local councills legal departments who are in control of weights and measures i had this confirmed recently by a local solicitor, the enforcers are stated in part 8 (EAO2).

 

 

under Part 8 of the Enterprise Act 2002 (EA02). This gives certain enforcers power to seek court orders against businesses that infringe, or in certain circumstances are likely to infringe, specified legal obligations to consumers, where this harms or would harm the collective interests of consumers.

 

 

 

I'm trying ot get TS as the local weights and measures officers to take mine up against Barclaycard as well Paul. In the meantime I have told them its obvious there isnt a properly executed credit agreement and to go whistle

[rosierose]

Just a quick addition.

 

My local TS are taking enforcement action against Sainsbury's Bank for CCA breachs (s78), Administration of Justice Act offences and have forwarded information to offcom to investigate breachs of the Communications Act.

[paulwlton]

I'm trying ot get TS as the local weights and measures officers to take mine up against Barclaycard as well Paul. In the meantime I have told them its obvious there isnt a properly executed credit agreement and to go whistle

 

 

I'm at the same stage tamadus, Barclaycard keep ringing threatening to default me, how can they default me when they're in default?

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Paul

[tamadus]

Just a quick addition.

 

My local TS are taking enforcement action against Sainsbury's Bank for CCA breachs (s78), Administration of Justice Act offences and have forwarded information to offcom to investigate breachs of the Communications Act.

 

Rosie that's excellent news, I think we can believe the consumer revolution has arrived when the statutory authorities start taking action on our behalf. Now if we could only get the OFT off it's backside

 

Paul I have received 2 letters now from Barclaycards favourite pet DCA, Mercers, issuing default notices and that same question keeps coming into my head. How can you issue a default against me for an unenforceable debt when your not only in default but have commited at least 3 criminal offences? Personally I hope they do register a default because thats yet another offence they are going to have to face when the piper starts playing their tune.

[paulwlton]

Rosie that's excellent news, I think we can believe the consumer revolution has arrived when the statutory authorities start taking action on our behalf. Now if we could only get the OFT off it's backside

 

Paul I have received 2 letters now from Barclaycards favourite pet DCA, Mercers, issuing default notices and that same question keeps coming into my head. How can you issue a default against me for an unenforceable debt when your not only in default but have commited at least 3 criminal offences? Personally I hope they do register a default because thats yet another offence they are going to have to face when the piper starts playing their tune.

 

When in default an agreement cannot be enforced, so in theory no charges can be aplied, and no interest, a default is defined has a failure to meet an obligation but if the agreement isn't in force their is no obligation.

 

Untill Barclaycard produce the agreement they can whistle.

[rosierose]

Rosie that's excellent news, I think we can believe the consumer revolution has arrived when the statutory authorities start taking action on our behalf. Now if we could only get the OFT off it's backside :grin:

 

Indeed Tam,

 

When I spoke to TS about the Sainsbury's affair they were dubious about the OFT taking any action re licensing - asking me to get in touch with them personally. Odd that the Link/MBNA situation had them running to the OFT.

 

Of course, with companies of the size of HBOS the economic impact would make revoking a credit license a non-starter, wouldn't it? What other action, save a warning could the OFT take?

[Peterbard]

Hey jon

I know what a summarry judjment is for others reding this the definition is "Judgment obtained by a plaintiff where there is no defence to the case or the defence contains no valid grounds ".

 

But That was not my question the definition of civil law is

 

"Civil Law is the section of the law that deals with disputes between individuals or organisations. For example, a car crash victim claims damages against the driver for loss or injury sustained in an accident, or one company sues another over a trade dispute.

Unlike criminal offences, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) doesn't prosecute a civil offence. Rather than any sentence, custodial or otherwise, the end result is usually financial compensation.

Civil Law has developed in a similar way to the way criminal law has, through a mixture of Statutory Law made by governments, and 'precedent' which is created by earlier cases.

Theref ore my question remains what is the prceedure for ensuting criminal prossecution for none compliance with secton77.

Best regards

Peter

.

[tbern123]

People have and will continue to be sent to prison due to criminal breach of sections 77 and 78.

 

If a company/creditor comits a legal offence by not conforming witha section 77 how do report it.

 

would you have to make a seperate complaint to the police CPR as i don't believe the civil courts have the powers to rule on a criminal act. My knowledge in this area is very sketchy so i would appretiate any advice.

 

Ok I am a little confused... Can someone please clarify ?

 

The wording of the CCA, only states an offence. I always thought that this would be a civil offence.

 

--- ASK CEDRIC ---

http://www.rsc.org/images/2_Difference_tcm18-17644.pdf

 

But I could be wrong

[tamadus]

Ok I am a little confused... Can someone please clarify ?

 

The wording of the CCA, only states an offence. I always thought that this would be a civil offence.

 

--- ASK CEDRIC ---

http://www.rsc.org/images/2_Difference_tcm18-17644.pdf

 

But I could be wrong

 

Apparently it's a level 4 offence and carries a £2500 fine and/or imprisonment. As far as I know the imprisonment element makes it a criminal offence which civil offences dont usually carry.

[tbern123]

Thanks for that.

 

That is what I like about this site, you learn something new everyday.. I will have to bring this up in my next Cabot email

[tamadus]

Thanks for that.

 

That is what I like about this site, you learn something new everyday.. I will have to bring this up in my next Cabot email

 

LMAO you must love Cabot by now

 

I think any offence that breaches an act of Parliament is considered a criminal offence even if it's prosecuted by an authority like Trading Standards.

 

Civel offences exist between individuals and companies where the offence is not covered by statute. But I could of course be totally wrong

[JonCris]

There is no such thing as a civil 'offence' that's why many councils are finding their parking tickets are unenforcable because they refer to 'offence' or 'penalty' or 'fine'

[Peterbard]

Good Point

 

the question I am asking is section 193 lists Custodial and finantial fines to be imposed on breaches of the act but as per the HMO website" Unlike criminal offences, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) doesn't prosecute a civil offence. Rather than any sentence, custodial or otherwise, the end result is usually financial compensation" so does this mean that the action would be classed as a criminal or civil one?and if the latterso would a civil court be able to impose it.]

I don't know i mearly ask the question.

Regards

Peter.

[Peterbard]

Thanks T

We can alway depend on you to give a straight forward answer.

So if the case was brought as part of a civil action in a county court whilst the judge could rule that an offence had taken place.In order to get a criminal conviction it would have to go to a magistrates court.

Peter

[tamadus]

There is no such thing as a civil 'offence' that's why many councils are finding their parking tickets are unenforcable because they refer to 'offence' or 'penalty' or 'fine'

 

Agreed Jon there is no such thing as a civil offence. civil cases are usually brought to settle a disputebut the word offence has a nice ring to it and people like to see it

[tamadus]

Thanks T

We can alway depend on you to give a straight forward answer.

So if the case was brought as part of a civil action in a county court whilst the judge could rule that an offence had taken place.In order to get a criminal conviction it would have to go to a magistrates court.

 

Peter

 

I dont think that would be neccessary Peter as I am sure a county court is higher in the chain than a magistates court. I suspect (and common sense should back it up) that if in a civil court a criminal offence becomes apparent and no defence is offered then the District Judge can summarily deal with it.

 

Hence the Judge threatening to jail the data controller if he had their name shortly before xmas. Had the claimant been able to supply the name then the data controller for RBOS would have had a bleak xmas.

[Peterbard]

I dont think that would be neccessary Peter as I am sure a county court is higher in the chain than a magistates court

 

Not a question of higher up the chain but on a different chain. One civil one criminal.

 

I was under the impression that civil and criminal prcedure were seperate aspects of the law and a civil court could not enforce a criminal action. Is this incorect?

Peter

[Peterbard]

http://www.leeds.ac.uk/law/hamlyn/courtsys.jpg

 

 

I tried to copy this onto the post but then i noticed it was copyrighted so i did a link instead .I think it shows the different paths of civil and criminal prceedure.

Cheers peter

[noomill060]

Probably comes down the power of a judge and their ability to dispense summary justice.

[InKogneeToh]

Hi, have just been reading the latest posts on this thread about powers of county court re: criminal offences.

 

On the link you have copied Peter it looks as though the High Court is the next level for both magistrates court (criminal) and county court (civil) cases so perhaps a claim which includes elements of criminal offences committed by creditors/DCA's would have to be started at High Court level.

 

Regards, Pam

[ADDABET]

Sorry for hijacking this brilliant:D thread again but have a quick question ................

Doe's the 'true copy of a signed agreement' have to be signed by both party's ???

As the 'Office Use Only' box on my Credit agreement sent to me is empty ???

[un1boy]

Addabet, this is covered on this thread many many times!!

 

To satisfy your request under secs 77-79 of the CCA they can send you a copy of your agreement omitting certain information like the sig boxes, so long as it is a true copy of your original agreement.

 

However, although they have satisfied the request, I would be inclined to write to them asking to see the full agreement, because if they do have it then I can't see any reason for them to send you one with the boxes omitted.

 

Hope this helps!

[ADDABET]

un1boy,

 

Doe's that fact that it arrived well after the 30 day limit make it unenforecable ???

And how doe's one prove this as i didn't (stupidly ) keep the envelope with the stamp date ???

[un1boy]

If they fail to supply the docs after 12 working days then they are defualt and they are not allowed to enforce the agreement until it is shown to you. (ie you can stop payments).

 

If they still fail to supply it one calendar month after the 12 days, then they have commited an offence and the agreement can only be enforced with a court order.

 

If they produce docs after the 12 days but before the calendar month then the agreement is enforcable.

 

It is important to know that the debt still exists, but they cannot come after you for it until they get a court order!

 

As for proving it....hmmm.....not too sure, although they would have probably noted on their systems that it was sent, so a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) might be a good start.

 

I always keep the envelopes for things like that!