SLC Cannot Supply The Original Agreement

[tamadus]

This could be a useful cross-reference:

 

 

 

As you see, it's clearly referred to as pre-contract.

 

Pete

 

I think we have suspected that all along. but having the correct section and wording as a counter is useful. this entire SI 1983 argument ONLY APPLIES to NEW pre-contract agreements. It does NOT cover sections 77/78 which have to be the full signed and executed agreement + any other document mentioned in it, which includes terms and conditions.

 

The first that tries this excuse on me is going to find themselves speaking to the Law Society

 

 

[kateandpete]

Monty Python sketch

 

Bruce!

[tamadus]

Bruce!

 

LMAO

[Number6]

I had a phone call from HSBC today asking for cash. I told them the account is under dispute and all correspondence should be in writing. If they ARE trying to pull the wool over my eyes, I am thinking of using the word 'harassment' in my next letter.

 

I cheerfully used "harrassment" in a letter to LTSB today. They seem to be under the impression that they can close my current account and reclaim the several £000 overdraft that is entirely penalty charges and associated interest and which is currently with the courts!

 

Pete

[Number6]

Bruce!

 

So it was!

 

Pete (now known for the purposes of this thread as Bruce!)

[Number6]

Bruce

 

Pull back to reveal the knee belongs to First Bruce, an Australian in full Australian outback gear. We briefly hear a record of 'Waltzing Mathilda'. He is sitting in a very hot, slightly dusty room with low wicker chairs, a table in the middle, big centre fan, and old fridge.

Second Bruce Goodday, Bruce!

First Bruce Oh, Hello Bruce!

Third Bruce How are yer Bruce?

First Bruce Bit crook, Bruce.

Second Bruce Where's Bruce?

First Bruce He's not here, Bruce.

Third Bruce Blimey, s'hot in here, Bruce.

First Bruce S'hot enough to boil a monkey's bum!

Second Bruce That's a strange expression, Bruce.

First Bruce Well Bruce, I heard the Prime Minister use it. S'hot enough to boil a monkey's bum in 'ere, your Majesty,' he said and she smiled quietly to herself.

Third Bruce She's a good Sheila, Bruce and not at all stuck up.

Second Bruce Ah, here comes the Bossfella now! - how are you, Bruce?

Enter fourth Bruce with English person, Michael

Fourth Bruce Goodday, Bruce, Hello Bruce, how are you, Bruce? Gentlemen, I'd like to introduce a chap from pommie land... who'll be joining us this year here in the Philosophy Department of the University of Woolamaloo.

All Goodday.

Fourth Bruce Michael Baldwin - this is Bruce. Michael Baldwin - this is Bruce. Michael Baldwin - this is Bruce.

First Bruce Is your name not Bruce, then?

Michael No, it's Michael.

Second Bruce That's going to cause a little confusion.

Third Bruce Mind if we call you 'Bruce' to keep it clear?

Fourth Bruce Well, Gentlemen, I think we'd better start the meeting. Before we start, though, I'll ask the padre for a prayer.

First Bruce snaps a plastic dog-collar round his neck. They all lower their heads.

First Bruce Oh Lord, we beseech thee, have mercy on our faculty, Amen!!

All Amen!

Fourth Bruce Crack the tubes, right! (Third Bruce starts opening beer cans) Er, Bruce, I now call upon you to welcome Mr. Baldwin to the Philosophy Department.

Second Bruce I'd like to welcome the pommy bastard to God's own earth, and I'd like to remind him that we don't like stuck-up sticky-beaks here.

All Hear, hear! Well spoken, Bruce!

Fourth Bruce Now, Bruce teaches classical philosophy, Bruce teaches Haegelian philosophy, and Bruce here teaches logical positivism, and is also in charge of the sheepdip.

Third Bruce What's does new Bruce teach?

Fourth Bruce New Bruce will be teaching political science - Machiavelli, Bentham, Locke, Hobbes, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Lindwall, Miller, Hassett, and Benet.

Second Bruce Those are cricketers, Bruce!

Fourth Bruce Oh, spit!

Third Bruce Howls of derisive laughter, Bruce!

Fourth Bruce In addition, as he's going to be teaching politics, I've told him he's welcome to teach any of the great socialist thinkers, provided he makes it clear that they were wrong.

They all stand up.

All Australia, Australia, Australia, Australia, we love you. Amen!

They sit down.

Fourth Bruce Any questions?

Second Bruce New Bruce - are you a pooftah?

Fourth Bruce Are you a pooftah?

Michael No!

Fourth Bruce No right, well gentlemen, I'll just remind you of the faculty rules: Rule one - no pooftahs. Rule two, no member of the faculty is to maltreat the Abbos in any way whatsoever - if there's anybody watching. Rule three - no pooftahs. Rule four - I don't want to catch anyone not drinking in their room after lights out. Rule five - no pooftahs. Rule six - there is no rule six! Rule seven - no pooftahs. That concludes the reading of the rules, Bruce.

[tamadus]

[tamadus]

Uh oh is number6 hearing Australian voices now LMAO

[Peterbard]

The regulation 3(2) apply to Schedule. part i/ii/iii/iv which in turn apply to the cca 1974 sections 58,62,63,63(4) Stautory instrument no,1557

Any way you get the idea none of these are the good old 77-79

These are outlined in regulation 2 whichis part of SI 1983 no 1569

 

Does that make things any clearer

my brain hurts

 

Pedro

[tamadus]

The regulation 3(2) apply to Schedule. part i/ii/iii/iv which in turn apply to the cca 1974 sections 58,62,63,63(4) Stautory instrument no,1557

Any way you get the idea none of these are the good old 77-79

These are outlined in regulation 2 whichis part of SI 1983 no 1569

 

Does that make things any clearer

my brain hurts

 

Pedro

 

Excellent work sorting it out peter, it was always a case of cross referencing the various sections. Our good old safety net of 77/78 is intact.

 

Now we only need to convince the companies. Oh and Bruce of course

[Number6]

Excellent work sorting it out peter, it was always a case of cross referencing the various sections. Our good old safety net of 77/78 is intact.

 

Now we only need to convince the companies. Oh and Bruce of course

 

I'm not arguing, just clarifying.

 

If I get hold of SI 1983 / 1569 (The Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving

Information) Regulations 1983) then will I be able to extract all the required information to be able to formulate a letter to any company trying to fob me off with a Reg 3 letter?

 

Or will I need also to read 1983 / 1557?

 

I suppose what I'm asking is what SI's precisely do I need to ask my friendly library assistant for tomorrow?

 

Bruce

[tamadus]

I'm not arguing, just clarifying.

 

If I get hold of SI 1983 / 1569 (The Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving

Information) Regulations 1983) then will I be able to extract all the required information to be able to formulate a letter to any company trying to fob me off with a Reg 3 letter?

 

Or will I need also to read 1983 / 1557?

 

I suppose what I'm asking is what SI's precisely do I need to ask my friendly library assistant for tomorrow?

 

Bruce

 

I think you will also need SI 1983/1557

 

The real problem here is that The Act always remains in force unless it's rescinded. To modify an Act they Issue Statutory Instruments on the order of the secretary of state. (Actually some civil servant does it and tells the secretary about it afterwards, but it's done in his/her name)

 

Now anybody with any common sense would sit down and actually modify the act for general usage but thats too simple. so we end up with 1 Act of Parliament and 100 modifications, all of which have some relevance on the rest, and which generally mean that a new Act would have been a lot easier and taken less time.

 

So we now have the CCA and various SI's which dictate copies of documents whilst another one dictates timespans etc etc. I think you get my drift lol.

 

I guess the only real way is to sit down and read the CCA alongside a copy of every SI and the 1988 /2004 alterations and write out your own version. Our problem is we dont have the legal training to do it quickly and as accurately as we would like.

 

The non-Bruce

[tamadus]

Oh I forgot an Act of Parliament needs another Act of Parliament to rescind it;) which is probably why we still have legal acts of parliament that count in groats and laws that date back centuries.

 

For example the death penalty is now outlawed in this country by europe ( we can't even have another vote on it) yet Treason is still punishable by the death penalty

[Number6]

I think you will also need SI 1983/1557

 

The real problem here is that The Act always remains in force unless it's rescinded. To modify an Act they Issue Statutory Instruments on the order of the secretary of state. (Actually some civil servant does it and tells the secretary about it afterwards, but it's done in his/her name)

 

Now anybody with any common sense would sit down and actually modify the act for general usage but thats too simple. so we end up with 1 Act of Parliament and 100 modifications, all of which have some relevance on the rest, and which generally mean that a new Act would have been a lot easier and taken less time.

 

So we now have the CCA and various SI's which dictate copies of documents whilst another one dictates timespans etc etc. I think you get my drift lol.

 

I guess the only real way is to sit down and read the CCA alongside a copy of every SI and the 1988 /2004 alterations and write out your own version. Our problem is we dont have the legal training to do it quickly and as accurately as we would like.

 

The non-Bruce

 

Yes, I know the problems.

 

I've spent much of the last year interpreting and lobbying about the NERC Bill, (now NERC Act). Only passed into statute early this year and already there are loads of SI's and FAQ documents.

 

That one was and is a nightmare. I'm still looking for loopholes ;-)

 

Pete

[tamadus]

Yes, I know the problems.

 

I've spent much of the last year interpreting and lobbying about the NERC Bill, (now NERC Act). Only passed into statute early this year and already there are loads of SI's and FAQ documents.

 

That one was and is a nightmare. I'm still looking for loopholes ;-)

 

Pete

 

Is that the Natural Enviroment Research Council ?

[pugsley]

a standard reply letter would be good as alot of people are getting similar letters to mine. I will reply to mine after 3/11 as it will have been 42 days then. Will keep an eye out for a good reply on here till then.

[tamadus]

How about something along these lines.

 

As you are no doubt aware the The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and copies of Documents) regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) is only applicable in conjunction with The Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations) 1983 (SI 1983/1569) and are only applicable to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sections 58,62,63,63 and 64. My request is a statutory request made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 77/78 and therefore the copy of the credit agreement requested must be a true copy of the fully executed agreement.

[Peterbard]

Now we only need to convince the companies. Oh and Bruce of course

 

Hello again i have just been reading my tatty photocopy of the SI 1983/1569 and i think I have found something that might even convince Bruce it reads.

 

EXPLANATORY NOTE

(This is not part of the regulations)

 

Under sections 77(1),79(1)103(1)etcof the Consumer Credit Act,certain information MUST be given to the debtor,hirer and sureties under agreements regulated by the Act where they gave a written request or notice to that effect and pay the required fee.These Regulations presribe for a period of 12 working days after reciept of that request of notice for the provision of that information.

 

I altered the font on the good bits

 

To Me this affirms that sections 77-79 of the act are not compromised by the regulations mentioned in section 3(2)

 

now I am definately going to bed

 

Cheers Peter

[tamadus]

Now we only need to convince the companies. Oh and Bruce of course

 

Hello again i have just been reading my tatty photocopy of the SI 1983/1569 and i think I have found something that might even convince Bruce it reads.

 

EXPLANATORY NOTE

(This is not part of the regulations)

 

Under sections 77(1),79(1)103(1)etcof the Consumer Credit Act,certain information MUST be given to the debtor,hirer and sureties under agreements regulated by the Act where they gave a written request or notice to that effect and pay the required fee.These Regulations presribe for a period of 12 working days after reciept of that request of notice for the provision of that information.

 

I altered the font on the good bits

 

To Me this affirms that sections 77-79 of the act are not compromised by the regulations mentioned in section 3(2)

 

now I am definately going to bed

 

Cheers Peter

 

I think you just earned a very good nights sleep Peter I'll have to work that into my suggested paragraph for a response letter.

[noomill060]

Well done you guys! Hats off to your tenacity!

[tamadus]

In light of Peters goodnight post this may be even better for inclusion in a response letter to the argument

 

As you are no doubt aware the The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and copies of Documents) regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) is only applicable in conjunction with The Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations) 1983 (SI 1983/1569). These Statutory Instruments describe the form of copy documents and the period of time allowed for supplying them, and are only applicable to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sections 58,62,63,63 and 64. My request is a statutory request made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 77/78 and therefore the copy of the credit agreement requested must be a true copy of the fully executed agreement.

 

I would suggest the following extract from the explanatory notes that accompany The Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations) 1983 (SI 1983/1569) should make this perfectly clear.

 

Under sections 77(1),78(1),79(1)103(1) etc of the Consumer Credit Act,certain information must be given to the debtor,hirer and sureties under agreements regulated by the Act, where they gave a written request or notice to that effect and pay the required fee.These Regulations prescribe for a period of 12 working days after reciept of that request of notice for the provision of that information.

[tamadus]

Well done you guys! Hats off to your tenacity!

 

Thanks noomill but peter found the SI that made the breakthrough. He must have spent hours in his local library today.

[elsinore]

D'you mean Peter, Peter, Peter or Bruce?

 

Elsinore

[tamadus]

D'you mean Peter, Peter, Peter or Bruce?

 

Elsinore

 

 

 

Errrr Bruce, Bruce Peter Bruce lmao and I notice he just logged back in so if your watching Peter/Bruce go get some sleep you earned it today

[tamadus]

Coments and rewrites on the suggested draft I posted above are welcome