Barclaycard debt at Lowells - would love some advice!

[chris223b]

Hi,

 

I'll spare you the full sob story, but last summer my life fell apart, I fell into depression, and moved back with my parents for a while.

 

At the time of moving I had a Barclaycard with £500 on it which I'd held for 4 years. The last payment made to Barclaycard was in June 2006.

 

Being that the account was registered to an address I no longer live at, and the phone number they had for me no longer exists, combined with my generally not caring about my affairs made it easy not to think about it.

 

Now it seems, they've found me, and it's now been sold to Lowell's. I've not yet had the letter, but my mother had a phone call today on her landline asking for me. Searching on the internet for them identified them to be a DCA - and it can only be about the Barclaycard.

 

Although I can't argue with the debt morally, and I now have a job and would be willing to enter into a realistic payment plan, from reading here it seems that they won't want to know - and I can't afford to pay it all it once.

 

Although I'm still registered to vote at my parents house and have my bank account registered there, I no longer live there.

 

I did ring them and get them to acknowledge that the contact details they have for me are for my parents house, and got transfered to another department, but in the process was cut off. As yet they don't know my address and I've not discussed or acknowledged the debt with them.

 

I'm in the process of reading up on here about going down the letter writing, CCA, and TS route. But I wondered if that's always the best route to go down?

• Is it worth even bothering to accept the debt and proposing a repayment plan, or would that jeopordise any other options I might have?
  
• I've never dealt with Lowells before, but have with a couple of other DCAs on a much smaller scale. With those I've always buckled and paid up, but the letter always includes a threat of a knock at the door. Realisitically, how likely is this to actually happen with Lowells?
  
• If they did turn up, they'd turn up at my parent's house (which I don't want happening). Since I don't reside there (despite having things registered there) and nothing of consequence in the house is mine, am I right in assuming that they could not attempt to reposess anything, because that would be theft?
  
• I'm assuming they've taken it up at my parents address because the card has previously been registered there and have started trying previous addresses, but if I've never confirmed with Barclaycard that my address details changed, can they legally persue action against me at an address which they've got only reason to believe that I live at, but have never actually had it confirmed by me (and indeed, on the phone, have had me confirm that it's *not* my address, although they don't have my actual one)?
  
• I've not yet had the letter so don't know how much they want, but if it's a ridiculous amount, is there much legal ground in accepting a given figure of the debt, offering payment of that amount, and continuing to contest and seek proof of the rest?

I'd be happy to sort it out by paying it rather than trying to get out of it, but if they won't play ball, I'm trying to work out the best way to proceed that doesn't end up in a CCJ or a home visit.

[Curlyben]

First off get a SAR into B'card and start reclaiming the charges.

There are bound to be alot over this time.

Next send a dispute notice to Lowells and tell them while this debt is in dispute no further action will be taken.

 

Once they start hasselling you for money then CCA them.

 

They'll say anything to make you pay.

The "we'll call" letters are the funniest as they NEVER do, and even if they do the you can tell them to naff off.

 

 

Also NEVER talk to them on the phone.

They'll try and get you to agree to anything.

Keep everything in writing for future use with TS and others.

 

Hope this helps.

Don't panic there IS light at the end of the tunnel.

[diskmandave]

Completely get where you're coming from!

 

CCA them first. Template here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162367

 

See what comes back and when it does keep us updated!

 

Have a read of my own Lowell thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/59620-diskmandave-lowell-finacial-capone.html

 

Best wishes & regards, Dave.

 

[chris223b]

Cheers for the advice guys, it's fortunate that I looked into this now - when the letter inevitably comes hopefully I'll be prepared.

 

The only thing of serious concern to me is that they somehow have my parent's landline phone number as a contact number for me. Past experience has shown me that such people only *add* contact numbers, they *never* delete them. Even if I confirm that I am not contactable on that number, and supply them a number that I can be contacted on (even if I never talk to them on it), I can easily see a situation developing where my parents are subjected to a barrage of calls asking for me.

 

Apart from the fact that they would seriously worry about the calls, this is *my* problem which *I* will deal with, and I don't want them having the annoyance of speaking to Lowells.

 

Is there a surefire way of stopping further calls being made to that number?

[gizmo111]

I suggest you contact the DCA and give them your new address. Only deal with them in writing. Check the balance they are claiming as after this amount of time it is bound to be made up of charges, which you cna reclaim. You need send Barclaycard an SAR to start this process.

Make an offer you can afford to pay monthly and set up a standing order - not a direct debit. As you say you spent it you owe it so now time to face up to it.

 

Good Luck

[chris223b]

Sorry if this is repeated elsewhere (there is a *huge* amount of information on this site), but I'd just like to check a few things. If I'm going to pay this, as well as trying to reduce the amount, I'm trying also to give myself as much time as possible to get the money together by making the process as slow as possible.

 

Sorry if I sound dumb, but when SARing Barclaycard, is that so that I can pursue a claim against Barclaycard to refund the charges whilst paying Lowells in full, or so that I can question the figure which Lowells come up with and use that as a basis for offering them less? Because the debt is now sold, I'm unsure whether any refunds will come from Barclaycard or Lowell's.

 

Is it best to CCA Lowells immediately to confirm their right to recover the debt or to hold fast and advise them that until receiving the information from Barclays the account is in dispute, before then CCAing them to confirm their right to collect it?

 

The replies in this and other threads are all useful, but seem to conflict slightly, suggesting that there are different ways of going about this.

 

As I'm not necessarily trying to absolve myself of the debt, merely pay back a fare amount and not a ridiculous one, and also to pay it on terms I can cope with, the following to me seems to be the best course of action (please someone correct me if they can see any holes in it or if there's anything I've not gotten right?):

 

• Get current contact details to Lowells, including a phone number. Always answer the phone (to prevent them falling back on my parents number), confirm the security questions, but then politely tell them that I am dealing with this matter in writing so will not discuss it over the phone.
  
• SAR Barclaycard to identify what debt I can be held to and what are claimable charges. Simultaneously advise Lowells that I dispute the debt and am awaiting an SAR from Barclaycard in order to be able to respond (although not mention what the dispute is or what the response will be). Advise Lowell's of the date by which Barclaycard must respond.
  
• Reply to any further letters during this time by reminding them of the previous letter(s) I have sent them and reminding them of the date by which Barclaycard must respond.
  
• (this is where I may be muddled). Following the SAR response, take overdue/overlimit charges away (or reduce them to a token amount) and identify a given figure as a payable debt. Writes to Lowells accepting that I owe someone that figure and request a CCA from Lowells to confirm that they are entitled to collect it. Do not pay anything until the CCA is confirmed.

and from then on, EITHER

• Lowells does not correctly comply, starting off the chain of events which will lead to TS intervention OR
  
• Lowells does correctly comply, at which point I advise them of a payment schedule I can afford and set up a standing order to deliver that. Reply to any demands for immediate payment of the full amount with a reminder that I am allready paying them what I can afford, reminding them of what I have allready paid and when the debt will be paid off.

This approach presumably means that I've done everything by the book in keeping my creditor informed of what is going on, and making payments once they have confirmed that they are entitled to them. In that case should they ever take me to court they have a slim case for arguing a CCJ.

 

Am I also right in thinking that they can only send a bailiff to collect on a defaulted CCJ, but cannot come around demanding payment or goods in person before the matter has gone to court and a CCJ has been issued?

[chris223b]

Update: I've drafted out a CCA in anticipation of the letter arriving. From reading up, I appear to be able to refuse to discuss the matter at all until seeing a copy of the credit agreement, so have pre-emptively told them not to ring me or write to me unless it's with the documentation. Does this look about right anyone? (sorry for all the plagarism too lol) Also, is there any value at all in letters being witnessed?

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I received your letter dated xx June 2007 alleging that you have purchased an alleged debt of £xxxx from Barclaycard plc.

At the present time I do not recognise or acknowledge any debt to your company. I require you to supply (and am entitled by law to receive) the following documentation under the terms of terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974:

• A true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to.
  This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under
  the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 -
  (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit).
  I enclose a cheque to the value of £1 in payment of the statutory fee. This is not to
  be applied as any kind of payment to the alleged debt.

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement

that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the

original creditor or not under S189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Non-compliance with this request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will

result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

I will not correspond further on this matter before the above documentation is provided. Persistant demands, by telephone, letter, or otherwise without providing the proper documentation would be a breach of Section 40 of The Administration of Justice Act 1970 and any further incidents of this nature would constitute a course of conduct, which is a criminal offence under Section 2 of The Prevention from Harassment Act 1997.

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance would also consider this to be unacceptable.

Should this occur, I shall have no hesitation in reporting the matter to The Office of Fair Trading and to Trading Standards.

[chris223b]

OK, (almost) 1 month on, this is the update. The matter is still unresolved, and I've still had nothing in writing, it does seem to have been moved from 1 DCA to another and back again though, which seems odd.

 

Last month, I decided to go with the general advice and correspond only by letter - except the letter didn't come.

 

A few days later, a further phone call from Lowell's was received, again at my parents house. I did try ringing them back this time, but was told that they are closed after 7PM.

 

All went quiet, so again I left it waiting for the letter...which didn't come.

 

The following week, my parents received another phone call, this time from an outfit called 'Credit Security'. They were extremely aggressive, making 5 phone calls in a day, and even though my parents confirmed that I don't live there and wasn't available on this number they asserted that they would continue to ring my parents until they provide an alternative number for me.

 

When my dad reminded them that he is on the TPS and as the matter is nothing to do with him, and as the person the DCA was seeking was not connected with the number, then further calls from them would constitute unsolicited calls, the DCA laughed and announced that they'd continue to call the number.

 

Deciding that I now had to sort this out, I rang the number which came up on my parent's caller ID for Credit Security...this number didn't exist.

 

Now over a week since the original call, still no letter arrived for me.

 

Despite the threats made, there were no further calls from Credit Security, and everything went quiet for well over 2 weeks - until today, when another call from Lowells was received, this time with an 0845 number showing up on the caller ID.

 

I rang this number back, only to get a recorded message that Lowell's closed at 5PM (when the previous message on their Leeds direct dial number said 7PM).

 

So now, 4 weeks have passed and nothing in writing has been received, and enquiries have been made from 2 different DCAs who don't appear willing to be contacted. And despite Credit Security's aggressive stance, it only lasted a day and they've never been heard from since.

 

Any ideas anyone?

[lemma1968]

Did you send them a CCA credit agreement request and an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)? You said you were going to.

[Goldlady]

Lowells have abandoned two of my alleged debts after CCA requests. You should get a letter of farewell from them soon I would hope.

[Curlyben]

Nice one Goldlady.

See easy isn't it.

[ODC]

Just a small point. As has already been stated Clownells will NEVER call at your parents house. They will probably get one of Clownells childish yellow postcards saying Sorry you were Out we will call again. As for them removing property. With an alleged debt so small thi is simply not going to happen.

 

What Clownells have done in fact by their aggressive attitude and those of 1st Credit have made you decide that a debt which you were going to pay off is now unenforceable and you will probably be able to write it off. What a wunch of bankers

[Dispirited]

Hi Chris

 

I have exactly rthe same problem with my son's DCAs. It seems that some have deleted my telephone number after many requests from him, but others haven't, Black Horse included. My advice is firstly, keep off the telephone and advise your parents to hang up *immediately* if they get any further calls. Don't speak to them ever again, make them take everything to letter.

 

Louiboy came to my aid yesterday and gave me a copy of a letter for my son to send to his DCA, on account of they keep ringing me:

 

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Account Number: xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

 

 

I enclose a copy of my Dispute Notice for your perusal.

 

Despite my letter regarding ANY communication from your company, which stated that I require ALL communications in writing, your telephone calls continue.

 

 

This behaviour constitutes harassment; the letters stated quite clearly to you that I require ALL communications in writing for future use. Do not telephone me again - remove any telephone numbers you hold for me from your systems.

 

Your telephone calls are in breach of the Office of Fair Trading guidelines. If you continue with them after the receipt of this letter an official complaint, together with a log recording the times and frequency of the calls will be passed both to that office and to the Trading Standards office. For your information note that ALL telephone calls are taped.

 

This type of debt collection method is contrary to the ‘Administration of Justice Act 1970’ in that it is intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. Your methods will not be tolerated. A formal complaint, containing copies of all correspondence including yours, has now been submitted to the relevant authorities. This will be relevant to questions of your fitness to hold a licence under the Consumer Credit Act, whether or not it results in a prosecution.

 

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

 

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

 

HOWEVER, CALLS WILL TRIGGER COMPLAINTS TO THE REGULATORY BODIES.

 

I trust that I have made myself understood on this matter,

 

Yours faithfully

 

--------------------------

 

Also, this is a copy of the letter I'm sending to my DCA who keep ringing me:

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Harassment by telephone

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

In my letter to you dated 11 July 2007, I requested that all communications to me be made in writing, but I am still getting calls and have received at least ....... since notifying you.

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

-------------------------

 

Hope this helps. If they don't comply, report them.

[Dispirited]

PS, Chris, read this thread, it may help you. Rory has posted a sample letter after a DCA failed to respond to a request for CCA.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/104731-mckenzie-hall-not-responded.html

[chris223b]

Hi guys, thanks for the advice. Here's the latest update on this so far non-written saga

 

Almost 5 weeks on, still nothing has been received in writing.

 

I assumed originally that they must have found my address and then used looked the phone number up, but thinking back now I quite possibly gave them the phone number when originally applying, as it was the only landline I had access to.

 

As I was a student at the time of applying, I could still hold onto my parent's address - therefore pretty much all publicly searcheable records such as the electoral role will not tie me to the last address Barclaycard had. Indeed even a PNC check will not tie me to that address as my driving licence has never been changed.

 

Being that so long has gone by and not a single thing has been received in the post, I'm beginning to believe that the DCA doesn't have a clue where either myself or my parents live and has never been succesful in finding out - they're simply ringing previously known numbers in order to try and track me down.

 

Is it anyone else's experience that such a long period of time goes by without a written demand of some sort being made?

 

Did you send them a CCA credit agreement request and an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)? You said you were going to.

Yep, I was going to - the letter was ready and all, but that was on the basis that I had been located (or at least my parents had) and therefore I had to do something about it.

 

Until and unless something comes in writing, I'm reluctant to do anything. Any chance at all I have of building a credit rating before I'm 30 is dependant on this DCA never appearing on my credit file - and I can quite feasibly omit the previous address because my electoral role entry (along with any records of a couple of PNC checks when I got pulled over whilst driving) will support it.

 

Even if I volunteer my details so that I can sort this matter out and know it will never show it's head again, so many posts on this site suggest that the DCAs are such nasty and unaccomodating people to deal with that I may well create a bigger headache for myself by playing ball with them than I have at present.

 

If they find me then my CCA request and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) requests are still ready and waiting to go, but I'm beginning to doubt that they ever will - if not through impossibility then because it would be unviably expensive.

 

Yes morally I can't argue with the debt - but then again morally I've allready paid back the actual amount I borrowed (along with interest) more than once - it's only the ruthless way in which charges were applied to the account for the lifetime of my having it which meant I still owed money last summer - I'd not actually used the card at all for a year before that!

[Dispirited]

Hi guys, thanks for the advice. Here's the latest update on this so far non-written saga

 

Almost 5 weeks on, still nothing has been received in writing.

 

 

Is it anyone else's experience that such a long period of time goes by without a written demand of some sort being made?

 

 

Errr, yes..... 4 years, 5 years, but they'll find you.

 

 

Until and unless something comes in writing, I'm reluctant to do anything.

 

Your choice Chris, but it's not the route I'd choose.

 

 

Any chance at all I have of building a credit rating before I'm 30 is dependant on this DCA never appearing on my credit file -

 

You're taking a gamble...

 

 

Even if I volunteer my details so that I can sort this matter out and know it will never show it's head again, so many posts on this site suggest that the DCAs are such nasty and unaccomodating people to deal with that I may well create a bigger headache for myself by playing ball with them than I have at present.

 

 

But you won't be playing ball with them, you'll be taking charge of a debt which you acknowledge is yours. You will be calling the shots.

 

 

If they find me then my CCA request and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) requests are still ready and waiting to go, but I'm beginning to doubt that they ever will - if not through impossibility then because it would be unviably expensive.

 

Shakes head in amazement.

 

 

 

Yes morally I can't argue with the debt - but then again morally I've allready paid back the actual amount I borrowed (along with interest) more than once - it's only the ruthless way in which charges were applied to the account for the lifetime of my having it which meant I still owed money last summer - I'd not actually used the card at all for a year before that!

 

 

So fight for your rights then, and claim those charges back!