Barclays claim paid out, pay to RMA?

[katierabbit]

A few years ago I took a loan from Barclays to pay off a credit card debt. I subsequently took out a top up loan a couple of years later. This second loan was taken whilst I was unwell and the sale was made over the phone and then documentation sent to sign. I did not believe at the time that I suffered from a 'pre-existing condition' and so did not declare anything. (I was off work with a 'stress' and believed I would return to work shortly.

 

However, my health deteriorated to a point where I lost my job and whilst I may have had a case under the Disability Discrimination Act I did not pursue it as if I had my employer would've withheld my last paycheck whilst the matter was in dispute. I had rent to pay so decided to just let it go. By this time I had been diagnosed bipolar and wasn't in any state to take on further stress.

 

During this time I defaulted on my loan repayments to Barclays (my memory of this is somewhat hazy due to my health at this time) and eventually the debt was passed onto RMA. This was in 2003. That summer I suffered much harrassment from them as has been very well documented in this forum and they ignored requests from my local CAB to deal in writing with them. I have sent in financial statements and paid them £5 per month since then. Recently they just call every 6 months or so, I say my situation hasn't changed and they carry on taking their £5.

 

At this time I also made an insurance claim to Barclays as I had bought PPI with the loan. This was refused on the grounds of my condition being pre-existing, despite it not being diagnosed until after the loan was taken.

 

Last year RMA offered me a £3,000 discount if I could pay within 90 days, which I could not. Then I received a letter from Barclays Insurance saying their loan terms and conditions had changed and they would look at my claim again. They were referred to my doctor and again the claim was refused. It seemed very odd to me that they could reconsider a claim, surely the terms and conditions signed at the time stand? Anyway.

 

By sheer chance I came acroos the Financial Ombudsman and when I made an official complaint against Barclays Insurance I almost instantly received a letter saying the Underwriters were now able to pay out on the original loan for the term 2001 - 2006 but not the top up loan which was taken in January 2003 because of my condition being 'pre-existing'. I had to confirm that I'd not worked for period and was paid £125 per month as per the agreed repayments. This came to £4,700.

 

When Barclays Insurance paid out they asked me if I wanted it paid into my current account, or to the existing loan account. Now I don't think I have a loan account with Barclays, they ceased doing business with me and closed my account back in 2003. I'm sure they debt has been sold to RMA. Clearly I asked for the money to be paid into my current account (with the Co-op).

 

Here's the thing. I've been a bit naughty and paid off my La Redoute catalogue account of £700 because it was costing me too much per month etc etc etc. This leaves £4000. What to do? Am I bound to pay RMA? They have already reduced the £10k debt by their offer to reduce to £7k. Should I ring to make an offer of full and final settlement of say 25%? Should I send in a CCA request and hope they don't have it thus making the debt unenforceable?

 

I don't think they're charging interest and I've no idea how much left I've got to pay after nearly 4 years of £5 per month.

 

Any advice would be most welcome! Sorry for the lengthy essay but I felt all details were necessary.

[rory32]

If you want to make a full and final you should really start negotiating at around 10%. You have been on reduced payments for a few years now, so have more scope to negotiate.

 

You should tell them that this is a one off opportunity which is time limited. You only have x amount of money to spare and will require acceptance of this as a full and fonal settlement of the loan in writing with no strings attached.

 

Alternatively, if you want to send them a CCA request go right ahead - this will probably only strengthen your position.

 

Do not negotiate over the phone. Everything can later be denied. Only communicate via writing.

[katierabbit]

Many thanks Rory. I'm keen to get rid of the nasty b*stards asap, it's been a long 4 years!

[katierabbit]

Sorry Rory, to clarify, 10% of the whole debt (£10k) or 10% of their offer to reduce (£7k). Thanks so much for your help.

[rory32]

It would be 10% of the whole debt (£10K).

[katierabbit]

Thanks again ;-)

[Guest ConsumersRevenge]

if your condition was not diagnosed, i would chase the PPI. if they will refuse to pay still, i would write to the Financial Ombudsman service. I would also write to barclays asking them why they are recommending PPI products from a company as d***y as themselves! Thats like me not being covered after being hit by a bus, reason being, the bus was built before your policy started. ridiculous.

[katierabbit]

It is all quite ridiculous, you're right! For now I've sent off my CCA request and not had a squeak out of RMA so fingers crossed I'll be cash up soon. I really did expect them to be straight on the phone so it's a bit of a surprise. The FO were very useful in the first instance so I know I can always go back to them if things don't get sorted this time. I even have a letter from the psychiatrist who diagnosed me to back up my argument. I've read up alot on the web about what a racket Barclays PPI is. It even got to the point that my lady at the CAB sent my photocopies of articles from The Guardian about Barclays Insurance Dublin basically being a tax dodge and that they never pay out! Many thanks for your reply, I'll let you know how I get on...

[katierabbit]

RMA / NCO's 12 days are now up and not a peep out of them. Neither a letter nor a phone call. Things are looking rosy!

[Curlyben]

I know that RMA/NCO love to ignore letters, so it comes as no surprise that they have ignored your CCA.

Oh well their lose.

They now try and scare you with legal threats, so time to make sure everything is logged and get ready to file a report with Trading Standards. Once thses threats start appearing just respond with their noncompliance of CCA untill the extra month is up. Then talk to TS, but not before.

I have found TS great to work with. Treat them in a professional manner and they will return the favour. Rant and rave and they'll be a pain.

RMA/NCO have defaulted on my CCA as well and now they are panicing as TS is on their case, and to top it all the debt is unenforceable

[katierabbit]

Thanks Ben for the advice. Sounds like your situation is looking promising, best of luck!

[katierabbit]

Well, I've just had my first phone call from RMA. They received my CCA request on 18 June so I'm already halfway into the 30 day period. Luckily I recognised their landline (01772 940 000) and they just left a voicemail automated message to return their call. Not likely! I've made a note of the date and time of the call and will continue to do so until 30 July when the debt becomes unenforceable.....

[katierabbit]

Can anyone advise re this latest development please? I've received a letter this morning from Colemans - CTTS solicitors of 1-3 Union St, Kingston upon Thames entitled 'Notice Before Legal Proceedings'. It demands that I settle the outstanding amount of £x to RMA by 31 July 2007 or they will issue court proceedings for recovery of the full amount plus costs.

 

I'm guessing this means they don't have the credit agreement (31 July is also the last day of the calendar month they have available before the debt becomes unenforceable).

 

Should I just sit tight and do nothing, or write a letter to the solicitors and RMA reminding them the account is in dispute as a result of them not complying with my CCA request?

 

Any advice more than welcome, thanks.

[katierabbit]

Please see last post, any advice welcome, many thanks.

[Curlyben]

OK so your CCA has been sent and they are playing silly games.

So send the sols this:

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Your Ref : xxxxx

 

Your Client : XXXX

 

I refer to your letter of xx/xx/2007, which was received today.

 

Frankly, I am surprised of the need to remind a firm of solicitors about the terms and conditions surrounding my Consumer Credit Agreement request (Consumer Credit Act, 1974); received by XX DCA XX on xx/xx. I can only assume therefore that they failed to inform you.

 

Should your client now persist with threats of legal action as stated in your letter, I will welcome the opportunity for a judge to look at several offences committed by XXX DCA XX under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974, as well as your client’s non-compliance with and total disregard for the law on this occasion.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Should keep them quiet for a bit.

 

Also as RMA are getting close to the 12+month, it's time to get all your documentation together for a report to Trading Standards.

 

Now the best way to play this is wait until they demand payment after the deadlines expire then call TS.

Now TS have a very difficult job, so it's best to be calm and professional while dealing with them.

Ranting and raving and demanding action will get you no where fast.

 

Surprisingly enough after I called TS and informed RMA about it they have left me alone.

[katierabbit]

Ace! Thanks Ben. By the way, the 'solicitor's' letter looks a bit suspect to me, I'm sure it's just RMA's lot on the quiet. I'll drop them a line as above and see what occurs.... Thanks again.

 

Just Googled them and it turns out they specialise in debt recovery:

 

"We are a Legal 500 and Chambers & Partners UK accredited specialist Debt Recovery Firm, where external commentators say that our reliability and longstanding relationships with our clients are the hallmarks of our service and reputation.

Our core specialist debt collection teams based in Kingston upon Thames & Manchester actively advise clients on collection strategy and processes in respect of both consumer and commercial debt recovery.

We provide both "pre-legal" collection services on commission or fixed fee structures and "litigation" collection services including insolvency proceedings as well as dispute handling and insolvency proceedings. At all times we work closely with our clients in order to set up cost effective and efficient strategies and processes to enhance recoveries."

[Curlyben]

That'll be rent-a-nasty then

 

Send them the letter anyway.

[babybear39]

Hi katierabbit ,

 

Just subscribing...

 

They seem to like the word insolvency a lot don't they

 

Good luck and best wishes,

 

BB

[Hopeful1]

Hi Katierabbit!

 

In my recent experience, the solicitors don't seem to be aware of what the DCAs are doing. I've sent letters similiar to Curlyben's and they've soon backed off. When BCW's solicitors responded they'd taken all links to BCW off their letter eg outstanding balance, ref. number etc

 

Good luck

[katierabbit]

Thanks all above. I sent the letter yesterday and it's been received today so we'll see what happens. Hopefully this time next week will be in the clear...

[reduk054]

Katie, also subscribing. Colemans-ctts wrote through to me suggesting court action, and I sent the letter from Curlyben which appeared to work a treat (am very greateful as was getting stressed)

I have stopped all of my payments to RMA following their non-compliance of CCA request, and as soon as the calender month was up I contacted TS (which turned out in my area to be Consumer Direct), and they passed my complaint on to the OFT, and I have send a bundle of letters, logged calls and calling cards from RMA to back up my case.

At the moment all is quiet, so my support is with you and hope that your case also follows a similar route to where mine is going (i.e. a little bit of peace and quiet!)

Best of luck!

Red

[katierabbit]

Many thanks Red!

 

I've had no response to my letter to Colemans CTTS that was sent last week but today I've received a letter from RMA themselves. The letter is dated 25 July but was only received today, the last day of my 30 days. All the letter says is 'Please call, we have a proposal for you'. Now clearly I'm not going to call so do I reply to them 'Please put your proposal in writing so I can consider it' (they obviously don't have my CCA) or do I write something like Tifo's letter:

 

 

"I refer to my letter dated {enter date} which was delivered via Recorded Delivery to your offices on {enter delivery date}.

 

You have failed to acknowledge this request in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the letter or by supplying the requested documents. The documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account.

 

In my letter of the {enter date} I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under Section 77(1) and Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and a true signed copy of the Deed of Assignment. In addition a full statement of my account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account from the time {debt agency name} purchased this account, along with any other documents mentioned in the credit agreement.

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, as defined under Section 189 of the CCA 1974.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, your company commit an offence. These time limits expired on {enter date} and {enter date} respectively.

 

As you are no doubt aware, Section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore on {enter offence date} this account became unenforceable at law and no further payment will be made by myself to the account, as you have failed to comply with a request for a true signed copy of the said agreement, and other relevant documents mentioned in it, and failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide a true copy of the Deed of Assignment, under the relevant sections of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Further, i do not acknowledge any debt to {debt agency name}.

 

I require the following action from {debt agency name} :

 

1. All payments made to date to {debt agency name} for this account should be refunded in full, including interest at the rate of 8% per annum.

 

2. Removal of all defaults entered by {debt agency name}. Note this is to be a complete deletion and not merely an amendment.

 

3. I look forward to compensation under Section 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to be offered for the processing of my data in the manner it has been done over the past number of years.

 

4. After a full refund of all payments with interest and compensation are received by myself, you will be required under Section 10 and Section 12 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to cease and desist all manual and automatic processing of my data within your company and any other company within your group.

 

If you do not respond positively to my request, court action may be taken under Section 14 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to force {debt agency name} or any other company within the group to comply with the refund of all monies paid, removal of all defaults maintained and compensation for damage and distress as a result of unlawful data processing. I may also pass the matter to the relevant enforcement authorities including, but not limited to, the OFT, the Information Commissioners Office, Trading Standards, the CSA, the FOS and my local MP.

 

I look forward to your reply within 14 days to resolve the matter amicably."

 

Link to thread here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/85030-what-letter-send-cca.html

 

They have never entered a default on my credit record so there's nothing to remove and to be honest, I'm not sure I can be @rsed to try to get approx. £250 back from them that I've paid over the past 4 years. I'd rather just be shot of the idiots.

 

Of course, if I get them to put their proposal in writing, I've got an even better case to go to TS / Financial Ombudsman / OFT since they'll be asking for money outside of the 30 days.

 

Any advice more than welcome!

[Curlyben]

Now I'd wait and see what RMA are going to do next.

You'll probably get bombarded with calls.

remember DON'T talk to them.

Now if the 12+month passes and they are still chasing you for payment then it's time to get Trading Standards involved.

 

Now when dealing with TS it's best to be calm and professional as ranting and raving and demanding action will get you nowhere fast.

[katierabbit]

So you're saying do nothing in response to their letter, Ben? Is it better to wait and see? The account is disputed and if they ask for anything that's dated beyond today they're committing an offence... I just thought it might be time already to respond with a letter as above?

[babybear39]

I agree with CB

 

TS aren't quick but they should help.

 

Good luck,

 

BB