BEWARE! Royal Mail "Recorded Delivery"

[MacBoy]

Barracad

 

I'm not being funny (or perhaps I am), but how come the only time we ever see you is when you come to berate us about Royal Mail matters - surely something that, although we enjoy discussing it, is fairly secondary to the object of the forum; and in any case a matter surely of personal preference and/or budget?

 

It's also fair to say that you've been conspicuous by your absence when any of the folks you've been barracking here have been appealing for help or feedback from a moderator or more 'senior and learned' forum member, on an important or technical item.

 

We're all on the same side here - let's try and be friendly and get on?

[bally35]

The Trade Descriptions Act 1968 makes it an offence for a trader to apply, by any means, false or misleading statements, or to knowingly or recklessly make such statements about services

 

From the royal mail site

 

"If you have an important item to deliver, our Recorded Signed For™ service gives you complete peace of mind with proof of posting, signature on delivery and online tracking so you can follow the progress of your delivery.

 

• Proof of posting
  
• Signature on delivery
  
• Online tracking
  
• Up to £34 compensation
  
• Prices from 70p plus normal postage

With Recorded Signed For™, you get next day delivery with most First Class items. And if you’re an account customer, we’ll pick up your items from your business. "

 

 

The fact is that they have only acknowledged receiving say 132 items, they do not acknowledge, your specific item of mail, which is what you have paid for.

Therfeore the receipt and all the documentation that one receives with this service is in breach of the above

[kennythecelt]

Well,

 

at least they won't be breaching the Trades Description Act today!

They will start back at it again tomorrow!8)

[MacBoy]

I'd say that was a fairly spot-on summation of what's going on Bally. Well done - nicely researched contribution.

[bally35]

I would have also thought that there was a contract, even with ordinary post.The contract would be entered into by means of you putting stamp on and posting in post box.Royal Mail are then under legal obligation to deliver the mail to the address on the item.

[Isiris]

Fair enough - your choice.

 

But for quite a number of us other CAGERS - we feel safer coughing up the extra dosh!

 

Thats fair and good but for me, the only piece of postage that has a legal time limit on it is the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). If you have proof positive that it has been signed for there is no defence.

 

The Prelim and LBA while dated and allowing them 14 days to respond, if they claim not to have it yet you can prove it has been sent by a cerificate of postage, they would be very hard pressed to claim they hadnt received either.

 

The Royal Mail DO offer compensation, it is up to 100 times the price paid for postage

[Isiris]

And then to be 100% honest, we all have internet (or wouldnt be on here) just email the letter to their email address. You receive an auto response within 5 mins of sending. WHY use the mail

[kennythecelt]

Hi Isiris,

 

re e mail. BoS are very reluctant to divulge e mail addresses for specific teams/ individuals. They say it is an internal system.

 

I would love to send the individuals/ teams an email!! I will try and work out their protocol for e mail allocation.

 

Cheers!

[MacBoy]

Isiris

Not sure I can completely agree with you about the autoresponder necessarily providing proof of delivery. The trouble with email in my opinion for this type of correspondence, is that there's still too much scope for excuses from the banks.

 

All an autoresponder tells you is that 'the mail that you sent has reached our mailserver'. There are far too many potential fob-offs (and lets face it the Banks are masters of the fob off!), and things that could go wrong in between, for this to offer the same reassurance as a signature on a proof of delivery to the physical address concerned.

 

I'm certainly no Luddite (far from it), but I don't quite think we've reached the stage yet, where an email has quite the same currency as a physical piece of snail-mail

[kennythecelt]

You are right!

[barracad]

Barracad

 

I'm not being funny (or perhaps I am), but how come the only time we ever see you is when you come to berate us about Royal Mail matters - surely something that, although we enjoy discussing it, is fairly secondary to the object of the forum; and in any case a matter surely of personal preference and/or budget?

 

It's also fair to say that you've been conspicuous by your absence when any of the folks you've been barracking here have been appealing for help or feedback from a moderator or more 'senior and learned' forum member, on an important or technical item.

 

We're all on the same side here - let's try and be friendly get on?

 

I'm not trying to berate anybody - I'm advising people not to use Recorded Delivery, as you end up with problems like this.

 

As for your other suggestion - I have over 6,000 posts - are you suggesting they are all about Royal Mail.

 

 

Other comments - If you get a signature for the item then they HAVE given you a signature for the item, I really don't get what difference it makes how many other items were delivered at the same time - the key point is you get a signature for YOUR item.

 

Also, Recorded Delivery is a service provided under the Postal Services Act 2000 and, as such, is not contractual. Therefore there is no contract which can be breached.

[Isiris]

Isiris

Not sure I can completely agree with you about the autoresponder necessarily providing proof of delivery. The trouble with email in my opinion for this type of correspondence, is that there's still too much scope for excuses from the banks.

 

All an autoresponder tells you is that 'the mail that you sent has reached our mailserver'. There are far too many potential fob-offs (and lets face it the Banks are masters of the fob off!), and things that could go wrong in between, for this to offer the same reassurance as a signature on a proof of delivery to the physical address concerned.

 

I'm certainly no Luddite (far from it), but I don't quite think we've reached the stage yet, where an email has quite the same currency as a physical piece of snail-mail

 

Mac

 

The law recognises email as a recognised means of service. Same as mail.

If you save the mail to your "sent" folder then when you receive the Autoresponse file both in a seperate folder.

 

I am not too concerned whether they say they receive it or not as long as I CAN SHOW I have sent it.

[MacBoy]

Entirely fair point Isiris.

I guess where I'm coming from is the 'personal peace of mind' aspect of the physical proof of a signature and the fact that there is really no right or wrong way to handle this - it's matter of personal preference...BUT - if you are going to go for a RM premium product, then Special Delivery as opposed to the others, is surely the way to go. :D

[bally35]

aye but this service says that you can track and trace onlone.The fact is that noone has signed for YOUR item and therefore cannot be traced.

So when we ring customer services they respond by telling us that the item has not been delivered.

We know it probably has, but we have not received the service we requested.

Why when I receive a recorded signed for item , I must be available to sign for it, but other instiutions only have to sign and agree to the NUMBER of items?.

Is there anywhere within that where they acknowledge that yours is one of them and if so why the hell can that not be traced?

 

Postwatch (ombudsman), in Northern Ireland apparently believes that recorded signed for is not a guaranteed service (whatever the hell that means eg can they throw it over the hedge if they so wish).

Does the Trades Description Act not apply to the Royal Mail either.

O h and I do belive that there is an Ombudsman for the postal service!!!

[MacBoy]

Bally - I've got proofs of signature on the two Special Delivery items I sent (well, semi-legible scribbles anyway), but not the 'Signed for' one - all that one gives me on the website is 'come back later' - I sent it 3 months ago and it did actually get there...useless!

[bally35]

how can Postwatch help?

 

Postwatch understands what Royal Mail and any other licensed providers have to do to comply with their licence. If there is a failure to comply, Postwatch can refer the matter to Postcomm (the Regulator) with a request for enforcement action to be taken. Alternatively, Postwatch can discuss the issue direct and gain agreement as to what remedial action will be undertaken.

Postwatch also helps to further the interests of customers by monitoring service levels and complaints. Such monitoring reveals weak spots that can be drawn to Royal Mail's attention. This helps to improve services.

It's useful if you think about what you would like to happen to resolve your complaint - are you seeking an apology, an investigation or compensation?

If you want to complain about Postwatch, speak or write in the first instance to the manager of your local regional office (using the link, complain to your local office, above). The Code of Practice on Complaints Handling in Postwatch (Currently under review) gives full details of the process starting from page 8.

who can Postwatch help?

 

Both large and small customers - businesses and domestic. Postwatch has special interests in supporting the disabled and chronically ill customers, pensioners and those who live in rural areas or who are on low incomes.

how do I complain?

 

If you do not feel confident about approaching Royal Mail or any other licenced postal provider with your complaint, we will help you. We will 'hold your hand' from start to finish. If you would like Postwatch to help you to make a complaint, please complain online.

[barracad]

aye but this service says that you can track and trace onlone.The fact is that noone has signed for YOUR item and therefore cannot be traced...

 

Why when I receive a recorded signed for item , I must be available to sign for it, but other instiutions only have to sign and agree to the NUMBER of items?.

Is there anywhere within that where they acknowledge that yours is one of them

 

Ah right, I think I get your point... crossed wires!

 

Yes they do acknowledge that they are signing for your item. They don't just sign a document that says "we received 200 items today" as that would just be pointless as nobody would know what items they were for!

 

I think the process is something like this: For smaller deliveries (maybe up to about 20?? items or so) they have a card similar to the one you sign for an individual item, but with all the barcodes stuck on the card and they sign the bottom to say they have received all the above items. For larger deliveries, they get a printout with a list of all the item numbers and then sign to say they have received these items - but only one signature is needed for the whole delivery.

 

I thought you were seriously suggesting that some poor secretary somewhere would have to sign and sign her name 200 times for 200 individual items - now that would be madness! So in short, yes, they do sign for your item, albeit at the same time as signing for other items.

[Dusary]

As for using 'registered' post I have no idea what you're on about - there has been no registered post service in this country for donkeys years - you must mean either recorded or special delivery.

 

I think that if you go back to my original post you will see that I made clear reference to *SIGNED FOR* (orange sticker) - which used to be known as *RECORDED DELIVERY* - and *SPECIAL DELIVERY* (silver sticker) - which used to be known as *REGISTERED POST*.

 

Indeed, when I go to my local Post Office - they always use the old terminology.

 

Perhaps the good news from the South has not yet reached the North!

[Dusary]

The Trade Descriptions Act 1968 makes it an offence for a trader to apply, by any means, false or misleading statements, or to knowingly or recklessly make such statements about services

 

From the royal mail site

 

"If you have an important item to deliver, our Recorded Signed For™ service gives you complete peace of mind with proof of posting, signature on delivery and online tracking so you can follow the progress of your delivery.

• Proof of posting
  
• Signature on delivery
  
• Online tracking
  
• Up to £34 compensation
  
• Prices from 70p plus normal postage

With Recorded Signed For™, you get next day delivery with most First Class items. And if you’re an account customer, we’ll pick up your items from your business. "

 

 

The fact is that they have only acknowledged receiving say 132 items, they do not acknowledge, your specific item of mail, which is what you have paid for.

Therfeore the receipt and all the documentation that one receives with this service is in breach of the above

 

 

Thank you!

 

Good point!

[bally35]

Aye, but is there no way that the sytem can pick thse up to enable us to track and trace?

Alternatively there should be an advice on the forms from royal mail along the lines of " depending on the size and capacity of the receiving organisation , you may not be able to have an individual signature for the item you are sending"

Its a severe glitch in the system and misguides customers who belive that they will be able to track their item.

It needs sorting out

[Dusary]

Other comments - If you get a signature for the item then they HAVE given you a signature for the item, I really don't get what difference it makes how many other items were delivered at the same time - the key point is you get a signature for YOUR item.

 

As a point of interest -

 

I DID NOT, repeat NOT, get any signatures on Track Back for the 3 recorded Signed For letters that mysteriously disappeared.

 

How could I, since they HAD disappeared?

 

If my letters were in or part of a batch of 135 received in that delivery and Royal Mail had agreed that it was OK for the recipient to sign the very last entry - then there is NO proof that MY letter in that batch HAD been received!

[kennythecelt]

Aye, but is there no way that the sytem can pick thse up to enable us to track and trace?

Its a severe glitch in the system and misguides customers who belive that they will be able to track their item.

It needs sorting out

 

The banks have a similar problem with their internal procedures and thats probably what causes us problems with them. And it misguides us, their customers.

 

That needs sorting as well !!!

[MacBoy]

Just for the record - here's what shows online for my 'Recorded-Signed For' letter sent to them threee months ago, and which arrived:

 

 

Some service, huh?

[kennythecelt]

That was wizard!!!

[Dusary]

How did you do that? I tried to when I started all *this* off!

 

I'm not scanning - posting it in the weblog and inserting a link!!!!