Cabot/hudsons claimform - old barclaycard debt

[joghuj]

The claim was from Cabot.

Both letters were send special delivery to Cabot and they have received them. I cannot be certain that they have passed them to their solicitor though. When I sent the letters, Cabot had not informed me of any solictor acting for them and no soictor had contacted me until after I sent the letters.

[tomterm8]

I would wait a while for them to send the replies (if any). If they don't send you the required information, you would submit what i call a "placeholder" defence, basically saying they are naughty boys who haven't sent you any of the required information and have prevented you filing a proper defence, and asking the court to allow you to amend the defence latter.

 

the defence mentioned in 1970's post isn't really relevant (yet) as they haven't tried to claim they don't have the obligation to supply a credit agreement under the CCA 1974. In 1970's thread, they tried to claim this, but their logic just doesn't match up with reality.

 

Special delivery should get your response to the court the next day.

[elizabeth1]

The claim was from Cabot.

Both letters were send special delivery to Cabot and they have received them. I cannot be certain that they have passed them to their solicitor though. When I sent the letters, Cabot had not informed me of any solictor acting for them and no soictor had contacted me until after I sent the letters.

 

 

I am curious - who signed the claim form from Cabots? On the claim it will have a name & position of whoever sent it to you - can you read who it says by any chance?

[bbcoops]

I also had a court claim from Cabot.

sent cca to Cabots, when nothing arrived I wrote to the court and told them I felt Cabots were withholding information and therefore I could not form a defence, the court give them a time scale and still nothing arrived. The case was Struck Out. So all the best with this claim.

[joghuj]

Thanks for the encouragement Bbcoops, hopefully mine will go down the same path.

 

This morning I received this letter from Cabot, I think I've read similar stuff in other threads. The letter is addressed and signed from Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited, although refers to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited.

 

Any advice please anyone? I need to have my defense with the court by next Tuesday.

 

Thanks

We refer to the above referenced account.

 

Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, formerly Kings Hill (No. 1) Limited, which is part of the Cabot Financial group of companies, purchased your account from Barclaycard and therefore Cabot Financial (UK) Limited is the legal owner.

 

The rights but not the duties were assigned to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited in dealing with your account and therefore we are legally entitled to collect.

 

We will assist you in providing a copy of the agreement and statement of account but please note that we are not obliged to as we are not the creditor. In view of the fact that we are not the creditor we are also returning the fee of £1.00 to you as this is not applicable.

 

We will also arrange for a copy of the Notice of Assignment to be forwarded to you. This letter constitutes written notice of the assignment under Section 25 of the Law of Property Act and therefore we have no need to provide a copy of the assignment deed itself.

 

Finally, we would advise that you are misconceived and misadvised when suggesting that non-compliance with your request would be a criminal offence; the agreement would merely be unenforceable.

 

Yours Sincerely

Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited

[joghuj]

I am curious - who signed the claim form from Cabots? On the claim it will have a name & position of whoever sent it to you - can you read who it says by any chance?

 

Hi Elizabeth, the claim form was signed (printed) 'Cabot Financial (uk) limited'. The claimants section underneath is crossed out and I can't make out the name underneath.

 

Thanks

[Seahorse]

You need to make sure that any reference in your defence is to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, as it is they who are making the claim, as they think they are entitled to do as they claim to be the legal owner of your account.

 

Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited are a seperate company within the Cabot Group of Companies, and are the collecting arm of (UK), but don't own the account. They are in effect, Cabot Financial (UK) Limited's own in-house DCA. Although I suppose they would even dispute that.

[Seahorse]

What are you using in your defence, by the way? No need to say if you would rather keep it off forum just now.

 

But do have a look at this thread though...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/90012-just-been-court-cl-3.html#post951903

[joghuj]

What are you using in your defence, by the way? No need to say if you would rather keep it off forum just now.

 

But do have a look at this thread though...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/90012-just-been-court-cl-3.html#post951903

 

I'm not sure to be honest, I'm waiting for some advice from the forum.

[joghuj]

I would wait a while for them to send the replies (if any). If they don't send you the required information, you would submit what i call a "placeholder" defence....

 

I need to get my defence sent on Monday, can you give me some guidelines for what I need to write as a "placeholder" defence please.

 

Thanks

[tomterm8]

Sure. Can you post the particulars of claim?

[joghuj]

At the risk of sounding more stupid than I am, what do you mean by particulars?

[tomterm8]

DEFENCE

 

The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia:-

 

On DATE I requested the disclosure of information vital to this case from the claimant, in respect of each alleged debt the Claimant has failed to produce any of the information requested, and has informed me it will require as many as 8 or more weeks to furnish this information. The requested information includes copies of any default or termination notices, A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, alleged repayments by myself and payments made by the original creditor. Also any other documents the Claimant seeks to rely on.

 

 

It is clear that the claimant has no right to enforce any debt unless it is the creditor or owner of this debt. I put the claimant to strict proof that it is a creditor or owner of any debt owed by myself. The claimant has not even provided a copy of any document of assignment, and has informed me that it has not had the duties of any agreement assigned to it. Since this is the case, it is not a creditor or owner under the definition in s189(1) of the Consumer credit Act 1974 and has, therefore, no right to apply to the court to enforce this debt.

 

It is denied that any Default Notice in the prescribed format was ever received and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document was received.

 

It is clear that the claimant has not attempted to establish whether any default has actually taken place, since it has been unable to provide me with a copy of any credit agreement despite numerous requests for the supply of this vital information. The claimant states that I have refused to pay sums due; Despite requests, it has not explained under what terms of any agreement these sums were due and I put the claimant to strict proof of any default.

 

It seems that the claimant has not inspected any credit agreement, and so is not in a position to state that any monies are due under any credit agreement. If the claimant states that they have inspected such a credit agreement, I would ask why it was not provided to me as requested. Neither has the claimant provided a statement of account on request, detailing when payments are required to be made under the agreement, or explained under what terms of any alleged agreement these sums would fall due or what charges and interest have been added to the loan.

 

Further, the Defendant denies that he is liable to the Claimant as alleged in the Particulars of Claim, or at all. On DATE, a request for a true copy of the alleged agreement was sent to the Claimant’s Solicitors. These requests were made under section 78(1), running account credit, of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. It was sent by guaranteed next day delivery with the requisite £1.00 fee enclosed and received by the Claimant’s Solicitors on the DATE.The Claimants had twelve working days from receipt of the request in which to furnish a credit agreement, as stipulated in Regulation two of The Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983. This information has not been supplied, and even a legitimate creditor or owner would not be entitled to enforce this debt while this default continues.

 

Having instigated these proceedings without any legal basis for doing so, having failed to provide sufficient information required under the pre-trial protocols in order to investigate this claim, or indeed to provide a reasonable time period to investigate this matter, and having failed to investigate a dispute as required by the OFT Debt collection Guidelines I believe the Claimant’s conduct amounts to unlawful harassment under section 40 of The Administration of Justice Act. Furthermore, the Claimant’s behaviour is entirely vexatious and wholly unreasonable.

[tomterm8]

On the claim form, there is a section called "particulars of claim". it is what the claim is about.

[joghuj]

Particulars are;

The claimant is part of the Cabot Financial Group and has purchased the debt(s) scheduled below. Despite requests for payment the defendant has failed to pay the sum of £XX in relation to the defendant's

Royal bank of Scotland Visa account xx

Barclaycard Visa account xx

And the claimant claims: the sum of £XX together with interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984; and costs

[tomterm8]

Particulars are;

The claimant is part of the Cabot Financial Group and has purchased the debt(s) scheduled below. Despite requests for payment the defendant has failed to pay the sum of £XX in relation to the defendant's

Royal bank of Scotland Visa account xx

Barclaycard Visa account xx

And the claimant claims: the sum of £XX together with interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984; and costs

 

i take it both amounts are under £25,000?

 

(I've edited the defence slightly).

[joghuj]

Yes, both under £25,000. Thanks for the help again.

[joghuj]

I was thinking of adding something to the defence mentioning the fact that Hodsons didn't contact me threatening court action until after the court claim was issued! Would there be any benefit in this or not, something along these lines;

 

"The Claimant’s solicitor also failed to provide the Defendant with a proper notice of Court Proceedings. A letter dated 29th May 2007 from Hodsons Solicitors was received by the defendant on the 7th June. This letter requested payment within 7 days from letter date or Court proceedings will be issued. The County Court claim had already been received by the defendant, however, issued and received on the 1st June. There was, therefore, no possibility for the defendant to contact the Claimants solicitor prior to Court proceedings."

[tomterm8]

I was thinking of adding something to the defence mentioning the fact that Hodsons didn't contact me threatening court action until after the court claim was issued! Would there be any benefit in this or not, something along these lines;

 

"The Claimant’s solicitor also failed to provide the Defendant with a proper notice of Court Proceedings. A letter dated 29th May 2007 from Hodsons Solicitors was received by the defendant on the 7th June. This letter requested payment within 7 days from letter date or Court proceedings will be issued. The County Court claim had already been received by the defendant, however, issued and received on the 1st June. There was, therefore, no possibility for the defendant to contact the Claimants solicitor prior to Court proceedings."

 

I would write:

 

"The claimant failed to provide me with proper notice of proceedings, in order to investigate this claim. On 29th May 2007 from Hodsons Solicitors was received by the defendant on the 7th June. This letter requested payment within 7 days from letter date or Court proceedings will be issued.

 

This letter was not in the prescribed form for a default notice under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and did not give the proper notice period required in such a default notice. In any case, despite giving 7 days notice to rectify any alleged default, the Claimant issued its claim on or before 1st June.

 

Point 4.3© of the pre-trial protocols states that the claimant

"

ask for a prompt acknowledgement of the letter, followed by a full written response within a reasonable stated period;

 

 

(For many claims, a normal reasonable period for a full response may be one month.) "

 

and Point 4.3(a) and 4.3(b) require that such a letter:

 

"4.3 The claimant's letter should –

(a)give sufficient concise details to enable the recipient to understand and investigate the claim without extensive further information;

(b)enclose copies of the essential documents which the claimant relies on;"

 

No opportunity was given to me to investigate the claim. Further, the claimant failure to provide a copy of the credit agreement both with the initial claim letter, and after a reasonable request for disclosure despite its apparent statutory duty under the consumer credit act 1974 to provide the credit agreement or , if not the creditor, to request that the creditor supplies the credit agreement and to abide by the OFT Debt Collection Guidance which states that they must halt collection procedures while investigating a reasonable dispute.

 

The failure of the Claimant to abide by the process set out in the Pre-Action Protocols has made it impossible for me to investigate the matter, and has caused substantial prejudice to myself in that it has caused potentially unnecessary court proceedings and associated costs. It is therefore requested that the court use its discretionary powers under the civil procedure rules to set aside any request by the Claimant for costs in this matter and to award damages to compensate for any prejudice the court believes the claimants actions has caused me.

[joghuj]

Nice one Tomterm, worded just a bit better than mine! Do you think I should send copies of any correspondance with this defence or not?

[tomterm8]

Nice one Tomterm, worded just a bit better than mine! Do you think I should send copies of any correspondance with this defence or not?

 

I believe you submit it latter, with your court bundle.

[tomterm8]

Thanks for the encouragement Bbcoops, hopefully mine will go down the same path.

 

This morning I received this letter from Cabot, I think I've read similar stuff in other threads. The letter is addressed and signed from Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited, although refers to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited.

 

Any advice please anyone? I need to have my defense with the court by next Tuesday.

 

Thanks

 

We refer to the above referenced account.

 

Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, formerly Kings Hill (No. 1) Limited, which is part of the Cabot Financial group of companies, purchased your account from Barclaycard and therefore Cabot Financial (UK) Limited is the legal owner.

 

The rights but not the duties were assigned to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited in dealing with your account and therefore we are legally entitled to collect.

 

We will assist you in providing a copy of the agreement and statement of account but please note that we are not obliged to as we are not the creditor. In view of the fact that we are not the creditor we are also returning the fee of £1.00 to you as this is not applicable.

 

We will also arrange for a copy of the Notice of Assignment to be forwarded to you. This letter constitutes written notice of the assignment under Section 25 of the Law of Property Act and therefore we have no need to provide a copy of the assignment deed itself.

 

Finally, we would advise that you are misconceived and misadvised when suggesting that non-compliance with your request would be a criminal offence; the agreement would merely be unenforceable.

 

Yours Sincerely

Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited

 

Oh, yes, also this recorded delivery

 

In the matter of XXX Vs YYY

Claim Number XXX

In COURT NAME

 

DCA ADDRESS

 

YOUR ADDRESS

 

Dear Mr XXX,

 

I refer to your letter dated XXX, a copy of which is enclosed.

 

Please note that s25 of the Law of property act 1925 was repealed on 1.1.1997 ( I refer you to ch. 1996 c. 47, s. 25(2), Sch.4 (with ss. 24(2), 25(4)); S.I. 1996/2974, art. 2 ) .

 

I ask you under what right as an alleged equitable owner you pursue this claim, and refer you to the definition of owner for the purpose of the act as defined by s189(1) of The consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Yours Sincerly,

 

Your Name. (Type, don't sign. Centre & bold the header).

 

ENC - letter dated X.

[joghuj]

Cheers, I've just sent the defence off Special next day. I'll get this one to Cabot tomorrow.

[joghuj]

Oh, yes, also this recorded delivery

 

In the matter of XXX Vs YYY

Claim Number XXX

In COURT NAME

 

DCA ADDRESS

 

YOUR ADDRESS

 

Dear Mr XXX,

 

I refer to your letter dated XXX, a copy of which is enclosed.

 

Please note that s25 of the Law of property act 1925 was repealed on 1.1.1997 ( I refer you to ch. 1996 c. 47, s. 25(2), Sch.4 (with ss. 24(2), 25(4)); S.I. 1996/2974, art. 2 ) .

 

I ask you under what right as an alleged equitable owner you pursue this claim, and refer you to the definition of owner for the purpose of the act as defined by s189(1) of The consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Yours Sincerly,

 

Your Name. (Type, don't sign. Centre & bold the header).

 

ENC - letter dated X.

 

Tomterm, just so that I get the presentation correct as it may be important. DCA address, that's the court address or Cabot? This letter is sent to Cabot directly I presume?

And centre and bold just this part?

In the matter of XXX Vs YYY

Claim Number XXX

In COURT NAME

Sorry to ask simple questions but I'm getting a bit nervous about things now that the court is involved.

[joghuj]

Just been reading another thread and realised that "DCA" in this case is Cabot, think I'm OK with this letter now thanks.