Alphageek Vs GE Capital Woodchester "WON"

[Alphageek]

Yes. Their Complaints Handling Procedure basically says we will reply within 4 weeks. If we don't we might reply within 8 weeks and if can't make it back to you by then, well you'll have forgotten all about us won't you?

[Alphageek]

I gave them a further day as I have just moved house and I think the Royal Mail take a day longer to deliver mail under a re-direct.

 

Anyway, nothing from them so I am filling in my N1.

 

In the template library, the bit under Value says " Interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984 £xxx.xx" - My prelim and LBA I have said I am claiming 14% CCI.

 

Should I just re-word this bit or is the advice now not to go for CCI and just stick with s69 since that case was lost a few weeks back?

 

Also, I am guessing I don't need to write to GE and tell them of my change of address? I don't want them getting a Stay on a technicality.

[bleachyschick]

Hi Alphageek, I am just subscribing to your thread as I am about to begin the claim process against GE Capital Woodchester and you seem to be progressing nicely- Must say, I am looking forward to the fight- I have just won against Lloyds and have got the fire in my belly!!

Good luck with your claim- I am going to post my SAR today and will start my own thread to log progress.

[Alphageek]

Hi everyone, sorry I have been off the grid for a long time. I was abducted by aliens or something.

 

Anyway, I am back in the game now.

 

Will a claim against GE be treated like a bank case and a stay granted or should I get on with filing my N1 (I know I should have done it months ago :o )

 

And I am a little out of the loop on if I should change my claim to 8% stat or still try for CCI.

 

All advice appreciated.

[steven4064]

Hi everyone, sorry I have been off the grid for a long time. I was abducted by aliens or something.

Welcome back (to earth )

Will a claim against GE be treated like a bank case and a stay granted or should I get on with filing my N1

It should not be treatd like a bank claim and should not be stayed. If thecourt wants to stay it you can (and should strongly) object.

And I am a little out of the loop on if I should change my claim to 8% stat or still try for CCI.

That is completely up to you. In either case, make sure you claim any interest they added to the charges.

[Alphageek]

Thanks Steven. Nice to see you're still around.

[Alphageek]

I have seen some nice new POCs posted up here for most of the banks and CCard issuers.

 

The POC I filled in on the N1 before my "abduction" looks a little sad compared to the new ones.

 

Does anyone have a recommendation as to which one I should adapt for this GE Cap Wood case?

[steven4064]

Have a look at the one on my GE Money thread and see if that woulkd do. It might be easier than muckihng about with the new current account ones.

[Alphageek]

Just to keep the thread up to date.

 

I received this from them dated 1st Aug 2007;

 

01 August 2007

Dear Mr Geek

 

GE Capital Woodchester Account Number: x Our Ref: y

 

I write further to our letter dated 11 July 2007.

 

I am sorry that we are not in a position to resolve your complaint at this time. This is due to ongoing investigations.

 

I will contact you again within four weeks from the date of this letter. Thank you for your patience during this time.

 

In the meantime, should you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact me on my number below.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Ruth Ritchie

Customer Resolution Team

0870 125 2545

[Alphageek]

Then I got this dated 30th Aug 2007;

 

30 August 2007

Dear Mr Geek

 

GE Money Account Number: x Our Ref: y

 

I write further to our letter dated 01 August 2007.

 

Thank you for your patience whilst we have been reviewing your complaint.

 

The concerns you raised regarding the charges that have been incurred on the above agreement have now been investigated.

 

Firstly, please accept my sincere apologies for any inconvenience caused due to you not receiving a reply to your letter dated 12 June 2007. This has been noted for appropriate feedback.

 

We understand you are of the opinion that we are not entitled to charge the fees specified in your Credit Agreement. As requested please find enclosed a copy of you Terms and Conditions. May I advise that no changes have been made to these.

 

When you signed your Credit Agreement you agreed that your account would be subject to GE Money's standard Terms and Conditions of business. Those terms included fees, which would be applied to your account for defaults: late payment or a returned payment (a bounced cheque or returned Direct Debit), and certain charges on termination of this agreement.

 

The fees you refer to in your letter have been applied to your account in accordance with our standard Terms and Conditions. They are a core part of the terms on which we provide credit and are highlighted in the Key Information Section of your Credit Agreement.

 

The Office of Fair Trading's recent publication of its findings into default fee charges only applied to bank and credit cards and did not apply to auto finance. Our view remains that we are entitled to charge these fees and as these charges are also reflective of the banking and administration costs we incur due to late or unpaid payments, I am unable to honour your request by refunding the charges you have incurred.

 

Whilst I appreciate that this may not be the outcome you were expecting, I trust that I have addressed all of the concerns that you raised. If you do remain dissatisfied with our response you may refer the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. To do this you must refer the matter within six months from the date of this letter.

I enclose a copy of the Financial Ombudsman Service's explanatory leaflet.

 

Should you require any further information, please contact me on my number below.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Sarah Mates

Complaint Resolution Officer

0870 125 2545

Enc. FOS explanatory leaflet Enc. Copy of Terms and Condtions

[Alphageek]

Ok, POC won't fit on the back of the N1.

 

Do I just print my POCs on A4 and where it says "Particulars of claim (attached)(to follow)" just highlight (attached) and write in the box on the N1 'See attached'?

[Alphageek]

Hmm, ok I have figured out how to make Acrobat change the font size. It fits in at 8.3-point font.

 

Will that be too small?

[steven4064]

Hmm, ok I have figured out how to make Acrobat change the font size. It fits in at 8.3-point font.

 

Will that be too small?

Probably, unless you include a magnifying glass with your claim

 

Just print it in 12pt on a seperate sheet of paper and write "attached" in the box on the N1.

[Alphageek]

Thanks again Steven. I was worried about the Judge's eye-sight

[Alphageek]

Would some kind soul (hi Steven ) please check my POC makes sense... I am not entirely convinced it does!

 

Brief details of claim

Repayment of charges and interest on amounts charged by the defendant and debited to an account with the claimant for purported breaches of a contract to supply credit services. The claimant avers that these charges and the interest thereon were levied against him in contravention of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

 

The Claimant claims:

a) the return of amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £xxx.00

a) the return of the interest of £xxx.xx charged on amounts debited in respect of charges.

b) Court costs

Particulars of claim

1. The Claimant had an account 0000000000 ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around xx xxx 20xx and closed on or around xx xxx 20xx.

 

2. During the period in which the Account was operating the Defendant automatically debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account were punitive in nature; were not a genuine pre-estimate of costs incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of

i) the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 particularly but not limited to Regulations 5, 6 and 8 and Schedule 2, 1 e); and

ii); the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, particularly but not limited to sections 3 and 11 and Schedule 2 and

iii) the common law relating to liquidated damages and penalties in contracts.

 

5. To the extent that it is found that the Defendant’s charges are for the provision of credit services the Claimant contends that the price thereof is unreasonable pursuant to section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

6. The defendant had, in addition, levied interest on these charges at the rate of 14.2%.

 

7. The Claimant avers that, by this action, the Defendant has sought to enrich itself by the consequences of unlawful action, specifically, unlawful penalty charges as detailed above and applied in terrorem.

 

8. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £ xxx.00 (xxx hundred and xxx pounds sterling) and any interest charged thereon in the sum of £xxx.x (xxx hundred and xxx pounds sterling and xxx pence)

 

b) Court costs;

 

c) interest pursuant to S.69 County Courts Act 1984 from date of issue to date of judgement/settlement at £0.09 per day OR at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

[steven4064]

Hi AG

 

It makes sense OK but there are some changes you ned to make in light of more recent advice. Brief POC is fine except:

The claimant avers that these charges and the interest thereon were levied in contravention of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) and the common law.

POC: paragraphs 1 - 4(a) are fine. Change 4b to:

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of

i) the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 particularly but not limited to Regulations 5, 6 and 8 and Schedule 2, 1 e); and

ii) the common law relating to liquidated damages and penalties in contracts.

Ditch paragraph 5. Every thing else is fine.

 

You might consider also claiming compound interest at a higher rate instead of the 8%. (see most recent posts on this thread and this one). Only do it if you are sure about how it works and are prepared for a fight (although you will alomost certainly get it).

[Alphageek]

Well that's where I am getting confused as my spreadsheet is working it out at 14.20% - that's why I think I am cliaming CCI in one part and then s.69 in the next part.

[steven4064]

There are two different interests here:

 

1) the interest they levied on the charges - that is effectively another charge

2) interest you can claim as restitution - this is suposedly what the 8% is. However, recent events mean that, in theory, you can claim a higher rate compounded.

 

For charges accrued fairly recently (within the last 2-3 years) it doesn't actually make a lot of difference. For older charges the difference can be quite large. However, you need to stick with what you are happy with not what anyone else thinks (including me).

[Alphageek]

Here is my latest version of the N1 POC info.

 

Brief details of Claim

Repayment of charges and interest on amounts charged by the defendant and debited to an account with the claimant for purported breaches of a contract to supply credit services. The claimant avers that these charges and the interest thereon were levied in contravention of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) and the common law.

 

The Claimant claims:

a) the return of amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £260.00

a) the return of the interest of £172.38 charged on amounts debited in respect of charges.

b) Court costs

Particulars of Claim

1. The Claimant had an account 0000000 ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around DAY MONTH 2002 and closed on or around DAY MONTH 2006.

 

2. During the period in which the Account was operating the Defendant automatically debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

 

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account were punitive in nature; were not a genuine pre-estimate of costs incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of

 

i) the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 particularly but not limited to Regulations 5, 6 and 8 and Schedule 2, 1 e); and

 

ii) the common law relating to liquidated damages and penalties in contracts.

 

5. To the extent that it is found that the Defendant’s charges are for the provision of credit services the Claimant contends that the price thereof is unreasonable pursuant to section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

6. The defendant had, in addition, levied interest on these charges at the rate of 14.2%.

 

7. The Claimant avers that, by this action, the Defendant has sought to enrich itself by the consequences of unlawful action, specifically, unlawful penalty charges as detailed above and applied in terrorem.

 

8. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £260.00 (two hundred and sixty pounds sterling) and any interest charged thereon in the sum of £172.38 (one hundred and seventy two pounds sterling and thirty eight pence)

 

b) Court costs;

 

c) interest pursuant to S.69 County Courts Act 1984 from date of issue to date of judgement/settlement at £0.17 per day OR at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

 

Does it look ok now?

 

I can't find my Patricia Pearl book. How many copies do I need to send to the court?

[Alphageek]

Ok, 3 copies of the N1, Attached POC details and SOC printed

[Alphageek]

Found my book -

 

All printed, cheque signed. In the mail in the morning.

[Alphageek]

Mailed.

[Alphageek]

I have had my form sent back to me by the Court today.

 

You need to provide the Defendant's trading status eg. Ltd,or a firm etc. You also sent a cheque for £60.00 but stated the fee as £50.00 on the claim form. The correct fee for the amount you have stated you are claiming is £45.00.

 

DOH!

 

Ok I will add "Ltd" to the Defendant's name.

 

Also, the claim is for between £400.01 and £500.00 and the Patricia Pearl book states the fee for this is £60.00.

 

Checking online shows it is now £45.00 so I will amend that bit as well and resubmit it all on Monday.

 

Looks like the book could do with a revision.

[steven4064]

Its better to use the courts website. and the full title is GE Capital Bank Ltd (T/A GE Capital Woodchester).

[Alphageek]

Back in the mail today.