We need your help folks! Re old T&Cs

[TUTTSI]

Has anyone managed to get hold of T & C's for Halifax 1990

Please

[taurus66]

Hello

has anyone got any T&C for providian/monument? Thanks in advance.

[TANZARELLI]

I'll ask again.

 

Can we have a list for the T&C's gathered to date.

 

This will show people what there is so far and also allow us to identify what else we need to search for.

 

Not to much to ask is it folks.

 

Tanz

[stax68]

detayo1:

 

Don't worry about their saying they 'decline your complaint'.

 

There's no need to amend the POCs in response to the recent Lloyd's case - that was a wierd decision and Lloyd's seem to have allowed it to get trial by mistake. It was lost at trial because of lack of evidence and argument. It wasn't lost because of the POCs being inadequate. The decision wasn't binding on any other court, and the banks haven't stopped paying out because of it.

 

You don't really need to mention the limitation issue in your claim - you could raise it in reply to the defence if the bank uses limitation in the defence. If you do want mention it, the main basis for saying limitation doesn't apply is that you paid the money under a mistake about the lawfulness of the charges, and/or that the bank concealed the fact that the value of the charges was more than they needed to cover their costs. These are based on exceptions written into the Limitation Act 1980 itself, at section 32(1)(b) and © - you could try (a) as well, depending on the evidence you have:D, but probably easier not to bother:

 

where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act, either-

 

(a) the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant; or

(b) any fact relevant to the plaintiff's right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant; or

© the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake;

 

the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it.

 

(Another tack you could take is that the bank's owed the money to you, and was liable to pay it only on demand - in which case the event you are claiming for took place only a month ago or so when you sent the first demand and tehy failed to pay. This is based on the decision in N. Joachimson v. Swiss Bank Corporation. It has the advantage of needing no additional evidence, but the disadvantage of possibly requiring some legal argument, and potentially complicating the issue of claiming interest.)

 

This may be a bit more information than you needed. Basically, I'd say use the existing PoC. With a straightforward claim like yours there shouldn't be any problem.

[detayo1]

Thanks a million, Stax68, you've been very helpful.

 

I can now continue with my POC. However, Halifax in their refusal letter, referred to the charges as 'their fees for the additional work that they carry out when a customer requests a payment without sufficient funds in their account'.

 

Would I need all the T&Cs that were in effect during the time I'm claiming for?. (1999 - 2007)

 

Best Regards

[stax68]

detayo1: Yes, all of them.

Also read them and make sure you can identify the bits that are useful for your claim. In my case, and based on HSBC's T&Cs, defence and new cover story, I looked for and found bits which said:

 

1) that you mustn't or shouldn't or are required not to go over your OD limit or (better still) attempt a payment which would take you over it.

2) that the charges or fees are payable if, when or because you go over the limit (or try to)

3) that the charges are to cover costs (this is optional but good esp. for rebutting the limitations defence, on the basis of concealment.)

4) that in letting you go over the limit they aren't giving you an OD extension - or that you must immediately pay enough in to take you below the limit. Again not required but handy as part of the argument that their story about a service is cobblers.

 

The T&Cs may be different for Halifax, so you will need to use your own judgement. These are suggestions, not hard and fast advice. Don't rely on what I say without thinking it through yourself. I'm not a lawyer - and even if I were, I'm certainly not your lawyer!

 

stax

[TANZARELLI]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/audio/43000000/rm/_43000907_bank_charges.ram

 

Moneybox link

[saintly_1]

I have the 1996 T&C's for Barclays Bank if they are or use to anyone

[TUTTSI]

Hi all

I have just found Abbey Nationals T&C's for MAY 99 and changes to Abbey T & C's effective 15th March 2006.

 

Are these of any help and where do I send them!

DS

[TUTTSI]

Looking at the original conditions that was sent to me just after my account was opened is:-

"We may also change our charges to reflect changes in technology or in the direct costs we are required to pay others, or to take account of inflation"

another one is:-

"We may change our interest rates or our charges at any time, for one or more of the following reasons

- 1.5 d(vi) to enable us to harmonise our banking or charging

arrangements"

DS

[TideTurner]

I have the Mortgage contract for Credit Agricole Personal Finance Plc circa 1991 / 1992 if anybody requires it. Must add - only signed by one party and transferred to Microfiche by Halifax. Don't let them tell you they haven't got it.

[detayo1]

Thanks a million Stax68,

 

If only we knew we would need these T&Cs later on. Could anyone please with Halifax T&Cs from 1999.

 

Thanks in advance

[TANZARELLI]

Thanks a million Stax68,

 

If only we knew we would need these T&Cs later on. Could anyone please with Halifax T&Cs from 1999.

 

Thanks in advance

 

PM me you email addy I have Halifax Cardcash T&Cs 1999

 

Tanz

[stax68]

Thanks a million Stax68,

 

If only we knew we would need these T&Cs later on.

 

No probs.

 

The 'reasonable man' would have kept all the T&Cs, in a binder, in date order!

 

The Myth of the Reasonable Man

(Read the intro paragraph before complaining. 'Relies' is misspelt as 'relics' towards the end.)

[sittinpretty71]

I have Intelligent Finance T&Cs for the year 2000, which they sent to me when I opened my account with them in April 2001, if anyone needs them.

[girlybiker]

Hi, 28 day deadline for defence passed at midnight last night!

Thought I had better prepare court bundle! Please can anyone help with a copy of T & C's for Nationwide dating to Feb 2003? Many Thanks.

[detayo1]

No probs.

 

The 'reasonable man' would have kept all the T&Cs, in a binder, in date order!

 

The Myth of the Reasonable Man

(Read the intro paragraph before complaining. 'Relies' is misspelt as 'relics' towards the end.)

 

Very true stax68, the 'reasonable man' would surely have.

 

Regards

[TANZARELLI]

Crusher, still not heard/seen anythin about the list or area. I have sent alan all the info I have been collecting and when it comes to emailing to ask when the area is to be set up or if i cna have a list he has not replied.

 

A tad rude I think, pass on my concerns please. A simple list shouldn't take too long to compile he can pm me it or send it via my email [email protected]

[TANZARELLI]

Bump

[bugged lady]

I am new to site and am currently in very lengthy not good negotiations with Barclays (actually bank with the Woolwich but Barclays has to deal with it!!?!?!?!?)

 

Anyway I would like to start a new tread on this in the appropriate area but don't know how.

 

Regarding the T&C - thought I would be clever and go to Woolwich web site see if they were on there. Oh yes they are! But they have changed the wording for new accounts when it comes to charging for being overdrawn - very clever. Guess it must be in more detail for actual bank account holders but the T&C in general for new customers is very vague. Guess I'll have to start digging in dusty places too for my own originals - fingers crossed.

 

In meantime can anyone help me start my own thread as I think I'm going to need some help and support from now on. Many thanks.

[MoneyKing]

Here is link to Barclays 1996 T&C.s

 

RapidShare: 1-Click Webhosting

 

 

Just click free, wait for timer, enter the given securtiy code and they are yours!

 

If anyone else has anymore I can also upload them, so just send me a PM and I will send you an e-mail address

 

 

Enjoy and GOOD LUCK

[bugged lady]

Many thanks but unfortunately I haven't had my account with the Woolwich that long - opened it in 2003, so expect they may have changed their terms and conditions by then, also because it is Woolwich and not Barclays (although I know Woolwich is now owned by Barclays) the wording could be slightly different and so open to a different interpretation. Slippery little buggers!!!!!

 

I actually rang the Woolwich, after I posted my message on here, asked them for copy of terms and conditions for open plan account from 2003 and any copies of any changes since then up to the current date. Funny they put me on hold for ages!!! Eventually came back and said they were in the post to me. So I'm back to waiting for the postman again. If they do not arrive within a couple of days I will write a letter and either send it via email or by recorded post. Know shouldn't send by email but it's darn sight quicker and they always acknowledge receipt within a couple of hours. Don't actually reply to my letters within the given time though! I started a complaint against some individual charges they put on my account back in August 2006 because employer didn't put salary into account as usual and so all the DD's went out (well bounced with loads of charges) without my knowing anything about it. Found out after the fact, also found out that employer had gone bust so had no money to pay salaries! They mucked around said they were very sorry, understood my situation etc but couldn't help blah blah and so I made official complaint and they eventually offered me £1,000 in January 2007. Problem is by then the charges had escalated above that because they messed around told me I could still have access to my money (when new salary from new job went in) even though it would take me overdrawn without an agreed overdraft because I had made a complaint. Then when I wrote cheques out and the direct debits were due they bounced them saying that I could only have the extra money if I called them first and arranged to withdraw it from the local branch and then I had to phone the local bank to ensure they had the available cash if it was over a certain amount (what were they saying the bank might run out of readies in the branch!?!?!?!?). So I ended up with even more charges and stopped using the account but they still keep chucking interest on every month at rate of approx £25.

 

I explained all this to them and said I couldn't accept their offer due to the fact that they had misinformed and mislead me causing even more charges to be added to my account. They refused to budge so I told them okay fine in that case send me all my bank statements from inception because if you are going to take that attitude then I will sue you for the whole amount I'm entitled to. That took them until April to send out. It took them till May 10th to reply (despite many telephone calls to them) and eventually they offered me £4,200. The charges amount to £5,650.99 (with interest £6318.14). I wrote back to them saying I couldn't accept the £4,200 but would be prepared to accept it if they included the sum outstanding on my overdraft which would be around £5,300. I also pointed out that this was still lower than the actual figure they owed me and even lower than the sum I would be claiming once the interest was added on if I took them to court. Gave them 7 days to reply. Heard nothing rang them after that 3 times in 2 days end of last week and still heard nothing. So wrote another letter to them yesterday saying I was extremely disappointed with their lack of response and as a result I was prepared to accept the £4,200 originally offered as part payment-definitely NOT in full and final settlement and that I would be suing them for the rest. Also told them I would give them 7 calendar days in which to reply and if I did not hear from them within that time then I would start proceedings in the court against them without further notice. Just worked it out this has been going on for over 10mths-6 of which have been direct request for all my charges back. Time to empower myself. Time to make a stand. Also I'm stubborn bugger so won't cave in and will see it through to bitter end win or lose. Husband getting very arsy with me because he thinks I should have just accepted the £4,200 especially in light of the Lloyds tsb judgement last month. Think he had already spent the money in his mind anyway and was very miffed when I got stubborn and stuck my foot down. He's not really helping because it does take a lot of will power to carry on and not just cave in. It does make me wonder am I just being stubborn for the sake of what is right and cutting my nose off to spite my face. But then I think 'no that's what bank wants me to do and in way they would've won if I had accepted'. So here I am stuck in it for the long haul with all my fingers and toes crossed and hoping to goodness I get the legal side totally right so I don't bugger it up.

 

By the way if I do get the T&C's from them I would be more than willing to give you copies for the library. You'll just have to give me directions on how I can get it to you. Not bad on lots of things but IT not my strong point!

[MoneyKing]

bugged lady dont give up! fight to the bitter end.

 

make sure you start you own thread and you will have a whole world of people behind you!

 

barclays are slow, but dont let that slow you down! you are suing them, not the other way round. you set the rules and time scale. stick to the dates you set and dont budge! I found it a little hard to follow the steps you have taken, could you please let us know by bullet point (make sure it is in your own thread!). I think you may be at the stage of issuing a claim, but just to be safe its best you put down you steps

[TideTurner]

Bugged Lady,

 

You need to get the interest portion of your claim correct. When you make a claim, you should put forward two figures to the Court, first the resultant figure at the statutory interest rate (8%) and the unauthorised rate (19% - 40%).

 

When you issue your claim, you should issue both figures, by completing the spreadsheets in the Library, and inform the Court that you believe the unauthorised rate has been applied, however, you will accept any figure decided by the Court.

 

Complete the spreadsheet, input the statutory rate (Court rate 8%), print it out, then change the interest rate to the unauthorised rate, print out, and send both copies to the Court.

 

Tide

[bugged lady]

MoneyKing

Many thanks for your reply. Yes guess my description was a little garbled. In truth do have all the times, dates etc etc down in very large file with copies of letters, dates and times of phone calls etc. Just a little too much info to put in 1st message when I knew I was in wrong messaging section.

Would like to start my own thread but don't know how to do it-sorry not a complete blond bimbo but new to message sites like this and so get a little lost sometimes in what 'buttons' to press to get somewhere!

 

TideTurner

 

I did calculations on MartinsMoneyExpert website. Have complete figure for charges from date I first opened a/c in 2003 up to and including April 07. Know I have to add a few on cos they are still charging me in region of £25 pm interest on the overdraft these charges have created on my a/c. Also have the statutory 8% interest rate charges calculated up to April 07, but again realise I will have to recalculate these before putting in a claim to court because they will have altered due to timescale.

 

However, I have not heard of the unauthorised rate at 19%-40%. Would be grateful if you could enlighten me further re this. I'll be honest I haven't looked at the calculator on this site yet (didn't think there was a need as I was just going to use the one on MartinsMoneyExpert site to do recalculations).

 

If someone can direct me on how to start my own thread I'll dig out the file and put the exact correct figures and dates in chronological order so others can make sense of it. MoneyKing is right I am at stage where I need issue court proceedings against them. My last letter stated that I was disappointed at their lack of response and that if I did not hear from them within 7 calendar days I would start proceedings without giving them further notification. So I really need to get my act together now, also get the figurework totally right, totally up to date, and most importantly get the legal wording etc and paperwork for my court bundles correct. I certainly do not want to make the slightest error to give them any chance of finding a loophole in my argument.

 

Anyway if either you or MoneyKing could give me advice on how to start my own thread I would be most grateful and as I said before will relay my whole story there. Then when I win!!!!! I will be in a position to help others through this process too.