They are chasing my dead husband and won't stop!

[Gromit1]

My husband died in October and when I informed C1, they refused to discuss the account with me as I was not the account holder and after a lengthy conversation I was finally told to send athe original death certificate and then they would send the appropriate forms. I sent a copy of the death certificate at the beginning of November. I calculated that he owed just short of £200. His car insurance refund amounted to about £220 and was refunded sometime in November. The only letters after that were junk mail offers of loans to my late husband until 3/4/07 when a letter came addressed to my late husband threatening court action and bailiffs unless he paid £78 for outstanding monies. I have written to them insisting that they return the death certificate and to stop writing to my husband and asking for a statement. They wrote a very curt letter stating they would be investigating the matter. Then another letter came addressed to my husbands executers demanding all bank account details and investments etc and amounts in each account etc.

On the one hand I want it off my back but on the other, I can only guess that the amount of £78 refers to charges incurred after the date of death and when I infomed them. I have three children to consider and this is obviously still a difficult time and I am angry at their attitude and cavalier threats.

Any advice about this would be appreciated - like - can they actually send in the bailiffs on the strength of this?

Thanks

[Guest MotleyCrue]

This is an interesting predicament.

 

You obviously have no legal obligation to pay the amount.

 

As Far as cap1 are concerned though, unless they see the original death certificate, they are unable to do anything. This is due to people sending fake death certificates to get out of their debts.

 

If you are close to Nottingham, I would suggest calling them, and seeing what they are willing to do. They will advise you to send the death certificate, which they wil take a copy of and then return it. You are best to do this recorded/special delivery, to ensure safekeeping of it.

 

Once they have this, they will treat fairly and will cancel the debt. They will also apologise for inconveniencing you.

 

As I'm sure you can appreciate, from their point if view, until they have proof of death, it is difficult to cancel the debt. If they did this, people would be sending copies of death certifiates left right and centre to get out of their obligations!

 

Good luck in sorting this out, I'm sure Cap1 will be very accommodating, regardless of the rubbish posted about them on these forums.

[chain chick]

I don't have any advise, by replying I have bumped your thread.

 

Just wanted to say, I think that is terrible and I am sure someone will have some good advise for you.

 

I wish you all the best

[Paintball]

Bump

 

Aviator, can you help on this?

[bally35]

Hi sorry for your awful loss.

I would ask when the £78.00 was incurred.

Your husbands account should have been blocked upon notification of his death(standard banking practice).

Also request why they had not sent statements to husbands solicitor/executor after death so that you could be kept in formed of monies owed

[Paintball]

Just had a thought. There is a harrassment letter (although for telephone calls) in the Template Letters Section which you may wish to use in this matter, making amendments as appropriate and incorporating Bally's suggestions:

Harassment by telephone - response letter

 

HTH xx

[rory32]

I would also inform Trading Standards of the matter, as a credit of your late husband they have to wait in the queue like everyone else. The executor or solicitor appointed to deal with the estate should be dealing with this. If there is money from the estate they get paid, if there isn't they don't.

With regards to baillifs, they can forget it - they have no power to do this.

[Paintball]

Hello Gromit1

 

Please find below advice from a legal expert who is unable to post on this site, but who has asked me, after reading about your problem, to let you know the following sent in good faith:

 

"The lady's problem is that she sent them a copy and not the original. They are very strict on this as people would wangle their way out of debts with false ones if a copy would do,

 

Best advice is for her to call cap1, arrange for them to receive the ORIGINAL death certificate by recorded delivery and they will advise from their. Until the see the original, as far as they are concerned, he is alive and dodging his bills.

 

They will retrospectively activate the account, cancelling any charges after his death, and the remainder will be settled in the same manner as everything else he owed. Hopefully through his life insurance. (or his ppi if he had any)"

 

P

[Josie8]

Hello Gromit1

 

Please find below advice from a legal expert who is unable to post on this site, but who has asked me, after reading about your problem, to let you know the following sent in good faith:

 

"The lady's problem is that she sent them a copy and not the original. They are very strict on this as people would wangle their way out of debts with false ones if a copy would do,

 

Best advice is for her to call cap1, arrange for them to receive the ORIGINAL death certificate by recorded delivery and they will advise from their. Until the see the original, as far as they are concerned, he is alive and dodging his bills.

 

They will retrospectively activate the account, cancelling any charges after his death, and the remainder will be settled in the same manner as everything else he owed. Hopefully through his life insurance. (or his ppi if he had any)"

 

P

Yes you aren't responsible for his debts at all unless you had cosigned the agreement. Executors etc have what is called a year and a day to prove the estate and pay bills - it effectively freezes everything .....

[Gromit1]

Thankyou Rory32, I have thought of Trading Standards but wasn't sure if this would be within their remit. This was the only "debt" of any sort owed by my husband/us as we actively avoided any form of debt from when he became ill two years ago. Re, the solicitor, I have found this to be an expensive means of dealing with things and whilst I have no debts, I am managing financially thanks to careful management and am concerned that the solicitors charges could outweigh the benefits if you get my drift. I don't want to spend out more than the sum involved and I doubt if I would stand a chance of recovering it from C1...

Are you positive about the bailiffs not being a possibility?

Thanks for your help.

 

Re other replies - I asked them for a statement when I informed them of his death, they refused on the grounds of - yes, wait for it - Data Protection.... I am not the account holder, etc, etc. I have put a request in writing but have not had a response.

[Josie8]

Thankyou Rory32, I have thought of Trading Standards but wasn't sure if this would be within their remit. This was the only "debt" of any sort owed by my husband/us as we actively avoided any form of debt from when he became ill two years ago. Re, the solicitor, I have found this to be an expensive means of dealing with things and whilst I have no debts, I am managing financially thanks to careful management and am concerned that the solicitors charges could outweigh the benefits if you get my drift. I don't want to spend out more than the sum involved and I doubt if I would stand a chance of recovering it from C1...

Are you positive about the bailiffs not being a possibility?

Thanks for your help.

 

Re other replies - I asked them for a statement when I informed them of his death, they refused on the grounds of - yes, wait for it - Data Protection.... I am not the account holder, etc, etc. I have put a request in writing but have not had a response.

 

 

baliffs could only be sent after a court judgement

[rory32]

With regards to bailiffs, yes absolutely certain. This is Cap One's usual empty threat. Paintball is unfortuantely correct - they can insist on an original death certificate (which costs you money to get - allbeit not a lot) rather than a copy. I had a similar problem last year with credit agreements when dealing with my aunt's estate.

You may also want to complain in writing to Cap One about your awful treatment. They will then have 8 weeks to resolve your complaint (they won't resolve it). You can then make a complaint to the FOS about them, this is a free service for you but the FOS will charge Cap One £400 for looking into the complaint. £400 costs for chasing £200, makes sense doesn't it?

[rory32]

Josie's quite right - and you can't get a court order for unsecured debt on someone who has died.

[SteveH2508]

Death of debtor or hirer.

 

86.

--(1) The creditor or owner under a regulated agreement is not entitled, by reason of the death of the debtor or hirer, to do an act specified in paragraphs (a) to (e) of section 87(1) if at the death the agreement is fully secured.

 

(2) If at the death of the debtor or hirer a regulated agreement is only partly secured or is unsecured, the creditor or owner is entitled, by reason of the death of the debtor or hirer, to do an act specified in paragraphs (a) to (e) of section 87(1) on an order of the court only.

 

(3) This section applies in relation to the termination of an agreement only where--

 

(a) a period for its duration is specified in the agreement, and

(b) that period has not ended when the creditor or owner purports to terminate the agreement,

but so applies notwithstanding that, under the agreement, any party is entitled to terminate it before the end of the period so specified.

(4) This section does not prevent the creditor from treating the right to draw on any credit as restricted or deferred, and taking such steps as may be necessary to make the restriction or deferment effective.

(5) This section does not affect the operation of any agreement providing for

payment of sums--

(a) due under the regulated agreement, or

(b) becoming due under it on the death of the debtor or hirer,

out of the proceeds of a policy of assurance on his life.

(6) For the purposes of this section an act is done by reason of the death of the debtor or hirer if it is done under a power conferred by the agreement which is--

(a) exercisable on his death, or

(b) exercisable at will and exercised at any time after his death.

 

 

Need for default notice.

87.

--(1) Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a default notice) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement,--

(a) to terminate the agreement, or

(b) to demand earlier payment of any sum, or

© to recover possession of any goods or land, or

(d) to treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as terminated, restricted or deferred, or

(e) to enforce any security.

 

It seems to me that S86(2) of the CCA74 covers your situation. They cannot issue a default notice or take any action as specified in S87(1) without a court order. It sounds like the usual bluff and bluster from their phone monkeys.

 

 

[Gromit1]

It seems that everyone is in total agreement that they cannot simply send in the bailiffs (or Sherrif's Officers as we are in Scotland) to recover the monies allegedly owed - no way of knowing what is owed since they still won't provide me with a statement as I am not the account holder - on the phone they just kept repeating that they could and would only communicate with him. To my shame, my response eventually was that they might only be successful if they used a ouija board... enough said!

The responses have prompted me to put this in the hands of the FSO and maybe let them fight my corner. It has just had me very concerned but not wanting to just pay up on a point of principle because I had no proof that the charge was at all legally incurred or whatever.

So many many thanks to all who have given me advice and taken the time to offer help - it is very much appreciated.

I promise to post the outcomes whatever they may be.

[gizmo111]

I had problems with Cap 1 after my mother passsed away, I wrote a letter of complaint, sent an original death cert and they wrote off the balance of around £180.

 

Did your husband leave an estate or was the £220 refund all there was?

[MARTIN3030]

Trading standards would also be my first port of call,however a phonecall to the F.O.S would not be a bad idea either. Both of these organisations I am sure would put you straight and if need be take this case up for you.

The 400 quid fine might be enough to make Cap 1 see some sense.

[Gromit1]

I had problems with Cap 1 after my mother passsed away, I wrote a letter of complaint, sent an original death cert and they wrote off the balance of around £180.

 

Did your husband leave an estate or was the £220 refund all there was?

 

There was not an estate other than relatively small amounts in joint bank accounts and no life insurance (he had it with a previous job but after leaving was unable to get life insurance due to having recently had leukaemia...). There are a couple of tiddly pensions now paid to me and I work part-time, and support myself and three sons myself and with working families tax credits etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, I can afford to pay Cap1, but choose not to as they will not provide a statement!

 

I think I will take the advice given so far and contact FSO and Trading Standards, together with sending the original death certificate (with huge reservations due to previous bad experiences) via recorded delivery and then see what they do from there. But re the £220 refund - without charges, according to my calculations, I believe this actually put the account in credit.

 

It is so frustrating and although it is a small amount, it is just something else that I fret about.

 

But many thanks for your interest and concern

Regards

Gromit1

[gizmo111]

If that was the case then there wasn't enough to pay the funeral expenses so the debt gets written off.

 

Sorry to hear you are having such a hard time - losing someone you love is hard enough without the added hassle from these companies.

[Gromit1]

The Death Grant (£2000) almost covered the funeral as the undertaker was a friend of the family so costs were very much kept at a minimum.

 

But thank you for your kind thoughts.

 

Cheers

Gromit1

[Guest amethystdragon]

Can I ask a question - When you sent them a copy of the Death Certificate - was it an "official" copy or one that you had photocopied ?

 

If it was an official copy - i.e One you got from the register office then that is legally all they need - If you sent it by registered post then they have to prove to you that they didn't receive it. If you didn't its going to be very hard for you to prove otherwise

 

If however you sent a photocopy well you are going to have to send them an official one - However you can buy extra official copies from the register office for this person - you can order it online or at the office for about £7 - it may be worth getting an extra one just so you have it if you need it

 

It may sound odd but I've done this (bought certificates) many times whilst researching my family tree.

 

Do you have a copy of the original letter you sent to them - I would send a copy of it to them plus the death certificate.

 

The other issue is that they won't send you a statement - Are you the executor of his estate? If so once you have proved to them that he is no longer alive - they are obliged to deal with his executor's to resolve his estate and that means full disclosure of his details - Its a load of baloney for them to say they won't reveal his details to you - sounds like very badly trained staff to me

[Gromit1]

I sent them a photocopy of the original and unfortunately, I did not send it recorded delivery (stupid, I know) but to be honest, I think my head was all over the place... three children and I was also looking at the forth-coming prospect of leaving my house as it was a tied house, etc, etc.... anyway, I received a letter from C1 on Monday - they have apologised and admitted human error was to blame for the continued mail to my late husband and requested the original death certificate.

I have now sent this recorded delivery and informed them that a letter was in the post to the FSO and again, expressing my distress and outrage at the way in which they have dealt with this etc, etc and also insisting that they return the death certificate by recoded delivery.

So we will see what happens from here....

I agree with your comment about badly trained staff - when I rang to inform them of his death and stop the account and request a balance and to offer to pay the balance there and then, the operator just continually repeated that they "would only speak to the account holder for reasons of data protection" - so clearly not actually listening to the fact that I was informing them of his death!!!

But many thanks for your interest and for taking the time to post

Regards

Gromit1

[rory32]

The issue of poorly trained staff seems to be widespread. BT staff couldn't seem to understand why it might have been upsetting to send final demands (addressed to my grandfather) to my grandmother after my grandfather had died, despite my mother sending them the original death certificate as executor of the estate.

[Gromit1]

I know exactly what you mean....

 

His car insurance company were not much better and took a similar line over data protection but after a bit of hassle and a very strange non-English speaking call centre staff person, I spoke to someone in customer services who was great and turned the situation around totally.

 

I feel I could now write an advisory book on what not to do when someone dies... for example, don't be too hasty contacting Tax Credits!!!! I contacted Tax Credits almost immediately to inform them of the change of circumstances (I am almost paranoid about "doing things correctly" and whilst running on an empty head and no sleep, did all these things with hyper-efficiency). They don't suspend payments - they stop them completely and you have to reapply. So no payments coming in until it all gets sorted out. Thankfully I went down in person and had them photocopy and certify all the certificates etc, and got them to send off my application in the internal mail - they then lost it all (but at least they didn't have the original documents - once bitten twice shy). Their specialist division said because I had lost it (yes, me, even though it was in their internal mail...) I couldn't get a duplicate set of forms until another run was printed and that could take several weeks. I then found out that local MP's have a hotline to the Tax Credits and so got it all sorted out via him but it took ages and in the meantime, no money coming in other than my part time wages.

I was given the wrong envelope by the registrars which resulted in my application for Widowed Parents Benefit being delayed by nearly eight weeks because the application went to the wrong office - along with all my original documents and birth certificates, marriage certificate etc...

 

In the bigger scheme of things, capital one is minor compared to all this and a damn sight more, but, it is sometimes the little things that can drag on the longest and so become much bigger than they need to be.

 

Anyway, I'll get off my soap box and go and get some work done.

 

Thanks again