Girlfriends mums nightmare

[Rich44]

My GFs mum has had a bit of a nightmare with the NHS which i'll explain below.

 

She has a history of mental health issues and was given a lot of electro-shock treatments back in the day part of the treatment was to be put on Ametryptaline now from everything i've read you are not supposed to be left on this for long as it can cause all manner of problems. Basically she now has to wear a catheter all the time as the Ametryptaline has damaged all the nerve endings concerned after she was left on it by several GPs for over 10 years.

 

She also has a huge hernia that they are refusing point blank to do a thing about as she has a heart condition even though its making her life a misery.

 

She was then taken into hospital to have the catheter fitted through her groin to make it easier for her, on the way home she felt wet and looked down to see she was pouring blood and had to be rushed back in by amulance where they found that the consulatant had made the hole too big so another overnight stop in hospital and they sent her home.

 

We went to visit, my partner was 27 weeks pregnant at the time and she seemed quite well, a week later we found out she had been given MRSA in her wound and to make matters worse the GP had known for over a week and hadnt told her as "they didnt want to worry her" the only reason she found out was she specifically asked is the infection in the wound MRSA when they did actually admit it.

 

In the meantime my partner is panicking like hell as she has had 2 miscarriages in the last year (6 weeks and 11 weeks) and has cried herself to sleep on several ocassions.

 

Now to cap it all of she tested negative for MRSA on a test then 4 weeks later she tested positive for it meaning that she cannot pass 4 tests before the due date of the baby and as the umbilical cord is treated as an open wound means she cannot visit her only grandchild for god knows how long.

 

Basically i'm just asking is it worth taking legal advice on this, I dont mean to moan about the NHS as they do a great job generally under pressure but its really upset the both of them and the only reason it happened in the first place is down to neglect by the GPs concerned leaving her on the Ametryptaline.

 

Any advice is much appreciated on this

 

[JonCris]

My GFs mum has had a bit of a nightmare with the NHS which i'll explain below.

 

She has a history of mental health issues and was given a lot of electro-shock treatments back in the day part of the treatment was to be put on Ametryptaline now from everything i've read you are not supposed to be left on this for long as it can cause all manner of problems. Basically she now has to wear a catheter all the time as the Ametryptaline has damaged all the nerve endings concerned after she was left on it by several GPs for over 10 years.

 

She also has a huge hernia that they are refusing point blank to do a thing about as she has a heart condition even though its making her life a misery.

 

She was then taken into hospital to have the catheter fitted through her groin to make it easier for her, on the way home she felt wet and looked down to see she was pouring blood and had to be rushed back in by amulance where they found that the consulatant had made the hole too big so another overnight stop in hospital and they sent her home.

 

We went to visit, my partner was 27 weeks pregnant at the time and she seemed quite well, a week later we found out she had been given MRSA in her wound and to make matters worse the GP had known for over a week and hadnt told her as "they didnt want to worry her" the only reason she found out was she specifically asked is the infection in the wound MRSA when they did actually admit it.

 

In the meantime my partner is panicking like hell as she has had 2 miscarriages in the last year (6 weeks and 11 weeks) and has cried herself to sleep on several ocassions.

 

Now to cap it all of she tested negative for MRSA on a test then 4 weeks later she tested positive for it meaning that she cannot pass 4 tests before the due date of the baby and as the umbilical cord is treated as an open wound means she cannot visit her only grandchild for god knows how long.

 

Basically i'm just asking is it worth taking legal advice on this, I dont mean to moan about the NHS as they do a great job generally under pressure but its really upset the both of them and the only reason it happened in the first place is down to neglect by the GPs concerned leaving her on the Ametryptaline.

 

Any advice is much appreciated on this

 

1st you MUST seek the advice of a medical negligence lawyer The Law Society's web site will help.

 

It appears to me that there are 2 probable causes of action the 1st being your GF's mum & the 2nd possibly your GF for the distress it's caused. Other than that you need to see a lawyer now

[Rich44]

Cheers I have been to the law societys website and found what looks like a good solicitors who deal with this kind of thing, no win no fee and who will visit her at home for free too to discuss it with her, just need to persuade her to call them now theyre both in their late 60's and dont like to make a fuss

[lynzpower]

Ive worked for a while in/with the NHS and thought Id heard it all

 

This has shocked even me, this is a disgraceful failiure.

 

DO let us know how you get on

 

All the best

Lynz

[Rich44]

Thanks for your reply we're still trying to pressure her (in the nicest possible way) into calling a solicitor in, last time we were over I took a nice printout of a local law firm who specialise in clinical negligence and who will visit her at home so its just getting them to call now (you know how some of these late 60's ladies can be im sure).

 

Things are never really going to get any better for her but she won just enough money to pay for BUPA to treat the hernia that would change her life, if we could afford to pay for it we would but with the baby due and other commitments and with going down to 1 wage for awhile its just not possible

 

I feel so sorry for her all the things shes been put through over the years and now the NHS letting her and my partner down they way they have its inexcusable.

 

To add insult to injury the hospital are now refusing to send nurses out to change the dressings on the wound and have told her to do it herself, she cant as she has to hold the hernia out of the way for the nurse to change it

 

Then her local GP came round to see her and check the wound etc bringing 2 medical students with her and she didnt wash her hands before touching her (despite being offered the medical strength cleanser by her mum) and then left without washing her hands again.

 

I'm totaly livid over the whole thing and want to start the ball rolling for her by going to the Chief Exec of the PCT but i'll wait for now to see if she will act i'm just so angry especially that last visit with no hand washing, thats how she probably got MRSA in the first place

[Guest Mumofthreeboys]

Rich44,

 

Makes my broadband problems look absolutely pathetic.

 

I hope your GF is OK, I'm sure she will be.

 

Have you tried Social Services for her Mum? Another excellent place to put a post like this is MSE - have you done that?

 

Keep us posted, xxxxx

[Rich44]

Yeah GF is ok she now has Gestational Diabetes though so has to inject insulin twice a day so is now cheesed off about that too

 

Local hospital in Norwich have been brilliant though I have to say (her mum is in cambridgeshire) we've been down there every week since she was diagnosed (this is the first week off but back in again next week) we get a scan every 2 weeks to check on the babys size etc and then see a diabetic consultant, a diabetes specialist midwife and then the normal consultant so feel very looked after which is good!

 

Her mum gets everything she is entitled to at the moment, as far as I see it is the NHS gave her the MRSA so they should be sending a nurse out to check on her and change the dressings as needed, although I do wonder whether theyre worth risking esp as the last GP didnt wash her hands before OR after

 

I havent posted on MSE i'll have a look at doing this later on, thanks for the suggestion

 

Glad to hear your broadband is sorted out

[Guest Mumofthreeboys]

I havent posted on MSE i'll have a look at doing this later on, thanks for the suggestion

 

Definitely get over there, they have loads of suggestions and tips on everything (and I do mean everything). Not to mention plenty of pregnancy/baby freebies on the freebies boards

 

Good luck, keep us poted xx

[Rich44]

I'll have to do it this afternoon as MSE is filtered here (am at school - where I work looking after all the computers etc lol)

[Guest Mumofthreeboys]

(am at school - where I work looking after all the computers etc lol)

 

OMG, got a bit of a shock then LOL what with you're girlfriend being pregnant and all. Thought I might have been advising a 14 year old for a minute

[letssueeveryone]

To be fair we dont know if the gp had already washed hands b4 arriving and as mum already had mrsa then she was more at risk fro her than giving it her again.She already had mrsa so cant get it again......needs to wash her hands b4 the next person though.Hope the reason the nhs gave that they didnt want to risk a hernia op becoz of her heart was a mistake and that bupa know this and are ready to transfer her just in case they were right if they have probs but good on yo for forcing an op coz yo think its right.anyway noone can stop your mum visiting even if she is mrsa as the staff on the ward wont know if u dont tell her. wards are full of visitors with infections who dont tell the staff just in case theyre kept away and they cant do anything about it....acturally that is not a good thing to tell u coz maybe thats how infections get into hospitals bu t u know what i mean. mum cant be stopped unless they know shes got mrsa and u can hide that like other visitors do.Keep away from other patients and vistors too not just the staff.dont ever let any other people near your baby and not even after you get home for a while too they could be carrying anything-most healthy people have mrsa but have no symptoms.good luck m8

[letssueeveryone]

Im playing on the side of the gps for a change here. maybe they didnt have the info we have today that keeping someone on amitryptiline for a long time was bad....I need to take your word this is true as I dont know.after all long term side effects take a long time to show! Trying to sue doctors in the past for stuff they didn't know then seems like a waste of time like they used to do prefrontal lobotonmies and electric shock them in the past but they thought it was right then.We can only sue them if they are doing it now for no good reason.You need to prove the bladder thing was caused by drugs and negligently so they must have known it was wrong in the past but did it anyway although if they thought that the mental illness was more of a problem and weighed the options up and went ahead for her sake that might be more difficult.Hernias are usually noting to do with drugs but weight and stuff so the amitryptiline doesnt seem to be blamed here only the decision to not tdo the op coz of heart probs which might be just being too safe.dunno.

but if this drug does casue bladder nerve destruction and u can prove it and the docs kept givin it to her after they knew it and the illness wasnt enuf to take that risk then u got a case. careful the lawyers dont take it all though and leave u with peanuts.Sue them if they do. theyve got more money than the nhs and its all private so nowon loses.

[Rich44]

The consultant shes under told her it was the long term use of Ametryptaline that caused the damage AND that she should NEVER have been prescribed it as it has dangerous side effects for people with heart conditions and could have caused serious problems (for serious I read death)

.

 

so even if we cant prove that the doctors knew about the ametryptaline side effects 10 years ago it is a drug the NHS consultant has admitted she should never have been on in the first place!

 

As for washing hands, sorry thats just rubbish we're supposed to believe that the GP had washed his hands prior to arriving?? Well she was handling an INFECTED open wound, never mind the MRSA I know she cant catch that twice (being a little patronising there I feel) we know that but she could catch ANYTHING else from someone with dirty hands in an already infected wound. GPs are supposed to use gloves (she's allergic to latex so non-latex gloves) or wash hands in front of patients or at the very least shortly before touching them.

 

How about this: A surgeon is going to operate on you and he doesnt wash his hands because he washed them after he went to the toilet 10 minutes ago.

 

a little extreme and slightly exagerrated but you catch my point, they should wash their hands just before touching the patient and then again afterwards, if we all assumed GPs did this and didnt question them then we could all be at risk, what if the GP didnt and she then transmitted the MRSA to someone else the MiL would feel terrible about that even though it wouldnt directly be her fault.

 

Apparently the NHS could do the hernia op using an epidural to lessen the risk from anaesthetics but they havent offered her that, the hernia is nothing to do with the drugs or being overweight (it can happen by other means too) its just one of those things that has happened and another thing the NHS are trying to keep off the waiting list to make the figures look better at Addenbrookes

 

PS sorry for rant had a bad day

[Butterbean]

Aside from anything else it's unforgiveable that someone doesn't wash their hands properly just before doing a dressing or afterwards, or use a special hand gel instead of washing (and that has to be used properly too). These days there's a big campaign throughout UK hospitals for patients and families to challenge staff who they think haven't washed their hands before attending to a patient, although I must say some people practically have to be dragged to the sink.

 

For the GP not to wash their hands when dealing with an open wound of a physically vulnerable patient who already has heart problems just makes me gasp in astonishment. You have every right to insist that any attending physician or nurse washes or gels their hands before going near your g/f's mum, and that they wash or gel properly afterwards. If she has MRSA then they should have taken special precautions with particular care paid to the disposal of the used dressings, too.

 

Time for my little rant (or another one)! In the hospital where I was working up until recently, you could go blue in the face getting teams of doctors to wash / gel when entering or leaving a ward, let alone when attending a patient. I'm not saying that's how MRSA is spread specifically but it doesn't help. And because some visitors could see that some staff weren't scrupulous about washing / gelling, they didn't either, saying "well they're not doing it why should I?" The Infection Control Specialist Nurse used to do her nut.

 

Thing is, "in the olden days" when I was a young trainee, you washed your hands as instinctively as breathing. You had ward cleaners who were part of the team and yes although matron or the ward sister could sound like a fiery old dragon when it came to cleanliness, it was for a purpose - to try and stop cross infection and to protect both patients and staff. Standards have dropped considerably over the years - I was an inpatient on a surgical ward a couple of times and had a major op; I was quietly having litters of kittens when I saw how lax the standards now are, and had to ask, as diplomatically as possible, for things to be done when they were doing my dressings.

 

Personally I'd be very reluctant to take a newborn baby to see someone with MRSA, or indeed into a ward. Their immune systems can only take so much and you don't know who's wheezing away with flu somewhere or harbouring other contagious airborne infections. I'd certainly take advice - it may be that you'll be told that it's not in your newborn's interests to be taken in. Harsh, perhaps, but sensible.

 

Hope you get somewhere with legal advice, and also that your g/f's mum is able to have her hernia op under epidural if she's fit enough. You haven't said what type of hernia she has - could be one of a number of types of course and it may be a small one or a large one depending on where it is - if you're in talks again with her surgeon then make sure to get them to explain exactly what the situation is if they're not happy to do it even under an epidural.

 

Wishing you all well.

[Rich44]

Thanks thats along my line of thinking too regarding the washing of hands etc not only do they need to do it but they need to be seen to do it as much as anything else.

 

When we go visit her we gel our hands ffs so why shouldnt anyone, doesnt that crap hurt your hands makes mine sting I gel them and then wash them with soap to get the stuff off afterwards

 

Luckily she's not in hospital she's at home we think she's had 2 clean swabs now so only 2 more until she's pronounced treated as it were.

 

I agree re the baby there's no way the baby is going anywhere near her till she is definately treated.

 

She phoned up the GPs Friday to find out the latest test results from the wound and get this:

 

Recep: Hello

MiL: Hello i'd like my results from my tests please

Recep: Ok please hold on

MiL: Ok

Recep: There's no change

MiL: What does that mean?

Recep:No change

MiL: Does that mean no change from last time which came back clear or no change as in MRSA is still present

Recep: I don't know I think it means no change from the last test which came back clear

MiL: Can you find out for sure?

Recep: No the doctors are all busy and there's no one else to talk to you will have to make an appointment

MiL: Oh

 

Something along those lines and bearing in mind she's disabled with MRSA she has the doctor out to her each time so thats more GP time wasted, marvellous!!

[Rich44]

It gets worse now it looks like my partner will be giving birth via C-Section there will be definately no visits till she is healed.

 

We called her today and they have stopped her home visits, told her she cannot have the silver dressings because if it gets worse they then wont work (ffs), the GP told her she cant have any gloves as she hasnt got a prescription for them and that would be fraud (WTF??) and we've just found out shes not on ANY medication be it lotion or tablets to clear this up.

 

I am seriously about to blow my stack at someone at the NHS over this, I think she's finally realised that she should see a solicitor. She's talking about doing a SAR on it but whats the point if they just let you read them we all know what Drs writing is like I think she should go see a solicitor first personally think this may be the kick up the bum she needs

[JonCris]

Im playing on the side of the gps for a change here. maybe they didnt have the info we have today that keeping someone on amitryptiline for a long time was bad....I need to take your word this is true as I dont know.after all long term side effects take a long time to show! Trying to sue doctors in the past for stuff they didn't know then seems like a waste of time like they used to do prefrontal lobotonmies and electric shock them in the past but they thought it was right then.We can only sue them if they are doing it now for no good reason.You need to prove the bladder thing was caused by drugs and negligently so they must have known it was wrong in the past but did it anyway although if they thought that the mental illness was more of a problem and weighed the options up and went ahead for her sake that might be more difficult.Hernias are usually noting to do with drugs but weight and stuff so the amitryptiline doesnt seem to be blamed here only the decision to not tdo the op coz of heart probs which might be just being too safe.dunno.

but if this drug does casue bladder nerve destruction and u can prove it and the docs kept givin it to her after they knew it and the illness wasnt enuf to take that risk then u got a case. careful the lawyers dont take it all though and leave u with peanuts.Sue them if they do. theyve got more money than the nhs and its all private so nowon loses.

 

Sorry your comment about the lawyers taking most or any of it is both wrong. You clearly believe the myths put about by the insurance industry.

 

Under the very strict rules solicitors unlike their American counterparts are not allowed in anyway to share in the damages awarded. All their costs are recovered from the losing defendant. A "No Win No Fee" (CFA) means just that win or lose no fees are payable to the solicitor by the claimant/victim.

 

No one is permitted to sue on the back of another which is what would be effectivly happening if the solicitor had a vested interest (other than his duty to his client) in the amount of the award. Its the reason why we don't yet have contingency agreements here as they do in the states. It's a rule current today even though it goes back to medieval times & is called "CHAMPERTY"

[Rich44]

Exactly its ridiculous you are confusing no win no fee with solicitors and no win no fee from some of these seriously dodgy ambulance chasers who steal a large chunk of your payout.

 

There are several ways it works either via an insurance policy or if say in the case of a car accident negligence is already established the other side pay the legal fees from the outset. Ive used this system twice now and neither time had a single penny taken off of my claim

 

and as I have already said the rest of the argument doesnt hold water and to be brutally honest is pretty much rubbish (no offense meant)

[JonCris]

Exactly its ridiculous you are confusing no win no fee with solicitors and no win no fee from some of these seriously dodgy ambulance chasers who steal a large chunk of your payout.

 

There are several ways it works either via an insurance policy or if say in the case of a car accident negligence is already established the other side pay the legal fees from the outset. Ive used this system twice now and neither time had a single penny taken off of my claim

 

and as I have already said the rest of the argument doesnt hold water and to be brutally honest is pretty much rubbish (no offense meant)

 

I assume your not referring to me.

 

A further point regarding ambulance chasers. If any claims company asks a claimant to sign a damages sharing agreement then no solicitor can become involved as it's very much against the rules or if they did they would have to disregard it & pay you all of the award as it's unenforcable in law for the reasons I have already alluded to.

 

The companies now advertising on TV are organisations set up by groups of specialist solicitors to advertise their services under one banner. As you will note they all offer "no win no fee" & DO NOT take any of your damages awarded

 

After having said all of that there is one exception to the rule & it is in the case of Employment Tribunals. If your the applicant (claimant) then you can be represented & your legal representative can enter into a contingency agreement with you whereby they DO share in any award. I think the maximum is 1/3 of the award. Sounds a lot but don't forget if you lose they, like you, get nowt

[Rich44]

No I was agreeing with your point hence the "Exactly"

[moggy1968]

MRSA is carried by over 40% of the population as part of their natural skin flora. The majority of MRSA infections come from the patient or relatives. It's just that bashing the NHS is a popular pastime at the moment so lets blame it all on the doctors and nurses! You would struggle to prove that the infection came from the Doc.

 

If you think that gel stuff stings your hands try using it all day every day! nurses with cracked open sores on their hands aren't too handy (so to speak)

 

Would agree with the above on standards though, not a patch on what they were when I started out 20 years ago, but a lot of that comes down to budgets for cleaning. My A/E department gets cleaned once a day, you can imagine what state it's in by the end of a saturday night!

 

but if a relative told me to wash my hands, when I had already done them but they hadn't seen me I would probably put them right.

[Rich44]

Except you are supposed to wash them in full view of the patient so they KNOW you have done it.

 

As for the MRSA comments thanks for you vexatious comments on that it really helped and added to the thread!

 

If you read the thread properly you would have seen that the MRSA was the straw that broke the camels back -

Made incontinent by negligence

Left peeing blood by a surgeon who made the hole too big

first time the fitted a cathetar which was too small and didnt work

refused to send the nurse out to change the dressings despite the fact she cannot do so on her own as she has a small football sized hernia again that the NHS have refused to operate on

Dr who had walked from his car and failed to wash his hands despite having medical students with him

 

Perhaps you think the fact that she has as yet been unable to see her 3 week old grandson because of all of this is just tough eh???

 

Have you even bothered to ask what treatment she has received for the MRSA infection?? NONE they just give her new dressings for the wound but NO other treatment, no wonder in 4 months it hasnt cleared up!!!

 

My heart bleeds for you, really it does for the hand wash. I have to say when Cheryl was in maternity I washed my hands with the alcohol gel whenever I enterred and left following the HUGE signs saying to do so and in the 3 weeks she was in there I NEVER saw another person do so even the staff.

 

I have to also say the gel at the hospital DIDNT hurt my hands at all its just the Matron stuff the MiL has been given, also I was told by the midwives that the alcohol gel is unnecessary anyway as soap is just as effective the gel is just so you dont need a sink or water AND the staff that came in at the hospital never used the gel they did however use the gentle handwash in the room so you dont need to use the alcohol gel all the time and if its that bad then I suggest you find another type or try another job.

[moggy1968]

well that seems to have stired you up a bit! Actually the comments on MRSA arn't vexatious, it's science fact rather than media fiction. I don't have a problem with my hands, a lot of staff do, and we're short of nurses enough without laying more off just because the hospital won't buy decent soap!

[JonCris]

I see it's all the fault of the media. That being the case can someone tell me how come many fewer patients where subject to hospital acquired infections only a few years ago

[moggy1968]

They weren't! It's just that now we have some particularly nasty resistant strains, due in part to the overuse of antibiotics.

Also NHS bashing is now a more popular media sport than it used to be so wheras previously it didn't get reported.