Slightly O/T, but really need help please.

[1stlifeline]

I know this is slightly of topic as its not really debt related but Im hoping there may be someone who can advise me.

 

The situation is- my mum is in a residential/nursing home. She has her own home which we have been looking after since she went into care. It is empty but we are keeping up the insurance and bills etc as well as keeping it heated over the winter months.

 

Because she has her own home the family are responsible for the fees for her care and we have agreed a deferred payment scheme with the council whereby on her death and the sale of the house we pay back the fees for her care.

 

Now the problem- mum has dementia and so cannot deal with her affairs and we did not get power of attourney before she had her stroke. We didnt think it was a problem as we had arranged the deffered payment for her fees and we could manage the upkeep of her house. However a few weeks ago we hjad a meeting with the Pension Service (at thier request) who wanted all the details of her bank accounts/ savings etc. We gave them all this information along with all the paperwork.

The thing is that they said we HAD to apply for Court of Protection. this costs a few hundred pounds which we didnt have spare but we have done it. My brother is waiting for it to be finalised at the moment. The Pension Service said we HAVE to sell her home asap otherwise the court of protection can force the sale.

 

What I dont understand is why they can force us to seel the house. We are not claiming anything and we have agreed to repay the fees for her care to the council. My way of looking at it is that we are going to be paying over £20,000 a year for her care (dont get me wrong, its worth every penny for her to be comfortable) We know because of other illnesses that she has that she isnt expected to live for more than the next few months so this is upsetting enough without being told we have to empty her house and put it up for sale. It feels so wrong, I will pass it every day on my way to work and see a for sale sign outside what to my mind is still mums real home. There is also the financial side of it. If we sell the house straight away and go for what the pension service lady said would be great 'a quick sale' then straight away we lose out. I know this sounds like greed and Im trying so hard to explain that it isnt. Its the point that my parents worked so hard to pay for that house so they would have it to leave to the family (dad died 3 years ago) they would be distraught if they knew what was happening. We fully agree that we must pay for the care but my argument is that in 12 months time the house may be worth 15 to 20 thousand more than today. I feel we should keep it as long as possible. I also feel that when mum does pass away she should be brought 'home' for her funeral to leave from the house. It dosnt feel right to be selling the home before she dies.

 

I would appreciate anyones help/comments on this even if it only means I need someone to tell me im not looking at it logically. My brother feels we should sell asap just so we dont have to mow the lawn etc but to me its still my mums real home.

Sorry for the long post, I have talked to the rest of the family but would like an unbiased veiw and also to know if we really can be forced to sell.

Thanks

[alibobsy]

If they have asked for sight of savings income etc and are pushing for the house sale, then this isn't just for a claim to the basic Retirement pension. She must have a claim in for pensioner credit(the pensioner equivalent of income support). I would have thought if you refuse to sell all they could do is disallow her the income part of her claim, she would still be due any basic pension she had qualified for ie from her/her late husband? (not sure of the situation here). Can you root out any benefit paper work she has and post what benefits she receives/claims?

ali x

[alibobsy]

BTW just reread your OP and I think the pension service contacted you to claim the pensioner credit. The government are pushing for all pensioners to be "encouraged" to claim this. If you do not claim any income related benefits and pay for your mums fees and everything privately they can't ask for the house to be sold.

ali x

[johnhowell]

1stlifeline,

 

Sadly, this is what happens when someone becomes mentally incapable and has not set up an Enduring Power of Attorney (normal PoA would not cover this case). EPoA becomes Lasting PoA later this year, slighty different rules in setting it up.

 

The Court of Protection (now the Public Guardianship Office) should have been involved as soon as your mum became incapable of looking after herself.

 

In essence the CoP become your mum's Attorney, but they charge you, as next of kin, to actually carry out the necessary work - like selling the house, buying shopping for your mum, etc. The agreement with the local authority probably will not stand now the the CoP are involved.

 

Friends of mine found that the CoP were very difficult to deal with, and had to pay the CoP £100's each year for the privilege. They were charged with maintaining the bank account with enough money to pay for the care home and each time it fell below this value they had to fill out a 40 page application form. Keep a copy of the first form, so you can fill out the following ones!

 

Good luck,

John

[gizmo111]

Have a read here but the main thing that sticks out is this paragraph,

 

Does the person's home have to be sold?

If the person with dementia owns their home, it may be counted as capital and may have to be sold to meet the cost of care home fees. If the home is not sold within a certain period of time, the local authority can put a legal charge on it and claim back what is owed when the house is sold. However, there is a period of 12 weeks' grace after the person decides to become a permanent resident at a home when the value of the house is not taken into account.

If the person does not wish to sell their home, or is having difficulties selling it, the local authority may offer a deferred payments scheme. This provides an interest-free loan to cover the amount needed for the care home fees, which is paid back when the person's home is eventually sold.

 

I don't understand why they are insisiting that you sell the house, as I agree it should be there whilst your mum is still alive. I have just been through this with my parents, and know how it feels all wrong to be disposing of their life, whist they are still here.

 

Take Care.

[1stlifeline]

Thank you all for the replies. She does get Pension Credits, about £6 a week. I did ask them to stop paying them but they said they could not do this. Does this mean we are forced to sell the house straight away then?

[1stlifeline]

Thanks Gizmo, just seen your reply after i psted the thanks. We have the deferred payment in place and its not the people we owe the fees to that are saying we should sell. This has come from the pension service. As a family we are all making it a priority to see mum is cared for and Ok but it just bugs me that complete strangers can tell us what to do with our family property.

[demon_x_slash]

You may find this interesting: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nhs/2929-nhs-social-services-should.html?highlight=nursing#post17586

 

It contains the following link: NHS funded Continuing Care and the Coughlan case

 

If you want to fight this for (sadly, and you have my sympathies) at least the next few months, you could try and use this to delay things.

[alibobsy]

If it is only the pension service pushing for the sale you could write to them and advise you will not be selling the house and ask them to take it into account as capital against her pensioner credit which will disallow it or write and state you are withdrawing the claim to pensioner credit and wish to only claim the basic state pension alone. Do they accept you (or another family member) as acting for your mother if not they may moan about any withdrawal letter not being signed by the customer or "official representative". Be aware either of these actions may well end up with you facing an overpayment of benefit, which @ £6 a week may not be much unless she has been paid for years and years?

good luck

ali x

[1stlifeline]

Thats the thing Ali, they wont accept a letter from us as they say we cant do it on mums behalf. They are the ones forcing us to go down the C of P route and sell the house.