demonlady -v- HSBC - Court date set

[demonlady]

Hello everyone

This is my first post. I have been reading with much interest about all the cases going on against HSBC and therefore kinda pushed my husband into claiming all his bank charges back from them. I hope he'll thank me for it in the end but basically I'm doing it for him and want to make sure everything I've done is right as I've just had a mild panic as I notice many people sent copies of the charges they have claimed to the court, HSBC and DG. I didn't get him to do that until this week (along with one of your wonderful letters saying sure DG would like to avoid going to court, etc).

 

Here is a quick breakdown of what's happened so far (hubby did all the phone calls ):

 

1. 11th Feb 07 - Letter to HSBC requesting all charges returned. Total was £2,498.75 plus interest of £377.57 (used your lovely online form for calculating that) amounting to £2,876.32. Gave them 14 days.

2. 20th Feb 07 - Letter to HSBC reminding them they had less than 7 days to reply and what the claim was for.

3. 21st Feb 07 - Received letter from Colin Langdale saying he will investigate the matter and respond.

4. Tried to call Colin Langdale repeatedly and fed up being left on hold. Tried a final time on 7th Mar 07 and was left on hold for 32 minutes and still not got through. Tried to reach own branch in Staines and number directed to a call centre in Malta where no-one could help. Issued MCOL for charges, interest and £120 fees now coming to £2,996.32. Also charging 63p per day in interest from this point until settlement.

5. Received Notice of Issue and copy of Claim Form saying it was issued on 8th Mar 07 and would be deemed to have been served on 13th March. HSBC had until 27th Mar 07 to reply.

6. Letter from HSBC, Colin Langdale again, on 16 Mar 07 saying not fully completed his investigations, would have a full response by 14 Apr 07.

7. Acknowledgment of Service by DG dated 16 Mar 07. Intend to defend all of the claim.

8. Watched MCOL and on 11th April hit the Judgment button and it all went through!!:grin:

9. Notice of Judgment Rejected came through the post a few days later, dated 11th Apr 07 saying "case status is set" :o.

10. Notice of Transfer of Proceedings dated 11th Apr 07 arrived saying a defence to this claim has been filed. Transferred to Guildford County Court. The filing of an Allocation Questionnaire was dispensed with unless District Judge at the court orders otherwise.

 

Defence from DG was:

 

"1. The Claimants account is governed by the Defendants personal and/or business banking terms and conditions.

2. Pursuant to the Defendants terms and conditions the Defendant is entitled to make a charge for its services as set out in the Defendants price list, including an overdraft review fee for considering whether to provide and providing and overdraft. (their spelling mistake! ..lots of '?' instead of apostrophies too!)

3. The Defendant denies that the charges applied to the Claimants account amount to penalties at common law and/or unfair contract terms for the purposes of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (UTCCRs).

4. The charges applied to the Claimants account are reasonable and are properly and fully disclosed in the Defendants terms and conditions and published price list. The charges represent the contractually agreed price for the services provided and the UTCCRs are not applicable to them; alternatively, they are not unfair contrary to the UTCCRs. Further, the charges are not default charges and, accordingly, cannot amount to a penalty.

5. Save as set out above, each and every allegation made by the Claimant is denied. For the reasons set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief."

 

11. Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track from Guildford County Court received, dated 17 Apr 07 with hearing date of 10.30am on 14th June 2007. Bundles to be sent to both sides at least 14 days beforehand.

12. Letter to DG Solicitors, 18th Apr 07, quoting claim number, court date, etc, (letter that you suggest) stating "..mindful of the vast number of claims..." and asking for £2,996.32 + £100 Allocation Fee plus interest at £27.09 totalling £3,123.41 to be paid by cheque in full and final settlement.

13. Tried to call DG but no response. Hubby refused to leave a message on their voicemail.

 

So, minor panic...ok, MAJOR PANIC...do you think hubby will get any kind of offer or will he end up going to court?

 

I'm so encouraged by all the support and help everyone on this forum has given each other that I thought I'd join and see if I've done the right thing for my fella.

 

Like most people here, a lot of his charges built up by going over his overdraft and being charged penalty fees on top of one another, often £100-200 per month when it would have cost them nothing for him to go about £20 over his overdraft to pay the Direct Debit in the first place rather than than charge £25 refusal fee and £30 for going over the overdraft! They also let him go over it a number of times, paying the amounts then charging him £10 for 'misuse of card' then bumping the charges on top after a few days!!

 

Any advice/help anyone can give I would very much appreciate.

 

Sorry for such a long-winded first post....phew....

 

Sorry, just realised I put this in intro section..I'm such a daft bat! Can it be moved?

[Guest louis wu]

Hello,

 

Nice story, you've done well, and at the last stages now.

 

As to court, well, They wont want to sit in front of a judge and disclose how much it actually costs them when we go overdrawn, so its extremely unlikely you will get there.

 

Usually they settle any time now, but it could go as far as the court room steps (unbelievable isn't it:rolleyes:).

 

I couldn't see any major errors in your post, so I don't think you've got any suprises coming. To tell you the truth, I think their so overwhelmed by claims that you could sign your letters Mickey Mouse and they wouldn't notice.

 

Have a look in the HSBC forum and look at all the successes, that should help you relax and look forward to all your lovely money back.

 

Keep us informed.

 

Louis

[demonlady]

Thanks Louis! I feel better already I have posted this in the wrong bit though. Will it be moved to the right HSBC section?

[Guest louis wu]

It may get picked up, but I will PM a mod for you, it should be moved within 24 hours

 

Louis

[demonlady]

Thanks again Louis. I feel so daft!

[Guest louis wu]

Heh, we all have our moments, me more than most. PM'd a request for you now.

 

Your not daft, after all, how many people have done what you've done and taken on the banks....well worth a virtual pat on the back;) as far as I'm concerned:D

 

louis

[demonlady]

Hi folks

 

Well, as you'll see from the "Demonlady -v- HSBC - Court Date Set!" thread, we have finally received a full offer of payment, including all Court fees and interest

 

Anyone have any idea how long between acceptance of the offer and payment? We've requested a cheque so we are hoping for settlement within 14 days of DG getting the letter saying we accept (which was sent by Recorded Delivery on Friday, 25th May).

 

The Court date is on 14th June 2007 so we are hoping for settlement before 7th June (final date you can say cancel the action).

 

Any ideas of timescales would be great

 

Thanks everyone

[pinkduchess]

hiya demon

 

only from reading other threads I think its about 10 days

 

and congrats on your win

[demonlady]

Hi folks

 

Well, hubby won his money back but despite asking for a cheque, DG insist they have to pay into his HSBC account because the money is 'an adjustment and therefore will be made direct to your account" on or before 12th June 2007.

 

HSBC have refused to close the account due to the overdraft and an associated loan payment. He's not paying into the account because of all this but they are drawing their full loan payment every month (he has CCCS involved now but HSBC still refuse to do anything or even acknowledge letters).

 

Anyone know if he can quote CCCS (Consumer Credit Counselling Service) and stop the money just disappearing into the account to start racking up the overdraft all over again?

 

If the account stays open, can he just draw as much of the money out up to his overdraft limit again?

 

It seems a kind of no-win here but if the account can be closed after the payment, it's a good thing.

 

Appreciate any thoughts. I know it's a complicated one

 

DL

[jowalshy]

Hi folks

 

Well, hubby won his money back but despite asking for a cheque, DG insist they have to pay into his HSBC account because the money is 'an adjustment and therefore will be made direct to your account" on or before 12th June 2007.

 

 

 

DL

 

 

what a load of @@@"""". It is your money. Other people have got cheques. why can't you.

[demonlady]

Apparently because there is an outstanding overdraft which is being dealt with by another means!

 

Do you think I can push for a cheque?

 

Really angry now

[Castlebest]

Demon as Jo says its your money you should get it back how you want it.

 

pete

[demonlady]

Do you guys know of anyone on here who has had an overdraft they haven't repaid, claimed and yet not had money paid into the account? I've trawled like mad and can't see any exact examples. It would be really great to have! What a nightmare :?

[demonlady]

Folks

Another quick thread to see who has managed to get a settlement from DG/HSBC via a cheque when they have an outstanding overdraft.

 

Anyone help?

Thanks

DL

[Catlover64]

Hi - I have heard of people being paid out by cheque, even with an overdraft. But - that was back in the day. Don't know if they'll do it nowthough - I think it's unlikely. No harm in asking though. If you don't ask, you don't get!

 

Myself - if I am lucky enough to win, intend to ask HSBC to pay off the overdraft and send the rest to me by cheque or bank transfer...

[demonlady]

Hi everyone

 

Just thought this might be of interest.

 

Hubby won his Claim for charges (all info in the 'winning' thread) and the money was refunded to his HSBC account.

 

The amount was paid in under the description of "Refund of Charges". Interesting considering HSBC have been trying to say the money has been taken as an 'arrangement fee' recently.

 

You never know how this may be useful for ongoing claims. If they deny the amounts are 'charges', why would they refund them under this title?!

 

Good luck to anyone still waiting for their payout. Don't give up!

[freakyleaky]

Congrats to your hubby!

 

Thats a good point about the wording of the refund!

[demonlady]

Hi everyone

Another HSBC woe I'm afraid. Hubby can't get the interest/charges stopped on his accounts so that he can pay off the debt via Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS) under the Debt Management Plan (DMP) they have running for him which has been so since April 2007. Payments regularly go in to HSBC but they just say they are not enough but continue to send documents recommending CCCS to speak to (highlighted that and sent it back to them) and continually charging for unpaid standing orders between two accounts knowing full well that they won't be covered so every month in his current account £33 is paid in by CCCS and they charge £33+ interest and 2 x £25 returned s/o fees! What hope does he have?

 

We tried to cancel those S/O immediately online and by writing to them as they are 'internal' ones but we can't stop them and HSBC refuse to. It's entrapment surely when you know someone can't pay but you keep charging anyway.

 

On 4th October after hundreds of letters and getting nowhere, he received a letter stating that if the accounts were passed to debt collection, interest and charges would be frozen and he could pay off the debt. They also stated "Unfortunately, your monthly repayment offer would not be sufficient to cover the amount of debit interest that would be applied to your account. Therefore your debt would be ever increasing, which the bank does not consider to be responsible lending.” Sounds sensible so why, over 2 months later, are they still charging interest and adding charges and have done nothing further other than write to him again on 15th October 2007 saying "We are unable to freeze interest and commission charges or prevent further action being taken." Please, please TAKE FURTHER ACTION and stop this.

 

Has anyone else gone through this? The debt has increased to a ridiculous amount with their interest and charges as he has a current account/flexaccount/loan account and they keep trying to make these s/o payments between them despite different amounts being paid in by CCCS for each account, in accordance with the DMP which is in place.

 

Any advice would be great.

 

Thank you everyone.

[Castlebest]

Hiya Demon , Considering they are "the listening bank" HSBC are notoriously deaf when it comes to actually helping its customers... .

 

I think the first thing you need to do is sort out exactly what the debt consists of, what part of this money is due to your spending and what is due to HSBC's charges and interest. Then start a claim to recover the charges and interest which are due to HSBC's stupidity.

 

This should substantially reduce the amount you owe them and help you pay off anything that is outstanding through your CCCS and should also help you to control the DCA (who have they passed it to, Metropolitan?).

 

Heres the "how to" thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/25457-guide-reclaiming-bank-charges.html

 

Any questions you have just post them here and we will help you

 

pete

[demonlady]

Thanks Castlebest. We can't go through the reclaiming charges route again at this point (did it already successfully earlier this year) as HSBC now state until the investigation that has commenced into this has been resolved, all pending claims are being put on hold. Is anyone actually having their claim paid still by DG at this point?

 

HSBC stated "In regards to your comments concerning reclaiming the fees that have been already applied to your account. Please be advised that on 27th July 2007 an investigation was commenced by the Office of Fair Trading into charges imposed by major financial institutions. This investigation is likely to last at least 12 months and during the investigation we will not consider a request to refund historically applied charges, until the outcome has been confirmed. As a result we will not be dealing with or resolving customer complaints on overdraft charges while the test case is running. Instead customer's claims or complaints will be logged on a new register pending the outcome of the case."

 

Also, they have not yet passed the accounts to any debt collection agency, hence hubby is still having charges and interest applied. They are certainly not 'responsible lenders' as they state they are when they are increasing someones debt to a ridiculous level.

 

Any further thoughts?

[demonlady]

Hi folks

I seem to have lost the link to the very useful interest calculator that was on this site. It was the one that calculated interest owed from the original charge date to today. Could someone post the link to me please?

 

Thank you

[Castlebest]

Right well thats no problem then.. Here's what I would do

 

First get yourself a new bank account and transfer all of your day to day finances (wages/benefits direct debits standing orders etc)to it, heres a thread that tells you the basic accounts that are available.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/13832-do-you-need-parachute.html

 

next put a new claim together for all of the charges HSBC have deducted since your last claim and send it in to them, prelim letter and LBA at least, weather they look at it or not it will register that you dispute the balance of the account and stop them passing the account to a DCA.

 

Send HSBC the monthly amount you have told them you can afford but apart from that abandon your HSBC account until the outcome of the test case or until they are willing to be sensible.

 

At least by doing this it will stop them from removing your money that you need to live on from your account and if they try to recover the debt you can just confirm its in dispute (or even better the subject of litigation if you can afford to put your new claim into the County Courts).

 

Interest calculator - can someone give me the link please?

 

That sounds like the calculator from Money Saving Expert web site which is very useful but I would recomend you use one of the spreadsheets from the templates library here so you dont loose your calculations and know where you got your figures from

 

pete

[Castlebest]

See your other thread

 

pete

[demonlady]

Hi Pete

Hubby has another account with Lloyds already. He is attempting to pay off the debt as per CCCS advice. I am wondering if he should ask CCCS to stop paying HSBC altogether until they put it in the hands of debt collection. However, he is concerned it will be deemed that he isn't trying if he doesn't continue the payments.

It's a tough one but the debt is just going up and up. Last month they charged him £75 for charges and £33 interest and CCCS only put £33 into that account! You can see the problem...

Just don't know what to do.

[Castlebest]

The charges are unlawful so sooner or later you will get them back together with the interest the charges alone attracted so I wouldnt worry about it.

 

I would try to stay away from DCA's if you can they, generaly employ some nasty tactics to frighten you into paying and turn your life into a nightmare.

 

Just keep paying the sum you have told them you will pay and basicaly do what they are doing... put everything on hold untill the outcome of the test case.

 

pete