My Mortgage Fees Were Refunded!!!!!!!!

[dashngail]

Hi

We sent our second letter to Mortgages PLC, today we have received a response, we are really confused at what our next step should be.

 

They have sent a letter stating that we agreed that the beginning of the mortgage to pay a 6% redemption charge if it was settled before 2 years.

The last paragraph states this is not their final response yet they are not offering anything.

 

Our dilemma now is the 14 days are up at the end of next week should we just go ahead and issue summons for small claims or do we reply to this letter challenging the disproportionate ammount charged. Or can we even issue the small claim when they are offering to talk more even though they are not offering a way forward. It seems to us that they are using delay tactics.

 

Within in the letter it is mentioned that in January 05 our mortgage was in arrears ( for about 4 weeks no more) and that when this happens manual work has to be done. This to us is nonsense in regard to the redemption charges we are talking about.

 

 

Any help offered would be most gratefully accepted.

 

Thanks

Dashngail

[thunderpuss2k]

Our dilemma now is the 14 days are up at the end of next week should we just go ahead and issue summons for small claims or do we reply to this letter challenging the disproportionate ammount charged. Or can we even issue the small claim when they are offering to talk more even though they are not offering a way forward. It seems to us that they are using delay tactics.

 

Which 14 days? I assume you sent a preliminary request, to which they responded? Or is this in response to the letter before action? Either way, if you can explain what you've done so far it'd be helpful.

 

Within in the letter it is mentioned that in January 05 our mortgage was in arrears ( for about 4 weeks no more) and that when this happens manual work has to be done. This to us is nonsense in regard to the redemption charges we are talking about.

 

You're right, nothing to do with it. I'd take any arrears fees, late payment fees, etc and deal with it separately.

[dashngail]

Hi

Sorry didn't make ourselves clear in previous post

We sent to preliminary letter giving 14 days to respond. There reply to this was to send us a copy of our orginal contract pointing out that we had agreed to the 6% redemtion charge.

 

We then sent the second letter giving them a further 14 days consideration before action.

 

In there reply that draw our attention to the Special Mortgage Condition 147 Redemption Charges.

"the borrower (you) may repay the secured ammounts in whole or part on any business day, provided that in each case where such payment occur on or prior to the third anniverary of completion the borrowere shall pay to the company an administration fee equal to 6% of the capital balance amount being repaid.

Where such repayments occur after the 3rd anniversary after completion the borrowere shall pay to the company an administration equal to ones months interest on the amount repaid at the rate of interest applicable to the mortgage on the mortgage on that date of such repayment. This administration fee shall not apply where one calender month written notice is given"

 

It then goes on to say we should have brought this matter up at the time, then onto mortgage arrears (which we havn't mentioned in any correspondence)

They also ask why we didn't bring it up when we completed the mortgage.

 

Another point in the letter states they presume we completed this mortgage to get a lower rate with another company therefore they don't beleive we have been financially dissadvantaged by redeem our mortgage, in actual fact the mortgage we now have costs more, but we had to redeem for other reasons.

 

They have also sent us another breakdown of the completion statement, which clearly says

Early Repayment Charge £3,490.13

Redemption Admin Charge £ 134.

 

Even though they have sent this epic without making any offer of refund, the next to last paragraph says they hope it will not become neccessary to commence proceedings. The last paragraph is the one which says please note this is not my final response and gives us until Sept 7th to respond.

 

Are they buying time or does anyone think we should go ahead with our claim in small claims, or should we reply asking them to send us a breakdown of manual costs relating to the early repayment charge

 

We can scan the letter on privately if anyone thinks they need to read more

 

Sorry this message is a bit like war and peace, but we don't want the final 14 days to elapse and us not be ready for war.

 

Thanks

Dashngail

[norvernrob]

Well firstly, even if you did redeem the mortgage to move to a better rate, that has nothing to do with them. charging you a £3500 redemption fee sounds like they are putting you at a financial disadvantage to me! Our argument though is the same principle as the bank charges - penalty charges shouldn't be more than the actual costs incurred, so did it cost them £3500 to actually administer your mortgage settlement? It's untested as yet and opinions seem to be split as to whether this does apply exactly the same as bank charges.

 

As they haven't given a final answer though and seem to possibly be receptive to negotiation, what I would do now is send them another letter, saying you will hold off on starting proceedings for another 14 days - providing they enter into genuine talks about reimbursing you. You could also add a couple of paragraphs from the OFT statement about penalties that someone else has used within this sub-forum, and ask for a breakdown of charges.

[dashngail]

Hi. thanks for the reply.

Here's something we've worked up to send, opinions anyone!

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated 14th July 2006, we have read its contents thoroughly.

We have only recently been made aware of the legal precedent and recommendations to financial institutions by the Office of Fair Trading, which were detailed in our previous letters. This information, relates specifically to unfairly disproportionate charges and fees levied by banks and financial institutions in relation to its customers. Furthermore these recommendations allow for retroactive claims for charges made within the last six years. Had we been aware of this at the time the mortgage was redeemed, then they would have been contested.

In this particular instance we feel the redemption charge levied against our account for the completion of the mortgage, does not accurately reflect the actual cost of work involved to redeem this contract, nor, as you letter implies, the administration of the account. You will note from the completion statement with which you have kindly furnished us, that an amount of £134.00 was also levied on our account for ‘Redemption Administration Charge’, you will kindly note that we not attempting to contest this charge and feel this is fair and justified.

We would like to correct your assumption that this mortgage was redeemed in order that we could benefit from a more favourable rate of interest with another lender, in actual fact this was done for entirely different reasons and we are in fact paying more per month to our current lender. Although this has little or no bearing on the matter under discussion, we feel it is important to make this correction.

We accept your statement regarding the arrears which occurred on the account in January 2005, and that some direct manual intervention was required at that point, and as a result were charged £413.00 in administration charges, as detailed in the redemption statement you have kindly sent us.

We are not disputing in any way that the mortgage account was redeemed at the time your letter states, nor are we disputing any of the dates, term lengths or interest percentage rates stated, these are clearly stated in your documentation. However we are somewhat confused by the statement implied in your letter that your charges “compensate us for the cost of administering your mortgage account effectively”, surely once a mortgage account passes its initial period, a redemption charges is no longer applicable, what vehicle exists to compensate you at this point?

As we have stated above, our dispute in this matter is directly related to the actual cost involved in redeeming the mortgage account, and how this actual cost relates to the amount charged.

Therefore we would be pleased to receive from yourselves a breakdown, in form of a receipt, detailing the minutiae of the £3490.13 charge and how that charge has been reached, including cost of man hours, office supplies, telephone calls, etc. We would also be pleased if you would process and send us this information before the 24th July 2006, as this is the deadline we have set within our previous letters, and at which time we shall commence with County Court proceeding against you.

Alternatively, we would be pleased to receive reimbursement of the redemption charges in the form of a cheque or an undertaking from yourselves that payment will be forthcoming. Please note that any payment in the form of a cheque should be made solely in the name of ‘xxxxxxx' as no joint bank account exists.

Furthermore, we are willing to enter in further meaningful dialogue with yourselves in an effort to settle this matter amicably, any such expression should, again, be made by letter before 24th July 2006.

Please note we are resolute in our stance, and would advise that this matter not be treated lightly.

Thanks

Dashngail

[maroonfox5]

Seems to me as these mortgage companies "Dress up" the title of what is in effect an early "redemption penalty"to suit themselves ,and call them:-

 

Administation fee

 

Early repayment charge

 

Mortgage exit fee

 

"Mortgage redemption administration exit repayment fee!!!!!!!" .

 

But the fact of the matter remains that this charge whatever it is called is still no more than a "PENALTY" and in essence this is our point of arguament.I don't see how they can prove otherwise ,and not only that,but be prepared to go to court to defend the point.

 

I think that anyone here has a great chance of getting this charge back.

 

Regards

 

MF5

[maroonfox5]

Dashngail,

 

I think your letter is excellent ,it's to the point and also eloquant ,polite but you have come across as no pushover.

Good Luck on this one.

I'm watching with interest.

Regards

 

MF5

[chrismc]

Looks good dashnail....to the point and not to flowery!!

[misslilly]

I am completly new to this and would appreciate any help in what I need to do to get started. In brief, sold house in Jan 2006 after 18 months and had to pay over £5k redemption penalty to GMAC. I've read about the Data Protection Act forms do I need to send request this first or can I go straight in with the letter asking for my money back? Many thanks!

[dashngail]

Hi Misslilly

 

We sent our preliminary letter off a couple of weeks ago. We had the orginal mortgage offer which has all the interest rates included. ( you wont need the orginal offer to send the first letters, but you will need these if you have to go to small claims). When sending the first couple of letters when claiming redemtion you should only need to quote the amount you have been charged.

 

If you have a look through this thread there are a couple (including ours) templates you could use.

 

As I said the template for the letter we have sent are on this thread but if you can't find them just e-mail us privately asking for copies.

 

Let me know how things go!

Dashngail

[MortgageMan]

I have just sent a letter based on what you chaps have drafted out to Preferred Mortgages requesting return of £2669, this was a house I sold in 2004. I will wait then go after them for all the excess charges, Has any one else gone after Preferred

Trevor

[paddym]

hi all im redeeming a mortgage with preferred this friday 21 july 06 they are charging me £6700 letting it go thru then going after them please keep us up to date on how u progress good luck mate !

paddy

[misslilly]

Hi Dashngail

 

Thanks for your reply. Went through my stuff yesterday and for some reason I've lost loads of paperwork. Only seem to have the letters they sent referring to interest rate rises and the end of our discount period! Can't even find the letter showing the amount left to pay and the redemption fee! I do have a copy of the original offer letter though, so I hope this will be enough?

 

I think I'll contact my solicitors to see if they have a copy of the final invoice which will show how much the redemption fee was! Not doing to well really am I?

 

Am I able to request copies of this information from the mortgage company?

[dashngail]

Misslilly

Yes you can request the info from your mortgage company under the Data Protection Act (letter in in the library section). It will probably cost you £10 and you have to give them 40 day to do it though. It might be quicker all round if you could get the full figures from your solicitors.

Good luck with your search

Dashngail

[boltonangel]

i sent a 1st letter to abbey to request my £2000 early redemption charges incurred by leavin my fixed rate 2 years early for a better rate back, and they wrote back with a flat no.

 

what should i do now - if anything??!

 

sarah

[dashngail]

Help and advise needed before Tuesday if possible.

We at the point where we need to prepare our moneyclaim for mortgage redemption.

We have read the wording for claiming bank charges through court, but need to know what wording we need to change if anything for claiming redemption charges.

This is quite urgent as our previous mortgage provider has only until the 26th to make an offer, so we would like to prepare our summons so that we are ready to go at the exact time we have given them.

Help please someon

Thanks

Dashngail

[dashngail]

Here's a copy of what we have put together from the templates. It is what we think we should put on our moneyclaim form for redemption charges

Comments anyone

Thanks

Dashngail

 

We had a contract with the defendant mortgage provider July 04 and which was conducted on their standard terms and conditions. We are claiming the return of money taken by the defendant in the way of redemption penalty charges in Oct 05. The defendants charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15.

We have repeatedly asked the defendent to justify their charges but they have declined to do so.

[gizmo111]

Here's a copy of what we have put together from the templates. It is what we think we should put on our moneyclaim form for redemption charges

Comments anyone

Thanks

Dashngail

 

We had a contract with the defendant mortgage provider July 04 and which was conducted on their standard terms and conditions. We are claiming the return of money taken by the defendant in the way of redemption penalty charges in Oct 05. The defendants charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15.

We have repeatedly asked the defendent to justify their charges but they have declined to do so.

 

Seems ok to me, but I think you may need to ask someone who has better knowledge, alanfromderby seems to be up on mortgage comapanies.

[zootscoot]

I would leave out the bit about S. 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act. This only applies where the cost of the provision of the service was not agreed at the time the contract was entered into. Whereas the cost of redemption fees are generally written into the contract when you take them out.

[zootscoot]

We entered a contract with the defendant mortgage provider in July 04 which was conducted on their standard terms and conditions. We are claiming the return of money taken by the defendant in the way of a redemption penalty charge in Oct 05. This charge relates to our breach of contract in that we terminated the contract before the agreed period. The defendant's charges for our breach are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law as establshed in Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 and affirmed in Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). [ delete In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15.delete]

We have repeatedly asked the defendant to justify their charges but they have declined to do so.

[ruare]

Sorry for jumping in. I have a Kensington morgage tied for 3 years with 18 months to go since Jan 2005. Its costing me a fortune on repayments [8.8%]. I would like to get out. Can I request removal of the condition [early redemption fee of £9713.40] before sourcing for another provider.

 

Please advice.

 

Ruare

 

 

Citicards Data Protection Act sent 15.6.06

2 A&L card DPA sent 15.6.06

2 Barclaycard sent 15.6.06

RBS Platinum – payment request 11.7.06 £170

BOS Union card – final payment request 15.7.06 £290

2 Barclays current accounts – payment request 13.7.06 £1155+£1355

[zootscoot]

Probably too soon to say. As of yet, the mortgage territory is relatively untested.You can certainly try to negotiate with Kensington, although I'm not sure they are the negotiating type! Until you have paid up the money you can not actually take them to court. So if the negotiations don't work, it may be worth watching the site to see if its worth risking paying up then reclaiming.

[ruare]

Thank you for the reply

I'll hold on for now.

 

Citicards DPA sent 15.6.06

A&L card DPA sent 15.6.06

2 Barclaycard sent 15.6.06

RBS Platinum – payment request 11.7.06 £170

BOS Union card – final payment request 15.7.06 £290

2 Barclays current accounts – payment request 13.7.06 £1155+£1355

[MortgageMan]

Hi Ruare

Kensington are a hard lot as a matter of interest they were the first mortgage company to specialise in what is know as sub prime mortgages meaning people with poor credit histories or self employed with no proof of income. One thing you could do which they dont advertise (by the way I am a mortgage broker) is go back to them they now have some good deals as they are trying to go up market. That way you will not pay a redemption fee and could get a good rate. While I am on this another thing they will do is if you redeem a mortgage with them because you are moving take out a new mortgage with them and they will refund the redemption fee with in 14 days of completion. If the new mortgage is smaller they will charge a pro ratio fee. Then of course you can just move and like a lot of us sue them. Good Luck and if I can help any more shout

Trevor

[ruare]

Thanks for your advice Trevor. The reason for askings this is that I am currently have a dept repayment plan owing £70k, paying £600 a month. I have £30k deposit in the house and I am looking at remortgaging and offering my creditors around £20k among them as a final settlements. I want to avoid the early exit penalty of £9713.40. then I would end up being debt free with around the same monthly mortgage repayment, if I can get a better rate [with my credit record??]

 

Any suggestions anyone or is this too much information.

 

Ruare

 

 

 

 

Citicards DPA sent 15.6.06

A&L card DPA sent 15.6.06

2 Barclaycard sent 15.6.06

RBS Platinum – payment request 11.7.06 £170

BOS Union card – final payment request 15.7.06 £290

2 Barclays current accounts – payment request 13.7.06 £1155+£1355