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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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GOT A COURT DATE? Important, please read......


GaryH
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No mention on track, in this one page basic letter. It really is just a date and saying it will take 10mins. Without this site any normal person would be lost at that stage, it just has NO info on there or what to expect. I only know it's for 'directions' because I called the court today. Many people must be getting these around now and be as miffed as I am.

 

Many thanks..I will take the draft order and propose it to the judge.

 

In an ideal world I could do with Lloyds settling about now(prior to court)...can I do or send anything to light a spark under them and make them pay up? Post them the draft order prior to the directions hearing maybe?

 

Surely when they do not appear at the directions hearing that is going to play in my favour...and if they have no intention of showing up...does this mean I could be due a settlement letter?

 

Again Many Thanks.

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In an ideal world I could do with Lloyds settling about now(prior to court)...can I do or send anything to light a spark under them and make them pay up? Post them the draft order prior to the directions hearing maybe?

Send something like this if you wish, although I sometimes wonder if SC&M even open their post, let alone take any notice of it!! But yes, it won't hurt. Especially if you send it by fax as well.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/40192-maryt-lloyds-trying-get.html?highlight=pre-trial+review#post424100

Change the references to "pre-trial review" to "directions hearing".

Surely when they do not appear at the directions hearing that is going to play in my favour...and if they have no intention of showing up...does this mean I could be due a settlement letter?

If they don't appear then you need to ask the judge to grant judgement to you there and then - which he probably will. You may wish to take with you a spreadsheet of settled claims (litigation section) to demonstrate that Lloyds are wasting everybodies time.

 

Thats of course assuming they haven't settled beforehand, which IMHO they are quite likely to.

 

Have you got a thread btw?

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Am I being REALLY thick?

 

The OFT report we're being advised to send part of with our claims - this refers JUST to credit card accounts, right?

 

I'm about to put my claim in with regards to my personal current account and I don't understand how this particular OFT report is related to current accounts.

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It applies in principle to all default fees - as stated in the reports section 1 "overview".

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Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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This is for Elsinore in particular;

my last post I asked if anyone could tell me what Disposal was as I had had a Notice of Disposal from the court, 10 minutes allocated etc, sounds like you have had the same

It is, as I suspected, a meeting prior to Directions being given.

The following day I recieved a letter from SC+M with settlement conditions attached ' without predudice '

 

Job Done,

Thanks

Alan.

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Daz, the link is in post #188 of this thread.

:x if i have been off any help to you please click my scales

 

cases won

28th July Single Claim for bank charges against LTSB, £6,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement

 

18th July Joint Claime against LTSB £7,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement.

 

 

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***In light of recent events, it is now more important than ever that you prepare thoroughly for court and include everything you need in your bundles.***

 

It appears that some claimants are now getting a bit sloppy with regards to bundles and preparing for court. We've seen quite a few threads recently where the claimant hasn't bothered submitting anything becouse its a "waste of time".

 

Ultimately, that may well be true in most cases, but to not comply with a court order is a very dangerous game and you run the real risk of having your claim struck out. There have been 2 claims in the last week or so where this has been the case.

 

As we all know, its highly unlikely that your claim will get as far as court, but even so, you should still prepare exactly as you would if you knew it was going to - I.e. get a good, solid bundle in ON TIME, and make sure that you know your arguements. Particularly in relation to Lloyds service charge defence. Read this thread -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/81799-issues-raised-llloyds-bank.html

 

What to include in your bundle

 

Clearly this will depend to a certain extent upon which specific directions have been ordered, but, IN ADDITION to everything else which you would normally submit, you should include;

 

1) Your account T&C's. Preferably those from when the account was opened. If you haven't got them, attempt to get them from your branch or the website. This site contains Lloyds T&C's back to 1999 -

Internet Archive Wayback Machine

As well as account T&C's, you should also have a look for those applicable to cards, standing order and direct debit forms.

 

2) The full OFT report. No need to print out the whole thing, but you do need the front cover, section 1 "overview" and most importantly, section 4.21 "Disguised penalties". You should put this in INSTEAD of the OFT report summary from the Basic Bundle in the templates library.

 

Plus, the OFT report "Anayasis of Unfair Terms in Schedule 2", (particulary relevant is section's 5.8 -

http://www.crw.gov.uk/resources/utccr%20guidance-part2.pdf

 

Also, the Scots Law commission report

 

 

3) The McNamara interview. The transcript is fine.

 

4) Any correspondance or documents published by Lloyds which refers to their charges as - "Penalties", "defaults", "imposed when you breach your agreement", etc. Check your old T&C's if you have them and include anything which suggests that the charges are imposed as a result of a breach of your account agreement.

 

I have a letter in which Martin Orton states that Lloyds' charges exist - "in order that we can recoup our costs". This was in response to a direct request to justify their charges, and no mention was made in the letter of them being any sort of "service charge". Print it off from here to include in your bundles -

 

Orton letter

 

Simularly, if anyone else finds anything useful such as that, or in their old T&C's, etc, please let me have a copy so I can distribute it for others. Obviously you should block out personal details, and also I am happy to pay any postage costs if necessary.

 

5) A detailed Witness Statement, which specifically includes arguements which tackle the service charge arguement and "cloaking". See the post below.

 

When you've submitted your bundle

 

In most cases they will pay around now, but if not, and if they don't submit documents, then on the day of the deadline for submissions (which will be stated on the directions order), you should inform the court of their non-compliance immediately.

 

Send the letter here -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/58011-directions-non-compliance-letters.html

 

Also, if a court date is imminent you should have a good read of the guidance notes.

 

Court guidance notes

Hello GaryH,

 

Your link below doesn't appear to be working. I am frantically preparing my bundle for tomorrow. Is there anyway you can email me these T&Cs:

 

"1) Your account T&C's. Preferably those from when the account was opened. If you haven't got them, attempt to get them from your branch or the website. This site contains Lloyds T&C's back to 1999 -

Internet Archive Wayback Machine"

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Hello everyone,

Somebaody help please... I am frantically preparing my bundle for tomorrow and I haven't got any of my T&Cs for a current account... can somebody help by emailing me the various versions.... I would be grateful for any help?

 

Many Thanks

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Hello GaryH,

 

Your link below doesn't appear to be working. I am frantically preparing my bundle for tomorrow. Is there anyway you can email me these T&Cs:

 

I had the T&Cs for 2001 bookmarked, but on checking yesterday found the link didn't exist!! Thought Lloyds have obviously got wise and deleted their web archives. Tried again this afternoon and they are back on again. Phew! :eek:

Gracias a la vida - Thanks to life

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Gary,

Can you tell me if all this information is suitable to use in a court bundle for a business claim?

Including the witness statement.

Many thanks for your tireless work!!

Deb.

Yes - except remove all reference's to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations

Hello everyone,

Somebaody help please... I am frantically preparing my bundle for tomorrow and I haven't got any of my T&Cs for a current account... can somebody help by emailing me the various versions.... I would be grateful for any help?

 

Many Thanks

Join the queue!

 

Don't worry - get your bundle in without them. If it gets to within a couple of days of your court date and still no settlement then drop me a PM.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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I had the T&Cs for 2001 bookmarked, but on checking yesterday found the link didn't exist!! Thought Lloyds have obviously got wise and deleted their web archives. Tried again this afternoon and they are back on again. Phew! :eek:

 

Yes, it seems to be working again now - if a little slow! Might be getting to many hits!

 

Print them off now if I were you.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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If we enclose a set of T&C's in our bundle from a date far after when the account was opened and far after the point from which we are claiming, does that matter?

e.g. Account opened 1996, T&C's enclosed from 2004

 

Will we be able to say that the fact the charges are penalties for breach of contract at that time (e.g. 2004) means they automatically were when we opened the account years previously (e.g. 1996)?

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If we enclose a set of T&C's in our bundle from a date far after when the account was opened and far after the point from which we are claiming, does that matter?

e.g. Account opened 1996, T&C's enclosed from 2004

 

Will we be able to say that the fact the charges are penalties for breach of contract at that time (e.g. 2004) means they automatically were when we opened the account years previously (e.g. 1996)?

 

 

 

Yes i would like to know that as i opened my account in 1997 and need to get t&c's from then?

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I think you will find that the Ts & Cs will be very different now to what they were then. The banks have tightened up the wording to avoid any misinterpretation so I would try and get hold of the old ones.

 

It depends how pushed you are. I had a trial date and to submit my bundle just as the Ts & Cs judgement happened. All I had was the latest copy so I put that in.

 

I've no idea whether I'll be allowed to but I figured that if I included them it would make Ts&Cs relevant to my case and I would argue that I should be allowed to introduce those Ts&Cs that were in effect if or when I get copies.

 

I just hope that common sense will prevail.

 

Probably no help but just my take on it. Obviously it would be better to have the correct ones.

Regards,

John.

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Sorry my friend, we're hardly getting any so I doubt you've got much chance!:)

Whats wrong with the wayback machine? It was fine yesterday.

 

Try asking the bank for them - 2001 shouldn't be a problem I wouldn't have thought.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Yes, actually - would you mind e-mailing it to me again? I've gone and bloomin well lost it somehow!!:rolleyes:

 

I can then add it to post #1. I've also updated it with some other new stuff in the last couple of days you may have noticed.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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